ATD Chat Thread XVI

[BenchBrawl]

The oasis was the Seoul ball hockey league i had been part of, but that was a decade ago now.

Why stop playing?

 

[VanIslander]

Why stop playing?

1. I have never lived in Seoul. I was spending the equivalent of $500 u.s. a month on weekend trips.

2. I was 36-42 playing with a lot of twentysomethings and some thirtysomethings. I am now 50. Running around got too tiring in my early forties. I even gave up rollerblading. I still hike, though, with rest stops and a pace of movement i set myself, not pushed to do.

 

[Dreakmur]

Even in the middle of the hockey world, people who want to talk about the history of the game are rare.

Lots of old guys like to tell stories, but aren’t interested in trying to put things into historical context.

 

[VanIslander]

Oct. 18-20 2019 Quebec City

The SIHR fall meeting.

The group will attend a major juniors game (Ramparts hosting Rimouski) to kick the weekend off.

Sounds like a bloody epic weekend!

 

[BenchBrawl]

1. I have never lived in Seoul. I was spending the equivalent of $500 u.s. a month on weekend trips.

2. I was 36-42 playing with a lot of twentysomethings and some thirtysomethings. I am now 50. Running around got too tiring in my early forties. I even gave up rollerblading. I still hike, though, with rest stops and a pace of movement i set myself, not pushed to do.

Ah I see. Damn 500$ US a month is quite the sum.

I have a personal interest in the bolded. I rollerblade every sunny day from April to October—sometimes even in November. I'm in my 30s now and I feel as great as I ever did. Should I expect not to be able to rollerblade in my 40s and 50s? Or did you just let yourself go a bit? I was kindda hoping I'd just keep going at it nonestop and barely slow down until I was like 55. Obviously I'm not doing it competitively, just a pleasant hobby.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oct. 18-20 2019 Quebec City

The SIHR fall meeting.

The group will attend a major juniors game (Ramparts hosting Rimouski) to kick the weekend off.

Sounds like a bloody epic weekend!

Will you attend?

 

[Johnny Engine]

Each year, I try to build the equivalent ATD roster to the one coming out of the Leafs' training camp, trying to get as close as I can in role, value, size, and region of birth. Some may find the comparisons blasphemous, but I don't particularly care as the ATD is all about stacking players up and putting them in roles, and it's interesting to compare a real NHL team to our sometimes formulaic lineups. I'd really like to see fans of other teams give this a try - it's really challenging!


Wayne Cashman (1) - Stan Mikita (2) - Guy Lafleur (3)
Henrik Zetterberg (4) - Phil Esposito (5) - Markus Naslund
Boris Mayorov - Marty Barry - Mike Gartner (6)
Ron Ellis - Joel Otto - Jason Spezza
Red Berenson, Ulf Dahlen

Lionel Conacher - Harry Cameron
Pierre Pilote - Si Griffis (7)
Oliver Ekman-Larsson - Glen Harmon
Pavel Kubina, Goldie Prodger

Ken Dryden (8)
Thomas Vokoun (9)

Some notes:
1 - Most think of Hyman as a "wouldn't be on that line if he couldn't do that one thing" like Cashman is in the ATD, but if he reels off another season at 0.6 P/G with no powerplay time, isn't that what we draft Bert Olmstead to do in the ATD? I'm going to conservatively stick with Cashman.
2 - Might be a bit rich on the 2-way play, but Tavares took every important draw last year, and frankly Mikita doesn't compare to the Nighbors, Clarkes and Trottiers in his tier. Sub in Joe Sakic if you really don't like it.
3 - You'd better be a top-30 talent with that money. Sub in Andy Bathgate if he's a 70-point guy.
4 - I maybe like this one least, as Johnsson is more of a sparkplug than a shutdown guy, but he's got the same size, energy and nationality.
5 - You'd want Matthews to be that top-3 all-round uber centre, but big Jean never mooned a security guard. He needs to be better in his own end.
6. The only one where I couldn't even get close on the nationality. I suppose Bure shares a border with Finland, but I think Kapanen's more of a blunt instrument, and doesn't have ATD Bure's moves. He's far below Selanne's ATD role, and nothing like Lehtinen. If he's dad was an ATD middle-sixer we'd be cooking with gas.
7. Big guy, played some rover but there's more written in his bio about his defense than his numbers. I don't think we really know what to do with him but have accepted him as a #4 in a large ATD. Sounds like what Cody Ceci's doing in the NHL.
8. We have no Danes to speak of, and I'd rather use a physically large, top-10 goalie here than his neighbour Lundqvist.
9. A righty!

