ATD Chat Thread XVII

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Professor What

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Honestly as a relative newbie the biggest struggle comes about midway through a draft. The data sources and their relative value is not well discussed, so you're left largely relying on previous draft orders to determine relative value. this leads to compounding "mistakes" in certain players, but also it's just really hard to have the necessary knowledge against people that have done this dozens of times.

I think the solution - to the extent it's a problem to be solved - is some more offseason chatter about the players maybe and more strategy discussion?

While I'm glad that the group ended up trusting me enough not to require a co-GM, I'm kind of wishing now that I'd had one to ease the growing pains. It probably would have helped my frustration to have someone to talk my thoughts out with in detail. If it were an all the time thing, even better.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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While I'm glad that the group ended up trusting me enough not to require a co-GM, I'm kind of wishing now that I'd had one to ease the growing pains. It probably would have helped my frustration to have someone to talk my thoughts out with in detail. If it were an all the time thing, even better.
Just chalk it up as a learning experience right now. It's a lot of fun and you'll get better.
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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While I'm glad that the group ended up trusting me enough not to require a co-GM, I'm kind of wishing now that I'd had one to ease the growing pains. It probably would have helped my frustration to have someone to talk my thoughts out with in detail. If it were an all the time thing, even better.

I did say you could PM me any time.... though based on the look of my team, maybe I understand why you didn't! lol
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
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While I'm glad that the group ended up trusting me enough not to require a co-GM, I'm kind of wishing now that I'd had one to ease the growing pains. It probably would have helped my frustration to have someone to talk my thoughts out with in detail. If it were an all the time thing, even better.

Your first entry looks a lot better than mine, so don't worry too much about your first go. If you've enjoyed the process that's ultimately what matters, we're here to have fun

Edmonton Eskimos

Coach : Jacques Lemaire
Assistant coach: Pete Muldoon

Captain - Lanny McDonald
Alt : Adam Foote, Woody Dumart

Woody Dumart --- Stan Mikita --- Cam Neely
Vincent Damphousse --- Peter Stastny --- Lanny McDonald
Harry Watson --- Igor Larionov --- Marian Gaborik
George Mantha --- Pit Lepine --- Jerry Toppazzini

Ex - Glen Skov (C/LW), Billy Boucher (RW)

Bill Quackenbush --- Tim Horton
Si Griffis --- Adam Foote
Hamby Shore --- Gennady Tsygankov

Ex - Wade Redden (D)

Ed Belfour
John Vanbiesbrouck
 
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Professor What

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I did say you could PM me any time.... though based on the look of my team, maybe I understand why you didn't! lol

You did. A lot of people have said that. I tend to have a mentality of not wanting to bother people, though it's probably nowhere near the "bother" I tend to think it will be. But hey, I'm not going to bash anyone's team with the questions I'm asking about my own right now. Lol
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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You did. A lot of people have said that. I tend to have a mentality of not wanting to bother people, though it's probably nowhere near the "bother" I tend to think it will be. But hey, I'm not going to bash anyone's team with the questions I'm asking about my own right now. Lol

The core group of the ATD has been batting around these players for years, and we're all still learning. Don't feel bad that you didn't know everything coming in.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
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@Professor What

I think it’s easy to overthink team building and your roster, especially on your first go-around. And it’s just as easy to feel the need to look for reassurance. Not that there is anything wrong with looking for opinions and feedback, and for the most part we’re all very approachable when it comes to offering guidance and feedback. But at the same time it’s important to not question your own roster too often. Try to have some confidence in your own ability to put together a competitive lineup! Of course your fellow GM’s are voting, but some of this is based on YOU telling us how good your team is, and what your team will do well to succeed. Constantly questioning your own decisions is fairly common when you’re new at this, but try not to overthink it all. It can certainly feel overwhelming, but honestly feel free to PM me at any time for feedback. I genuinely don’t mind.

Also, and this is just some friendly advice..So please don’t take it the wrong way. But if you start picking apart your own lineup publicly, that will just give your fellow GM’s ammunition should you end up facing them in a playoff series. That’s how I view it, anyways. We’re all here to help, but at the end of the day it’s still a competition, right?

