ATD - EA Sports NHL 2018 for PS4

[tinyzombies]

PS4 not PS3.

Has anyone attempted to rate the different skill categories for the ATD players in EA Sports NHL 2018? I'm told you could create players in the World Cup mode of the game and you could actually recreate ATD draft teams and play against each other, or SIM the different ATD series. Would you do a sort of VsX for skill comparisons measured against today's game (what would his shot have been with the new sticks, etc.)? Geez this could get tricky.

Here's some of them:
NHLView Unveils Full Attributes to NHL 15 Legends - Operation Sports

VsX skill vs era and have it play that way vs. current NHL.	Deking	Hand-Eye	Passing	Puck Control	Slap Shot Accuracy	Slap Shot Power	Wrist Shot Accuracy	Wrist Shot Power	Acceleration	Agility	Balance	Endurance	Speed	Discipline	Off. Awareness	Poise	Def. Awareness	Faceoffs	Shot Blocking	Stick Checking	Aggressiveness	Body Checking	Durability	Fighting Skill	Strength
Orr	95	94	96	96					97	97	94	88	96											85	89
Gretzky	89	91	97	95	92	89	95	89	86	92	87	92	89				79				75	75	89	60	80
M. Lemieux	95	92							90	88	94	88	93											75	89
Howe	92	94							97	90	97	93	95											95	94
McDavid	96	95	95	96	92	89	93	89	97	97	86	87	96	87	97	90	90	80	81	89	80	82	85	68	86

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Click to read more...

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I did something like this for NHL 09 for the all-time Habs and Bruins team. Categories are the same in both games except there's no hand eye, fighting skill, stick checking and strength categories in NHL 09. I can share the numbers later

 

[Theokritos]

Has anyone attempted to rate the different skill categories for the ATD players in EA Sports NHL 2018? I'm told you could create players in the World Cup mode of the game and you could actually recreate ATD draft teams and play against each other, or SIM the different ATD series. Would you do a sort of VsX for skill comparisons measured against today's game (what would his shot have been with the new sticks, etc.)? Geez this could get tricky.

Here's some of them:
NHLView Unveils Full Attributes to NHL 15 Legends - Operation Sports

VsX skill vs era and have it play that way vs. current NHL.	Deking	Hand-Eye	Passing	Puck Control	Slap Shot Accuracy	Slap Shot Power	Wrist Shot Accuracy	Wrist Shot Power	Acceleration	Agility	Balance	Endurance	Speed	Discipline	Off. Awareness	Poise	Def. Awareness	Faceoffs	Shot Blocking	Stick Checking	Aggressiveness	Body Checking	Durability	Fighting Skill	Strength
Orr	95	94	96	96					97	97	94	88	96											85	89
Gretzky	89	91	97	95	92	89	95	89	86	92	87	92	89				79				75	75	89	60	80
M. Lemieux	95	92							90	88	94	88	93											75	89
Howe	92	94							97	90	97	93	95											95	94
McDavid	96	95	95	96	92	89	93	89	97	97	86	87	96	87	97	90	90	80	81	89	80	82	85	68	86

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Howe with the same acceleration and almost the same speed as Orr and McDavid? That doesn't sound right.

 

[tinyzombies]

I did something like this for NHL 09 for the all-time Habs and Bruins team. Categories are the same in both games except there's no hand eye, fighting skill, stick checking and strength categories in NHL 09. I can share the numbers later

Yes, please send.

 

[tinyzombies]

Howe with the same acceleration and almost the same speed as Orr and McDavid? That doesn't sound right.

I just did them fast. Howe’s acceleration was phenomenal though. This is why it would be a lengthy project. Methodologies would have to be developed.

EA has different modes, so that would be advantageous. You could make the card with actual attributes of the time or you could make a card to make Gordie play against all-time players the way he did against his own era, which is partially a VsX concept (some things would have to be adjusted when comparing the eras I assume...). Etc. One consideration is the controls. You can make a player speed burst for a whole shift. That's not how Howe played it seems. So does that mean you lower his acceleration to accomodate for the way he paced the game, or do you compare eras and say that was necessary because of the style/"systems" being played?