 

[seventieslord]

Each year, I try to build the equivalent ATD roster to the one coming out of the Leafs' training camp, trying to get as close as I can in role, value, size, and region of birth. Some may find the comparisons blasphemous, but I don't particularly care as the ATD is all about stacking players up and putting them in roles, and it's interesting to compare a real NHL team to our sometimes formulaic lineups. I'd really like to see fans of other teams give this a try - it's really challenging!


Wayne Cashman (1) - Stan Mikita (2) - Guy Lafleur (3)
Henrik Zetterberg (4) - Phil Esposito (5) - Markus Naslund
Boris Mayorov - Marty Barry - Mike Gartner (6)
Ron Ellis - Joel Otto - Jason Spezza
Red Berenson, Ulf Dahlen

Lionel Conacher - Harry Cameron
Pierre Pilote - Si Griffis (7)
Oliver Ekman-Larsson - Glen Harmon
Pavel Kubina, Goldie Prodger

Ken Dryden (8)
Thomas Vokoun (9)

Some notes:
1 - Most think of Hyman as a "wouldn't be on that line if he couldn't do that one thing" like Cashman is in the ATD, but if he reels off another season at 0.6 P/G with no powerplay time, isn't that what we draft Bert Olmstead to do in the ATD? I'm going to conservatively stick with Cashman.
2 - Might be a bit rich on the 2-way play, but Tavares took every important draw last year, and frankly Mikita doesn't compare to the Nighbors, Clarkes and Trottiers in his tier. Sub in Joe Sakic if you really don't like it.
3 - You'd better be a top-30 talent with that money. Sub in Andy Bathgate if he's a 70-point guy.
4 - I maybe like this one least, as Johnsson is more of a sparkplug than a shutdown guy, but he's got the same size, energy and nationality.
5 - You'd want Matthews to be that top-3 all-round uber centre, but big Jean never mooned a security guard. He needs to be better in his own end.
6. The only one where I couldn't even get close on the nationality. I suppose Bure shares a border with Finland, but I think Kapanen's more of a blunt instrument, and doesn't have ATD Bure's moves. He's far below Selanne's ATD role, and nothing like Lehtinen. If he's dad was an ATD middle-sixer we'd be cooking with gas.
7. Big guy, played some rover but there's more written in his bio about his defense than his numbers. I don't think we really know what to do with him but have accepted him as a #4 in a large ATD. Sounds like what Cody Ceci's doing in the NHL.
8. We have no Danes to speak of, and I'd rather use a physically large, top-10 goalie here than his neighbour Lundqvist.
9. A righty!

This is excellent and I think you justified your choices very well.

 

[VanIslander]

I am shaken.

1. I knew Marleau wanted to play longer.
2. I know he still has speed (He practiced with the Sharks this summer and JT said he still was the fastest on the ice).
3. I checked the HfBoards trades board every bloody time i was online this summer, giving up last week after the 2nd day of the season.
4. Patty FINALLY was signed by San Jose after rookies sucked, the team lost and Marleau's prospects for 15-25 goals, 30-50 points, penalty kill unit duty and a couple of GWGs for a league minimum salary looked much better than the 13th forward's potential this season for the Sharks.

I will be ecstatic if he gets 20 goals, 40 points, 3 game winners and the Sharks make the playoffs, he scoring two goals and two assists in the opening round, win or lose for the 40 year old's team.

 

[seventieslord]

I am shaken.

1. I knew Marleau wanted to play longer.
2. I know he still has speed (He practiced with the Sharks this summer and JT said he still was the fastest on the ice).
3. I checked the HfBoards trades board every bloody time i was online this summer, giving up last week after the 2nd day of the season.
4. Patty FINALLY was signed by San Jose after rookies sucked, the team lost and Marleau's prospects for 15-25 goals, 30-50 points, penalty kill unit duty and a couple of GWGs for a league minimum salary looked much better than the 13th forward's potential this season for the Sharks.