But this is a good example of why rookie GM’s should always co-GM first, IMO. It’s much more in-depth than anyone can realize until they jump right in for themselves. It’s certainly overwhelming in that first year. Maybe even the second go-around as well. It can take some time to get your feet wet, so to speak.
 
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Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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@Professor What

I think it’s easy to overthink team building and your roster, especially on your first go-around. And it’s just as easy to feel the need to look for reassurance. Not that there is anything wrong with looking for opinions and feedback, and for the most part we’re all very approachable when it comes to offering guidance and feedback. But at the same time it’s important to not question your own roster too often. Try to have some confidence in your own ability to put together a competitive lineup! Of course your fellow GM’s are voting, but some of this is based on YOU telling us how good your team is, and what your team will do well to succeed. Constantly questioning your own decisions is fairly common when you’re new at this, but try not to overthink it all. It can certainly feel overwhelming, but honestly feel free to PM me at any time for feedback. I genuinely don’t mind.

Also, and this is just some friendly advice..So please don’t take it the wrong way. But if you start picking apart your own lineup publicly, that will just give your fellow GM’s ammunition should you end up facing them in a playoff series. That’s how I view it, anyways. We’re all here to help, but at the end of the day it’s still a competition, right?

But this is a good example of why rookie GM’s should always co-GM first, IMO. It’s much more in-depth than anyone can realize until they jump right in for themselves. It’s certainly overwhelming in that first year. Maybe even the second go-around as well. It can take some time to get your feet wet, so to speak.

I would probably have given honest advice and then met up in the playoffs and trashed the guy I suggested.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
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I would probably have given honest advice and then met up in the playoffs and trashed the guy I suggested.

Hahaha..so is how the ATD rolls! Love a player one year, and then pick him apart and talk him down when he’s on an opposing roster for a playoff series the next year! Then draft him again next time!
 
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ResilientBeast

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Hahaha..so is how the ATD rolls! Love a player one year, and then pick him apart and talk him down when he’s on an opposing roster for a playoff series the next year! Then draft him again next time!

I have considered avoiding players based on the things I've said about them before :laugh:
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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The ATD is fairly overwhelming for everyone the first time. It's why we used to recommend 1st Timers start with the Minor League Draft. Now, the One Player Per Franchise draft would also likely fit.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
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The ATD is fairly overwhelming for everyone the first time. It's why we used to recommend 1st Timers start with the Minor League Draft. Now, the One Player Per Franchise draft would also likely fit.

I started with AAA 2013, I found it actually more overwhelming.

You know less about all the players, it's harder to get quality information on them, and outside of the previous draft lists it's really hard as a new guy to get a handle on valuation.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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I started with AAA 2013, I found it actually more overwhelming.

You know less about all the players, it's harder to get quality information on them, and outside of the previous draft lists it's really hard as a new guy to get a handle on valuation.

Oh yeah, I had no idea what I was doing in MLD11, heh. My team sucked so bad.

But I feel like there is less "pressure" in those drafts, maybe just because they are shorter?

OPPF would actually be a great starter draft because it's relatively short and we've heard of all the players
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
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Ontario
The ATD is fairly overwhelming for everyone the first time. It's why we used to recommend 1st Timers start with the Minor League Draft. Now, the One Player Per Franchise draft would also likely fit.

I’d argue that the MLD isn’t for everyone though. It’s obviously not as overwhelming and in-depth as the ATD of course, but it has been described in the past as “for the hardcore’s”. I mean, the Viktor Zhluktov’s, Charlie Sands, Alex Shibicky’s and Dutch Reibel’s of the hockey world are getting drafted. Not everyone is going to know who these players are let alone know how to evaluate them in this context.
 
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Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
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Ontario
I actually thought the OPPF was the most difficult draft I’ve been involved in. I was an ATD “newbie” back in 2018 in the sense that I had never actually taken part in a history draft. But I wasn’t a true newbie since I had been researching and studying for years, and lurking/following along with the drafts for multiple years before jumping in. So I felt like I belonged, even though I was “new.”

I have enjoyed success with the MLD, and it’s honestly probably my favorite draft. It’s more laid-back, and you learn more about lesser-known players. It’s also much less predictable. I love it.