Another problem is the attributes are just starting attributes. I built Morenz and Rocket cards imagining them at their peak against their league and extrapolating that against the current league. Morenz was a 93 as a 26 year old. Richard was an 88. But they will both be used in franchise mode and will get better. Morenz would probably become a late 90s player. Have to play it to see. So, there is a consideration of accuracy, but also game mode. For me, more fun in a short tourney. Still working out how to do that in EA.

I was leaning towards the latter because it would be most fun. I like the idea of creating all-time teams for the Canadiens, Bruins, etc. I also like the idea of creating a four team league with the 100+ best players - to the point where there were enough players for each position. Also would love to create a rivalry from a past year, but it might be harder. Could do all-star teams from each decade against each other. There is video out there though... and people in this group probably know a lot of the attributes anyway.

 

[tinyzombies]

anyone who has done a bio on a player and thinks they can eyeball an EA attribute profile, let me know I can give you the link to the Drive spreadsheet I'm working on. I just read a Howie Morenz biography, so did this. Some categories... fighting for instance. Looks like he only had three fights judging from one website (one against Babe Siebert tho, and one against Cy Wentworth), so I gave him something near 80 because he was said to be rough and not afraid of anything, and he had brothers and grew up in a small town. He was said to have a powerful shot (made Benedict retire).

	Deking	Hand-Eye	Passing	Puck Control	Slap Shot Accuracy	Slap Shot Power	Wrist Shot Accuracy	Wrist Shot Power	Acceleration	Agility	Balance	Endurance	Speed	Discipline	Off. Awareness	Poise	Def. Awareness	Faceoffs	Shot Blocking	Stick Checking	Aggressiveness	Body Checking	Durability	Fighting Skill	Strength
Howie Morenz (5-9, 180)	93	91	89	91	90	93	90	90	93	94	94	90	94	86	94	90	94	88	87	93	94	90	90	79	88

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Boston Bruins F

	Overall	Speed	Checking	Endurance	Puck Control	Passing	Slap Power	Slap Acc	Wrist Power	Wrist Acc	Agility	Toughness	Acceleration	Balance	Faceoffs	Durability	Discipline	Deking	Aggress	Poise	Deflection	Shot Block	Off Aware	Def Aware
M. Barry	88	91	83	87	77	64	92	89	87	92	92	92	91	85	82	99	96	90	84	87	85	86	77	86
B. Bauer	88	93	76	88	82	76	81	80	81	80	96	86	93	86		93	99	96	76	88	76	85	82	85
P. Bergeron	90	89	96	90	69	71	80	66	75	66	87	91	89	91	97	87	88	74	96	90	84	98	69	98
J. Bucyk	92	81	99	92	90	86	86	86	83	89	83	98	81	96		84	97	81	99	92	91	85	90	85
B. Cowley	93	93	72	94	95	95	85	83	85	83	96	80	93	88	87	85	95	94	72	94	82	72	94	72
W. Dumart	89	76	99	88	76	70	95	82	90	85	78	98	76	91		92	97	77	99	88	87	97	76	97
P. Esposito	96	77	91	96	96	96	95	94	95	97	87	95	77	98	97	90	84	93	89	96	99	80	96	80
R. Middleton	89	96	83	89	79	74	85	81	85	81	97	82	96	86		92	97	97	83	89	78	90	79	90
C. Neely	88	87	99	88	68	65	91	89	91	89	87	99	87	98		66	72	85	99	88	97	88	68	88
A. Oates	85	81	82	87	85	90	76	65	76	65	93	83	81	87	96	95	95	93	81	87	74	88	85	88
M. Schmidt	95	93	97	95	90	90	85	82	85	82	96	98	93	95	98	89	97	93	97	96	96	92	90	92
C. Weiland	86	85	83	87	73	75	89	73	89	73	88	85	85	84	90	98	95	93	83	87	81	91	73	91