I will be ecstatic if he gets 20 goals, 40 points, 3 game winners and the Sharks make the playoffs, he scoring two goals and two assists in the opening round, win or lose for the 40 year old's team.

His reputation seems to have lost a little of its lustre lately...

R.I.P. Patrick Marleau's Ironman streak

 

[VanIslander]

2 goals on 6 shots in a 5-4 win tonight.

Marleau's offseason fitness regime pays off once again.

He was the fastest player on the ice tonight.

 

[VanIslander]

His reputation seems to have lost a little of its lustre lately...

R.I.P. Patrick Marleau's Ironman streak

Technically he hasn't missed any of his starts.

Anyways, he will win a trophy this season. It may only be the Masterton if not Lady Byng, hopefully Stanley, but one is likely on its way because his time in the Toronto limelight did help him get respect.

 

[seventieslord]

Technically he hasn't missed any of his starts.

Anyways, he will win a trophy this season. It may only be the Masterton if not Lady Byng, hopefully Stanley, but one is likely on its way because his time in the Toronto limelight did help him get respect.

I think it's completely bogus that his Ironman streak isn't ended by not being signed. But that aside, a lot of guys in that thread had a lot of choice words for Marleau and how much the streak meant to him late in the season.

 

[ResilientBeast]

My lord McDavid

17 points in 7 games to kick off the year on a 6-1 team.

199 point pace

 

[BenchBrawl]

My lord McDavid

17 points in 7 games to kick off the year on a 6-1 team.

199 point pace

Please not this again—let us never see that point total ever again !

Great start by McDavid for sure.

 

[ImporterExporter]

9 of his 17 points are on the PP. That's not a sustainable rate, obviously. Stay out of the box against them, it's that simple.

Old man Crosby is still the best all around player in hockey at 32 years old. 141 point pace on a team that is decimated by injuries (Malkin, Galchenyuk, Rust, Bjugstad all out long term). McDavid is the most electric and skilled player in the league no doubt, but as far as 200 foot players go, Sid rules the day. He's playing even better hockey than he did last year.

I just hope everyone stays healthy. Please.

 

[seventieslord]

9 of his 17 points are on the PP. That's not a sustainable rate, obviously. Stay out of the box against them, it's that simple.

Old man Crosby is still the best all around player in hockey at 32 years old. 141 point pace on a team that is decimated by injuries (Malkin, Galchenyuk, Rust, Bjugstad all out long term). McDavid is the most electric and skilled player in the league no doubt, but as far as 200 foot players go, Sid rules the day. He's playing even better hockey than he did last year.

I just hope everyone stays healthy. Please.

it's a great start for Crosby and he's definitely putting together a hart runner up caliber season. I don't think there's any chance they give it to anybody other than McDavid if he ends up 20 or 30 points ahead of the field, which he definitely could do. But I agree that so far what Crosby is done in this very short sample has been remarkable.

 

[ImporterExporter]

it's a great start for Crosby and he's definitely putting together a hart runner up caliber season. I don't think there's any chance they give it to anybody other than McDavid if he ends up 20 or 30 points ahead of the field, which he definitely could do. But I agree that so far what Crosby is done in this very short sample has been remarkable.

Agreed 100% .

McDavid, barring injury (knock on wood), is going to run away with the major hardware. He's in the perfect age range, coupled with obvious generational talent. I certainly don't think he's going to score 140-150 points but he'll probably end up around 120-130 which is still fantastic and win the Ross by double digits. If Edmonton doesn't collapse, they'll breeze into the playoffs this year and McD will get his Hart. Rightfully so given they're still not a loaded team.

I just can't get over how good Sid has looked the past 2 years. With Malkin either hurt or playing like absolute ass he's carried the Pens on his back. He's not really fallen off much offensively from his prime and his all around game is just on another level right now. That transition and goal he scored last night against Colorado was as beautiful a deke/backhand goal as you'll ever see. In my lifetime, I've certainly never seen a better backhand. Not even close to be honest. He's gone from a good face off player to one of the best in the league as well. He's being deployed in more defensive situations and making a difference there. It's just a pleasure to watch 87 play hockey.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Agreed 100% .

