ATD2011 Bob Cole Semi: (1) Halifax Mooseheads vs. (5) Montreal AAA

[Dreakmur]

Halifax Mooseheads

Coach: Ken Hitchcock

Roster
Toe Blake (C)-Syd Howe-Ace Bailey
Gaye Stewart-Doug Weight-Eddie Oatman (A)
Jack Walker-Mike Ricci-Bobby Rousseau
Ed Sandford-Vincent Lecavalier-Pit Martin

Brad Park-Bill White
Kevin Lowe (A)-James Patrick
Gord Fraser-Bob Dailey

Martin Brodeur
Don Edwards

Spares:
Syl Apps Jr., C
Marian Gaborik, W
Lee Fogolin Jr., D
Jimmy Roberts, RW/D

1st PP Unit
Blake-Howe-Bailey
Rousseau-Park

2nd PP Unit
Stewart-Lecavalier-Oatman
Weight-Patrick

PK Forwards
Martin-Walker
Ricci-Rousseau
Howe-Bailey

PK Defensemen
Lowe-White
Park-Dailey/Fraser

Forward Minutes

name|ES|PP|SH|total
Blake|15|4|0|19+
Howe|15|4|2|21
Bailey|13|4|1.5|18.5
Stewart|11|3|0|14
Weight|11|3|0|14
Oatman|12|3|0|15
Walker|13|0|4|17
Ricci|10|0|1.5|11.5
Rousseau|12|4|2.5|18.5
Sandford|8|0|1|9
Lecavalier|10|3|0|13
Martin|8|0|1.5|9.5
total|138|28|14|180

Defensemen minutes

name|ES|PP|SH|total
Park|20|4|2.5|26.5
White|19|0|4+|23
Lowe|17|0|4+|21
Patrick|16|2|0|18
Fraser|10|0|1.5|11.5
Dailey|10|1|2|14
total|92|7|14|113

VS.

Montreal AAA

Head Coach : Vladimir Yurzinov
Ass / Goalie coach : Warren Strelow

Aurel Joliat - Stan Mikita - Didier Pitre
Jiri Holik - Marty Walsh - Reggie Leach
Marty Pavelich -Ralph Backstrom - Blair Russel
Georges Mantha - Andy Blair - Joe Lamb
Josef Malecek - Tony Amonte

Mark Howe - Ken Reardon
Lionel Hitchman - Dickie Boon
Allan Cameron - Clem Loughlin
Udo Kiessling

Ron Hextall
Chico Resch

Powerplay
Joliat - Mikita - Leach - Howe - Loughlin
Holik - Walsh - Pitre - Reardon - Boon

Penalty Kill
Pavelich - Backstrom - Hitchman - Cameron
Mantha - Russell - Boon - Reardon
Pitre - Mikita - Hitchman - Howe/Cameron
Joliat - Blair/Lamb/Backstrom - Boon - Reardon/Howe​

Click to read more...

 

[Dreakmur]

What you know about ATD?!

 

[Stoneberg]

Jack Walker will slide in to the middle, Ricci-Walker-Rousseau will be the primary match up with Park-White backing them against the Mikita line. I like Walker on Mikita and my second best defensive forward, with plenty of speed, Rousseau on Joliat. I think Ricci has the grit and determination to match up with a big boy like Pitre, speed may be a minor issue but that's what my system, defense and goaltending are for.

Also, the Mooseheads will be ok with matching their top line against the Mikita line from time to time, mainly because Bailey has been noted to agitate Joliat in the past, a trade off we would certainly take at any opportunity:

Irvin Bailey, who was the best man on the ice, started early in the game to "get" Aurel Joliat's noted "goat". And Bailey did this with such effect that the pair shared six penalties in the first period. They packed high sticks against one another throughout the tussle. Joliat was put completely off his game...

Obviously the Mikita line is Montreal's bread and butter and the Mooseheads primary concern, if they can be contained the Mooseheads should be able to control the outcome of this series. Obviously I don't expect to completely keep them off the scoreboard, that would be naive, but believe my above strategy will certainly limit the damage.