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

	Overall	Speed	Checking	Endurance	Puck Control	Passing	Slap Power	Slap Acc	Wrist Power	Wrist Acc	Agility	Toughness	Acceleration	Balance	Faceoffs	Durability	Discipline	Deking	Agress	Poise	Deflect	Shot Block	Off. Aware	Def. Aware.
R. Bourque	97	95	92	97	95	95	96	87	91	92	93	92	95	95		90	93	90	92	97	87	95	95	95
Z. Chara	93	75	97	93	90	90	99	84	96	87	75	98	75	95		95	77	76	97	93	82	96	90	96
D. Clapper	93	89	89	93	92	92	97	86	92	89	86	96	89	93		97	96	86	89	93	86	94	92	94
B. Orr	99	99	95	99	99	99	96	93	91	96	99	96	99	98		82	82	99	95	99	85	95	99	95
B. Park	90	90	95	89	89	89	92	81	87	86	87	93	90	85		83	85	87	95	89	82	89	89	89
E. Shore	97	97	99	97	96	96	85	88	80	93	99	99	97	98		89	68	97	99	97	88	91	96	91

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Methodology:

• Offensive awareness, defensive awareness, puck control, passing, slap and wrist shot accuracy are all ranked relative to their positions. For example, Chara has better passing than Middleton. Middleton is most likely a better passer than Chara in a vacuum, but Chara is a better passer relative to other D than Middleton is to other F.
• Passing rating is based off of VsX 7 assists. I broke the VsX 7 assists leaderboard into what I felt were reasonable breaks.
• Shot accuracy is based off of VsX 7 Goals. Same methodology as assists.
• Puck control and offensive awareness are the same and based off of VsX 7 points. Same methodology as assists.
• Information about the less than quantifiable abilities such as speed, aggressiveness, balance, endurance etc. are all based on my impression of reading each respective players' bios from the ATD.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I created around 35 players in NHL 2004 (more or less who I considered to be the greatest of all-time).

The problem was, since the ratings of top players was already very high in the game, I found the results unsatisfying - ie these all-time greats didn't seem good enough.

For example, players like Jeff O'Neill, Dan Cloutier, Mike Peca and Martin Biron were all 90. Forsberg was the highest at 97, then Brodeur, Turco, Bertuzzi, Fedorov and Thornton were 95's and 94's.

Even if I was rating Gretzky and Orr at 100, Howe and Lemieux at 97 or 98, there wasn't enough separation between them and the top players of the era. (Gretzky was obviously more than 3% better than Forsberg, Howe was obviously more than 2-4% better than Bertuzzi, etc).

Or looking at it another way - if Gretzky was 100, surely a "second tier" star like Beliveau or Hull had to be quite a bit lower (like 85-90) in comparison - but that didn't make any sense, as that means that they'd be ranked lower than players like, say, O'Neill and Peca.

I think I fudged the ratings so that most of these players (mostly Trottier/Clarke/Messier/Esposito calibre) were around 95, with Gretzky at 100 and Orr/Howe/Lemieux around 98. Like I said, it didn't accurately show how far ahead of everyone else they were, but it was still fun.

 

[tinyzombies]

In NHL 2018 (EA) you can make players and play them in tournament mode and not use the current players. At least I’ve read you can. Not sure how many can be made. One person said he made a lot but that it stopped allowing him at one point. If I tried to make three or four ATD champion teams, not sure it would allow me.

 

[tinyzombies]

Methodology:

• Offensive awareness, defensive awareness, puck control, passing, slap and wrist shot accuracy are all ranked relative to their positions. For example, Chara has better passing than Middleton. Middleton is most likely a better passer than Chara in a vacuum, but Chara is a better passer relative to other D than Middleton is to other F.
• Passing rating is based off of VsX 7 assists. I broke the VsX 7 assists leaderboard into what I felt were reasonable breaks.
• Shot accuracy is based off of VsX 7 Goals. Same methodology as assists.
• Puck control and offensive awareness are the same and based off of VsX 7 points. Same methodology as assists.
• Information about the less than quantifiable abilities such as speed, aggressiveness, balance, endurance etc. are all based on my impression of reading each respective players' bios from the ATD.