McDavid, barring injury (knock on wood), is going to run away with the major hardware. He's in the perfect age range, coupled with obvious generational talent. I certainly don't think he's going to score 140-150 points but he'll probably end up around 120-130 which is still fantastic and win the Ross by double digits. If Edmonton doesn't collapse, they'll breeze into the playoffs this year and McD will get his Hart. Rightfully so given they're still not a loaded team.

I just can't get over how good Sid has looked the past 2 years. With Malkin either hurt or playing like absolute ass he's carried the Pens on his back. He's not really fallen off much offensively from his prime and his all around game is just on another level right now. That transition and goal he scored last night against Colorado was as beautiful a deke/backhand goal as you'll ever see. In my lifetime, I've certainly never seen a better backhand. Not even close to be honest. He's gone from a good face off player to one of the best in the league as well. He's being deployed in more defensive situations and making a difference there. It's just a pleasure to watch 87 play hockey.

Yup. I actually agreed with you word for word.

 

[seventieslord]

Agreed 100% .

McDavid, barring injury (knock on wood), is going to run away with the major hardware. He's in the perfect age range, coupled with obvious generational talent. I certainly don't think he's going to score 140-150 points but he'll probably end up around 120-130 which is still fantastic and win the Ross by double digits. If Edmonton doesn't collapse, they'll breeze into the playoffs this year and McD will get his Hart. Rightfully so given they're still not a loaded team.

I just can't get over how good Sid has looked the past 2 years. With Malkin either hurt or playing like absolute ass he's carried the Pens on his back. He's not really fallen off much offensively from his prime and his all around game is just on another level right now. That transition and goal he scored last night against Colorado was as beautiful a deke/backhand goal as you'll ever see. In my lifetime, I've certainly never seen a better backhand. Not even close to be honest. He's gone from a good face off player to one of the best in the league as well. He's being deployed in more defensive situations and making a difference there. It's just a pleasure to watch 87 play hockey.

I don't mean to make this about Crosby vs. OV, but I have a question. Aside from perhaps 2.5 seasons (07-08 to the 2010 Olympics), Crosby has always been better than OV. But for some time, it seemed right to say "OV LOOKS better, but he's not actually better, he just pulls off these dazzling plays from time to time. Crosby is just boring and efficient, and ultimately more effective, but OV is certainly more entertaining which gets his actual quality of play more attention than it merits with respect to Crosby".

....but this hasn't been true for a while, has it? Crosby, who was always better, has also been a more entertaining, eye-test passing player for quite some time now. I'm not sure that I can say OV was a more dazzling, entertaining player for at least six seasons now. It's Crosby who's always making the sick passes, the incredible goals and the ten second one-man-show clips.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I don't mean to make this about Crosby vs. OV, but I have a question. Aside from perhaps 2.5 seasons (07-08 to the 2010 Olympics), Crosby has always been better than OV. But for some time, it seemed right to say "OV LOOKS better, but he's not actually better, he just pulls off these dazzling plays from time to time. Crosby is just boring and efficient, and ultimately more effective, but OV is certainly more entertaining which gets his actual quality of play more attention than it merits with respect to Crosby".

....but this hasn't been true for a while, has it? Crosby, who was always better, has also been a more entertaining, eye-test passing player for quite some time now. I'm not sure that I can say OV was a more dazzling, entertaining player for at least six seasons now. It's Crosby who's always making the sick passes, the incredible goals and the ten second one-man-show clips.

Ovechkin has NEVER been a better hockey player than Sid. Not even in his 65 goal season. Not in the truest sense. The problem with 8 is he's largely ignored an entire half of the equation (ice) as it relates to hockey. Especially in his earlier years. Then you saw him have a couple of really down years after Trotz left where he simply looked disinterested.

He's a guy who struck me as a party goer, a stat chaser, and some one who cared more about individual accolades than the team and that was proven year after year in Washington with his late season goal chasing and early playoff exits despite being on the best team in the East more than once.

He celebrated goals in November like it was game 7 of the SCF's. That always irked me. I've never been a fan of exuberant personalities in hockey especially. STFU and play the game. Yzerman, Sakic, Beliveau. Those are the guys I would look up to as role models and leaders. Just personal preference of course.