Oh and the advantage for the Mooseheads between the pipes is astronoimical, while their coaching advantage is quite large as well.

Edit: The checking line will be: Ricci-Walker-Rousseau

-with whoever is hotter on the draws between Ricci and Walker taking them.

 

[Stoneberg]

I welcome and encourage advantage to return and debate this series.

If not, I'll try and field any concerns other GMs may have with the Mooseheads.

I'll be doing some further comparisons later as well.

 

[Stoneberg]

Blake vs. Joliat

TTG
Joliat: 2, 2, 3, 5, 9, 9, 10
Blake: 2, 3, 3, 8, 10

TTA
Joliat: 3, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 10
Blake: 3, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10

TTP
Joliat: 2, 3, 5, 5, 6, 8, 8, 9, 10
Blake: 1, 3, 3, 6, 7, 9

Both players have a Hart Trophy, while Blake has two more first all star team selections and one less second team selection. It's clear that Joliat is a bit better from an offensive perspective. Joliat was small even for his day, so Blake has a size advantage, while Joliat has a speed advantage. It's difficult to quantify but I'm under the impression that these two players were of similar caliber defensively, which leads me to believe Blake has an edge in intangible qualities even though both were tenacious, tough and thought the game at a very high level... but Blake probably has an edge in all these criteria and was a great leader and long time captain.

Finally, Blake was a much better playoff performer. Leading the playoffs in points and assists in one year that his Habs team won the cup, and lead the playoffs in goals in another season the Habs won the cup. Finally, in a third cup run he lead the league in assists once again, but the Habs lost in the finals to the Leafs. All three of these great runs were as captain of the team. Joliat led the league in assists in the playoffs twice with 4 in 10 games, and 1 in 2 games. During his career Blake was over a PPG in the playoffs while Joliat is at about .5 ppg over his playoff career.

In the end I would call these two almost a wash. After factoring in the fact that this is the playoffs, I'll give a slight edge to Halifax.


Meant to do more but have to go!

 

[seventieslord]

I would also agree that Joliat and Blake are a wash. One impression I get, though, is that Blake was a player who could be intimidating physically, even mean. Whereas Joliat was just a small, scrappy guy. Certainly infuriating to play against at times, like Theoren Fleury, but no power forward.

 

[Stoneberg]

Obviously Mikita is significantly better than Howe, I'm not going to waste my time arguing that...but it doesn't make Howe a bad player by any means...so here is a bio for those who don't know about Syd Howe. http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31817000&postcount=139

Bailey vs. Pitre
I won't go in to a statistical break down because Pitre's prime was in the 1910's and I don't have them on hand. Pitre is the better offensive weapon no question, big, fast, and a great sniper in his day. However, Bailey was no offense slouch in his short career, winning a retro Art Ross and Maurice Richard in his big year. He was top 6 in points twice more, and in the top ten in assists three more times in addition to his big season in 1929.

I will, however, argue that Bailey is a better defensive forward even though Pitre played some defense. Bailey was always a hard worker and fairly tenacious forward with some agitating qualities. Bailey bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31943200&postcount=160

I have no choice but to give a slight edge to Montreal due to the brevity of Bailey's career.

Which of course results in the expected edge to Montreal in first lines.

When I decided to not pick a forward until the third round I needed a first line willing to set an example for the teams identity, which would a hard working, defensively responsible and grinding style. While I know I have one of the weaker first lines offensively, it is one of the most intangible laden and will not be fun to play against.

 

[Stoneberg]

Gaye Stewart-Doug Weight-Eddie Oatman (A) vs. Jiri Holik - Marty Walsh - Reggie Leach

Stewart is probably better than Holik, however I would love to know more about Jiri. If anyone disagrees I will look in to it more. Here's a bio LF made on the lightning-fast Gaye Stewart: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=21751128&postcount=31

While 100 picks separates them, how big is the gap between Walsh and Weight? I may be able to concede a very slight edge to Walsh based on his dominance in 70 top level games, because of a goal scoring and defensive advantage...but I always find myself questioning players with so few games at the highest level, I think it at least translates in to a consistency issue in the ATD. Weight was a speedy and gritty player as well though, and an excellent playmaker for a number of years while providing good leadership qualities on multiple teams over his career. Weight proved that he could be the primary offensive engine on a low scoring playoff team as you can see here is his bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31996051&postcount=168.