Bourque at 95 speed is eyebrow raising but this starts the discussion- thamks. They have McDavid at 96.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Bourque at 95 speed is eyebrow raising but this starts the discussion- thamks. They have McDavid at 96.

When I did the rankings, I didn't care about what the "regular" players's ratings were. I created my own benchmarks. For example, let's take speed. At 99 speed, I would have guys like Orr, McDavid, Gartner, Bure etc. Everyone else falls in line after that.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Used to do this many years ago.My knowledge of hockey history was laughable compared to today.

 

[tinyzombies]

When I did the rankings, I didn't care about what the "regular" players's ratings were. I created my own benchmarks. For example, let's take speed. At 99 speed, I would have guys like Orr, McDavid, Gartner, Bure etc. Everyone else falls in line after that.

I took McDavid as a benchmark for Morenz. Morenz won the fastest skater competition in 1927. Joliat said he had blinding speed. I’ve seen video of him from 1925 and video of him skating wide around Shore.

If we did a VsX type mentality for skating...

 

[tinyzombies]

I have Maurice Richard 79 discipline but he took an immediate penalty. For game play Inhad to raise it. He was more of a retaliater and it was more an era thing. So I guess that has to be considered as a methodology. Maybe seeing how they link certain attributes to stats then using VsX?

Also, the players created can be used in several modes (tho not in HUT obviously). But in franchise mode the player will grow from the starting base he’s given, so it’s probably best to use them in a vacuum in tourney play. My brother dominated with Morenz and he even scored an end-to-end goal where he went flying at the end of it.

Richard did not have the same impact so I will have to jack his poise and other intangibles. I guesstimated him and then there’s the feel of how he should play (judging from what little film we have of him from his prime. Gonna tweaknhim.

 

[grentthealien]

In NHL 2018 (EA) you can make players and play them in tournament mode and not use the current players. At least I’ve read you can. Not sure how many can be made. One person said he made a lot but that it stopped allowing him at one point. If I tried to make three or four ATD champion teams, not sure it would allow me.

There should be more than enough room for you to make your teams. You can create up to 600 players in Ea’s NHL 18. I have over the course of three games(NHL 14, NHL 17 and NHl 18) created accurate rosters for every NHL season from 88-89 to 17-18. I did it all for my own enjoyment and am quite proud of it as it is 29 years worth of hockey tranlasted into the video games which gives those games quite a bit of replay ability.

I’d love to see how you rate players in the 70s , 60s and O6 era as I have only created players from the 80s to now. My next roster that I will be recreating when I find the time is the 87-88 roster which will be fun as it is Greztky’s last year with the Oilers. My ratings are far from perfect as I did all of this by myself with little to no feedback , but if you like I could post some of my ratings for players that I covered in that time period. One rating I feel I did a good job at was speed. I play with atribute effects sliders on 10/10 so it is each player feels quite bit different depending on their atributes. There is a world of difference between Jason allison and Pavel Bure in these games lol

 

[tinyzombies]

There should be more than enough room for you to make your teams. You can create up to 600 players in Ea’s NHL 18. I have over the course of three games(NHL 14, NHL 17 and NHl 18) created accurate rosters for every NHL season from 88-89 to 17-18. I did it all for my own enjoyment and am quite proud of it as it is 29 years worth of hockey tranlasted into the video games which gives those games quite a bit of replay ability.

I’d love to see how you rate players in the 70s , 60s and O6 era as I have only created players from the 80s to now. My next roster that I will be recreating when I find the time is the 87-88 roster which will be fun as it is Greztky’s last year with the Oilers. My ratings are far from perfect as I did all of this by myself with little to no feedback , but if you like I could post some of my ratings for players that I covered in that time period. One rating I feel I did a good job at was speed. I play with atribute effects sliders on 10/10 so it is each player feels quite bit different depending on their. The difference you notice between Jason allison and Pavel Bure is astronomical lol.

This is the hockey history section and these guys are way ahead of me, but I am going to start with the bios and look at video.

If I can create 600 players I will do a team for each decade (hopefully these guys will help) and transpose how old players would play in today’s league and give them size adjustments.