With that being said, I respect Ovechkin for the role he's played in the cap era and his counter balance to Sid as far as superstars go. I find his goal scoring to be overrated because of volume shooting but even still he's arguably the greatest all time in that department. That's VERY significant when you think about who he's up against.

The biggest reasons I've gotten out of people as to why they dislike/hate Sid is one, he was hyped for years and some people got sick of it. And two, his whining as a teenager, which absolutely was a problem, turned people off, likely the same people who had already decided they didn't like the guy to begin with. Obviously if you're a Flyers or Caps fan you're going to loathe the guy just from a rivalry standpoint but the hype and whining were the only real reasons I got out of people as to why they disliked 87.

The interesting thing I though, the hype was out of Sid's control. He didn't ask for it. That's all media driven. Same is true of the Sid vs Ovi rivalry to begin with although there is some organic magic there simply because of the team each guy plays on. But I can't understand disliking a player because of hype. The whining? Sure, it's never a good look but I'm not exactly stomping the guy out because he bitched to much as an 18 year old. He's far from the only athlete to have an issue with that as a youngster. And it subsided very quickly. Once the "C" went on you saw him shut his trap much more consistently.

Yeah, Sid is relatively boring. So what?

In this hyper partisan, drama filled world we live in, Sid is as quiet as a church mouse. I look around at the NFL (happens in the NBA and other pro leagues) and see moron like Antonio Brown torpedoing their own careers for social media "likes". I see players demanding trades, weighing in on political matters, as if their opinion on that means a lick. I don't see Sid's career taking a dive like say Aaron Rodgers because the latter decided dating high profile women was more important than bettering yourself at your craft. Say what you want, but Crosby is, to me, as close to a picturesque role model for youngsters who have big aspirations in life. Work ethic, loyalty, dedication, constantly striving to stay ahead of the curve, etc. Helping those who need it because you have the resources to do so. Not being a dick to fans, reporters, players, etc, even though for the last decade and half you've had those types in your face for 80% of every year. I don't watch sports to see nonsense or hear pro players talk about politics. There is enough of that outside the game.

McDavid, for example, is even MORE boring than Sid from everything I've seen and heard and I could care less. He's a tremendous talent that we're lucky to witness. He acts like he's been there before on the ice and just dominates. No drama, no frills. Just domination.

 

[seventieslord]

That was a great essay and very entertaining, but it doesn't really address the point of what I was saying.

 

[ImporterExporter]

That was a great essay and very entertaining, but it doesn't really address the point of what I was saying.

I absolutely think it does. I just happen to be long winded lol.

Ovechkin was flashy. He was a great Yang to Sid's Yin. Crosby was the boring superstar who resembled a metronome. Ovechkin was the runaway freight train. Which do you notice more?

Rhetorical question aside, being more noticeable doesn't = better. People who have the ability to take a nuanced view of hockey understand this.

And yes, for at least the past 6-7 years Sid has vastly outpaced Ovechkin as far as sick highlights go. Ovechkin simply isn't the go at it alone player he once was and that sapped a lot of his highlight reel ability. He's much more one dimensional these days/reliant on others to get him the puck in scoring areas.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I don't mean to make this about Crosby vs. OV, but I have a question. Aside from perhaps 2.5 seasons (07-08 to the 2010 Olympics), Crosby has always been better than OV. But for some time, it seemed right to say "OV LOOKS better, but he's not actually better, he just pulls off these dazzling plays from time to time. Crosby is just boring and efficient, and ultimately more effective, but OV is certainly more entertaining which gets his actual quality of play more attention than it merits with respect to Crosby".

....but this hasn't been true for a while, has it? Crosby, who was always better, has also been a more entertaining, eye-test passing player for quite some time now. I'm not sure that I can say OV was a more dazzling, entertaining player for at least six seasons now. It's Crosby who's always making the sick passes, the incredible goals and the ten second one-man-show clips.

Crosby has been more entertaining ever since Ovy transformed from Bobby to Brett.

 

[seventieslord]

Crosby has been more entertaining ever since Ovy transformed from Bobby to Brett.

...so about 2012-2013, eh?