There can certainly be an argument made that Oatman is better than Leach based on seventies work in ATD's past and information brought up by other GMs. Leach had a great peak but Oatman was the model of consistency and probably brought a lot more intangible qualities to the table.

Seventies posted this solid quote in the dirt thread:

Eddie Oatman gave a great fighting display against his old mates on Saturday night. He was good on the attack and featured in the defensive layout when Calgary was pressed. When Oatman is taking a rush, or attacking himself, he always watches his man right between the eyes. Eddie never looks down at the puck. He can feel it on the blade and by watching his man straight in the eye, he invariably beats him.

I had to dig for it as my search function isn't working when I search words, thankfully I remembered nik jr was the one who posted all of this excellent information:

As a hockey player, Eddie Oatman is splendidly equipped for speed, good skating, back-checking, stick-handling and goal-getting but anyone will tell you that his outstanding qualification is his fighting spirit.
The order to quit never went up from Eddie until the final gong sounded, no matter how many goals down the Cougars were. During the early part of last season, Victoria trailed the league, due to misfortune of one kind or another, but Eddie went out there and made his packwork team play their heads off. As the season wore on, the team climbed out of the rut and up to a position in the play-off. He is a great asset to any club and the fans here certainly hate to see him pull his skates and hit for the higher altitudes.
Eddie carved a big niche in the hearts of the fans here because he was a gentleman both on and off the ice. Quiet and unassuming, he has made ice hockey his real business in life, and he knows it inside and out and backward.
....
For 5 years, Eddie has skippered the Cougars. His play has always been a source of inspiration to the other members of the team. He is game to the heart and has been down for the count many times, but as soon as the smelling salts get to him, he revives and goes back for more.

Eddie is a natural right-wing man. He has never developed a long, hard shot, because he does not believe in shooting from a distance. He likes to get right in on top of the goalkeeper, being a firm supporter of combination. Practically every goal that Eddie has scored has come from a few feet out, after he has broken through and stick-handled around the goalie. He has never had a peer in duping a goalie once by the defence.

Eddie has always been a two-way man. As soon as he is out of the play on the attack, he wheels around and back-checks like a fiend. He is a regular dynamo.

calgary herald on oatman's shot, possibly related to shooting from close range:

There are few players possessing a more accurate or deadly shot than the Portland pilot, and he usually plants the disc in the net more often than he misses.

In addition to this fantastic seventies bio from last year: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24861606&postcount=145... I think there is enough evidence to call Oatman both a better all around offensive threat and a more defensive and physical player than Leach. Add that to the fact that he was a great captain and I think Halifax has a decided edge at RW.

As for the lines as a whole I think that Halifax's line is better offensively and better built. Both have a solid defensive presence and decent enough goal scoring but Halifax has a speed, playmaking, and intangible advantage...and are built to work well with the teams strong transition defense. I think Montreal's line lacks enough playmaking for Walsh and Leach to both be productive goal scorers.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Reggie Leach just seems like a guy who needs a top notch playmaker to be effective, and he doesn't have that here. The chemistry of Montreal's second line is a definite weakness.

 

[Stoneberg]

Checking lines:

Mike Ricci-Jack Walker-Bobby Rousseau vs. Marty Pavelich -Ralph Backstrom - Blair Russel
Ricci is the weak link on my unit, no question. If I had sacrificed another area of my team in an earlier round I think I would have had the best two way checking line (outside of top sixes of course). Anyway Pavelich is a highly regarded checking winger but isn't any better than Ricci offensivley...neither are much of an ATD factor in that regard. Ricci also steps his game up in the playoffs. Ricci has a strong selke record, and while he's clearly on a lower level than Pavelich, I think he is plenty effective to handle the RW's on Montreal adequately. Meanwhile, Pavelich will be up against the weakest player on my top line if Montreals questionable coaches have any hope in getting their matchups on the road. Here is Ricci's bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=32183020&postcount=218.