Still working out how the attributes actually translate to game play. I created Morenz and it turned out great but my Maurice Richard was only very good. Have to tweak him. Also want to see if there’s any link between actual stats and attribute ratings.

 

[grentthealien]

When I did the rankings, I didn't care about what the "regular" players's ratings were. I created my own benchmarks. For example, let's take speed. At 99 speed, I would have guys like Orr, McDavid, Gartner, Bure etc. Everyone else falls in line after that.

I also prefer to do things that way as well. If a player is the best in the world at something then I always maxed their ratings at 99. Mcdavid and Bure with 99 speed, Gretzky with 99 Ofensive I.Q and passing, Datsyuk with 99 dekeing , Hasek with 99 shot recovery, Al Macinnis with a 99 slap shot power etc etc. If you play with the attribute effect slider maxed out you do notice these differences. The difference between a 90 speed player and a 99 speed player can definitely be felt in game.

 

[tinyzombies]

I also prfer to do things that way. If a player is the best in the world at something then I always maxed their ratings at 99. Mcdavid and Bure with 99 speed, Gretzky with 99 Ofensive I.Q and passing, Datsyuk with 99 dekeing , Hasek with 99 shot recovery, Al Macinnis with a 99 slap shot power etc etc. If you play with the attribute effect slider maxed out you do notice these differences. The difference between a 90 speed player and a 99 speed player can definitely be felt in game.

I’m going to be isolating these players in tourney play so I guess this makes sense. I will try it.

There’s three types of cards that can be built: an actual card from a player in the 50s let’s say, a card to 100 or a card where the player compares to contemporary guys like McDavid.

Could probably have guys from before 1970 all be realistic (other than Hull’s slapper, etc). But if I’m doing decade teams I have to bring them all up to date and transpose some skills to present day. The decade idea sounds the most fun to play, or an all-time Montreal team, etc. Maybe I’ll do both and invite comments.

 

[tinyzombies]

Another consideration. Sometimes a great player had flaws but overcame them with intangibles or willpower (like Rocket). If I start at 99, that gives me no room to correct and bring Rocket up to the level of great players that had more raw talent. So, I think I'll keep basing it against the ratings EA used for this year's players. Fastest skaters will have to be near McDavid, etc.

I'm also going to do a realistic skillset, say from 1953 or whatever for the Rocket just for interest sake. The gameplay will be vastly different because almost nobody has a slapper, but funny enough it's come full circle because most players are using the wrister almost exclusively like in the old days. Except I'll give them the wood stick option. Not sure if that will slow down their shots or not.

 

[grentthealien]

Another consideration. Sometimes a great player had flaws but overcame them with intangibles or willpower (like Rocket). If I start at 99, that gives me no room to correct and bring Rocket up to the level of great players that had more raw talent. So, I think I'll keep basing it against the ratings EA used for this year's players. Fastest skaters will have to be near McDavid, etc.

I'm also going to do a realistic skillset, say from 1953 or whatever for the Rocket just for interest sake. The gameplay will be vastly different because almost nobody has a slapper, but funny enough it's come full circle because most players are using the wrister almost exclusively like in the old days. Except I'll give them the wood stick option. Not sure if that will slow down their shots or not.

Sounds good. Out of curiosity what system are you using? Your title says PS3 but to my knowledge NHL 18 is only available for xbox one and Ps4.

 

[BenchBrawl]

How could McDavid have higher dekeing than Lemieux? Just the first thing that came to mind.The ratings are usually mediocre.

 

[tinyzombies]

Sounds good. Out of curiosity what system are you using? Your title says PS3 but to my knowledge NHL 18 is only available for xbox one and Ps4.

PS4 - typo. It won’t let me fix

 

[tinyzombies]

How could McDavid have higher dekeing than Lemieux? Just the first thing that came to mind.The ratings are usually mediocre.

Unlike ATD this is based on peak skill not accomplishments.

And what is a “deke”. Probably a weighted definition starting with one on one play to get to high danger zones and then to beat goalie. In which case Mario might get a slight edge at this point just because of longevity.