The OPPF though, was a different animal for me. I wasn’t prepared at all and it showed. A few bad decisions early and I felt “stuck” with what I could do to fix the issues. I’m hoping to participate again in the future and this time be much more prepared.
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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I actually thought the OPPF was the most difficult draft I’ve been involved in. I was an ATD “newbie” back in 2018 in the sense that I had never actually taken part in a history draft. But I wasn’t a true newbie since I had been researching and studying for years, and lurking/following along with the drafts for multiple years before jumping in. So I felt like I belonged, even though I was “new.”

I have enjoyed success with the MLD, and it’s honestly probably my favorite draft. It’s more laid-back, and you learn more about lesser-known players. It’s also much less predictable. I love it.

The OPPF though, was a different animal for me. I wasn’t prepared at all and it showed. A few bad decisions early and I felt “stuck” with what I could do to fix the issues. I’m hoping to participate again in the future and this time be much more prepared.
One interesting thing for an OPPF draft?

Allow trades. Not only of picks, but of franchise slots. I'll trade you a second round pick for your Montreal slot (for instance). Any shortage of picks during the draft can be made up during add/drop.
 

Johnny Engine

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Jul 29, 2009
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Completely frivolous all-time team comparison time!
Which of these is best?

Team A:
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Johnny Bucyk - Joe Malone - Frank Frederickson
Don McKenny - Bill Cowley - Stan Smyl
Don Marcotte - Cooney Weiland - Ed Westfall
Eddie Shore - Dit Clapper
Roman Josi - Shea Weber
Fern Flaman - Leo Boivin
Frank Brimsek
Pekka Rinne
--------------
Team B:
Jamie Benn - Ron Francis - Bernie Morris
Frank Foyston - Mike Modano - Dino Ciccarelli
Zach Parise -Tyler Seguin - Marian Gaborik
Jack Walker - Mikko Koivu - Jere Lehtinen
Derian Hatcher - Sergei Zubov
Ryan Suter - Lester Patrick
Ulf Samuelsson - Craig Hartsburg
Ed Belfour
Mike Liut
--------------
Team C:
Bill Barber - Bobby Clarke - Reggie Leach
Leon Draisaitl - Connor McDavid - Claude Giroux
John Leclair - Eric Lindros - Mark Recchi
Brian Propp - Dave Poulin - Tim Kerr
Chris Pronger - Eric Desjardins
Mark Howe - Brad McCrimmon
Jimmy Watson - Oscar Klefbom
Bernie Parent
Ron Hextall
--------------
Team D:
Charlie Simmer - Marcel Dionne - Dave Taylor
Paul Kariya - Butch Goring - Teemu Selanne
Luc Robitaille - Bernie Nicholls - Mike Murphy
Rob Niedermayer - Steve Rucchin - Matt Cullen
Oleg Tverdovsky - Larry Murphy
Ruslan Salei - Jerry Korab
Keith Carney - Mark Hardy
Rogatien Vachon
Jean-Sebastien Giguere
--------------
Team E:
Tommy Phillips - Joe Sakic - Helmuts Balderis
Nels Stewart - Peter Forsberg - Hooley Smith
Baldy Northcott - Mickey MacKay - Jimmy Ward
Valeri Kamensky - Nathan MacKinnon - Shane Doan
Cyclone Taylor - Lionel Conacher
Art Duncan - Lloyd Cook
Cy Wentworth - Adam Foote
Patrick Roy
Hugh Lehman

Those of you who catch what's up here would know that Team A could easily add a pair of rookies to the team that would blow the rest of the field away.
 

Professor What

Registered User
Sep 16, 2020
2,257
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Gallifrey
It's funny how much better I do feel about my PP after that exchange. Like I said, it was the fact of not having done any real team building exercises that was making me feel hemmed in. Obviously, when I'm watching games, I can see who's playing on power plays and penalty kills, but I've never paid much attention to the makeups of those units, because I've never had to. Now, realizing that I can shuffle those positions more than I was giving myself liberty to do, I like that build MUCH better. That one thing is a huge weight off.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
One interesting thing for an OPPF draft?

Allow trades. Not only of picks, but of franchise slots. I'll trade you a second round pick for your Montreal slot (for instance). Any shortage of picks during the draft can be made up during add/drop.
The biggest downside is it would kill part of the laid back aspect of the OPPF draft, where I can just check in during my turn and thats it

But it could be interesting.
 
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