Jack Walker is certainly the best defensive player on either line, better in that regard than Backstrom. While Backstrom had a few strong offensive seasons, Walker had better longevity in his scoring record. Halifax has a clear advantage here, and has their best defensive player lining up against Montreals top weapon. Here is Dreaks great Walker bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24328449&postcount=67.

I consider Rousseau and Russel to be fairly close but have to give the edge to Rousseau for his similar number of strong offensive finishes in the regular season and playoffs in a significantly deeper era. In terms of defensive quality, I'd call it close to a wash. Factor in that Rousseau can play the point on the pp and kill penalties at a high level, and Halifax takes the slight edge at RW. Rousseau bio by EB: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=21620525&postcount=730

In conclusion, I think the lines are on a similar (high) level defensively while Halifax may have the offensive edge, especially in instances where Lecavalier skates with Walker and Rousseau (when Howe takes a shift or two against Mikita of course). Slight edge to Halifax due to the matching up of positions actually targeted towards the other teams top two offensive players, and a slight offensive edge.

 

[Stoneberg]

Taking a break for a bit, next on the agenda:

-Halifax's two biggest advantages: goaltending and coaching.
-D pairings
-Special teams
-4th lines

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Checking lines:

Mike Ricci-Jack Walker-Bobby Rousseau vs. Marty Pavelich -Ralph Backstrom - Blair Russel
Ricci is the weak link on my unit, no question. If I had sacrificed another area of my team in an earlier round I think I would have had the best two way checking line (outside of top sixes of course). Anyway Pavelich is a highly regarded checking winger but isn't any better than Ricci offensivley...neither are much of an ATD factor in that regard. Ricci also steps his game up in the playoffs. Ricci has a strong selke record, and while he's clearly on a lower level than Pavelich, I think he is plenty effective to handle the RW's on Montreal adequately. Meanwhile, Pavelich will be up against the weakest player on my top line if Montreals questionable coaches have any hope in getting their matchups on the road. Here is Ricci's bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=32183020&postcount=218.

Jack Walker is certainly the best defensive player on either line, better in that regard than Backstrom. While Backstrom had a few strong offensive seasons, Walker had better longevity in his scoring record. Halifax has a clear advantage here, and has their best defensive player lining up against Montreals top weapon. Here is Dreaks great Walker bio: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24328449&postcount=67.

I think you're selling Pavelich a little bit short here. I think he's a definite big step up from Ricci defensively, and I'd take Pavelich-Backstrom over Ricci-Walker any day. The gap between Pavelich and Ricci is definitely larger than the gap between Walker and Backstrom(I'm not sure there is any discernible gap here), and Rousseau and Russel.

 

[Stoneberg]

I think you're selling Pavelich a little bit short here. I think he's a definite big step up from Ricci defensively, and I'd take Pavelich-Backstrom over Ricci-Walker any day. The gap between Pavelich and Ricci is definitely larger than the gap between Walker and Backstrom(I'm not sure there is any discernible gap here), and Rousseau and Russel.

Fair enough, but without presenting reasoning I won't be taking any of this as fact, it's just opinion.

The gap between Pavelich and Ricci is large defensively, no question, maybe I didn't fully clarify that. Jack Walker was probably the best defensive player of his era, Bacsktrom certainly can't say the same...and Walker is better offensively. Backstrom was a third line center in real life his whole career while Walker was a top line player. You must know something I don't about Backstrom defensively (I had him in the LC ATD), if so, please share it. If Backstrom is even nearly as good a checking line player as Walker, it must mean Rousseau is way better than Russel...because clearly the early eras would have to be quite discounted.

The reason my checking line has the edge in this series regardless is that my checking players line up better against the other teams major threats, and it's better offensively. It would still take a serious argument for me to consider Montreal's on a higher level defensively.

 

[seventieslord]

Halifax defeats Montreal in 5 games.

3 stars:

Brodeur
Mikita
Park

also a factor: Syd Howe, Toe Blake, Mark Howe