ATD Chat Thread XV

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Was wondering if I'd need to do these by hand but working on a project for HOH project and the ATD. Does anyone have a spreadsheet of season by season for pretty much every league until 1926 when the NHL had most of the talent?

Your best bet is to pay for a SIHR subscription, which I did for one year. SIHR has a few errors in who played what position in which season (or at least it did like 5 years ago), but the stats themselves should be good

 

[VanIslander]

Typhoon Soulik hit South Korea Friday.
I'll make my way to an Internet cafe in the next few hours.

 

[seventieslord]

Half a shout-out in James Benesh's article in the 20 August Hockey News (Tavares cover), page 62-63 ... decent article on Sprague Cleghorn and Retro Norris trophies, he says "Luckily for us, historians at hfboards.com spent many hours searching old newspapers to get first-hand accounts of what kind of player Cleghorn was..."

As a recreational historian who has never actually done this, I appreciate all y'all who have. I found hfboards at the recommendation of a US Navy sailor I was deployed with years ago, I found the ATD forum when I used the search function and saw Sidney Crosby's name next to Frank McGee and wondered who the hell the Dubai Mighty Camels were and what the hell was happening in here. Thanks to all of y'all who have helped me appreciate so much of this game's history and helped keep their names alive forever.

so it got noticed!

Thank you.

James is very well known here and a very respected member of the community. Awesome, but not surprised he'd give the ATD/HoH folks a shout out.

I will any time I can. I'd like for guys interested in hockey history to see my articles and think, "gee, how'd this guy I've never heard of end up writing for THN?" The answer is, I spent years learning at hfboards! Maybe they will join us and strengthen our community.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The NHL series for NHL19 has added a ton of legends to their HUT mode. They dug deep Charlie Conacher and Howie Morenz made the cut.

Looking forward to building an ATD type squad this year.

Some of the ratings don't make sense, but I've got Johnny Bower on the squad

 

[seventieslord]

before the retro norris article was a retro smythe article (we used the SIHR project winners but I did a piece outlining a few times a defenseman could/should have won). Coming out any day should be the next one with retro Harts. Since we're only talking about 6 years, I outlined 5 "finalists" in order each season instead of just one winner.

Calder, Vezina, and (I hope), Selke are coming next.

Also watch for the fall special edition - top-100 NHL goalies of all-time. I was part of the list submitting panel on that. You'll really like the list, beyond the top-20 (they had to adhere to the order of the goalies found in the 1998 top-100 list, but were free to move players active since then, but everyone else was locked in, leading to wacky rankings of durnan, hainsworth, and especially chabot). But beyond the top-20, it is really well done and I'm proud to have been a part of it. I also got to write two follow-up lists that will take up four pages: The top-10 north american non-NHL goalies, and the top-10 international goalies.

Anyone care to guess the names on those two lists, and/or the order?

 

[seventieslord]

"We Didn't Make the Playoffs" - a parody of "We Didn't Start the Fire" and tribute to the 2006-2016 Leafs by seventieslord, with help from isophagus.

This was the end result of a thread in the Leafs' section called "name a player from the bad old days".

I tried to be as true to the original song as I could, as far as syllables are concerned. I got lazier towards the end. This is harder than it looks. For best effect, listen to the song as you read this, then check the real lyrics.

===============================

Jeff O'Neill, Aki Berg, Ken Klee, Johnny Pohl,
Staffan Kronwall, Erik Westrum, Colaiacovo

Nathan Perrott, Eric Lindros, Kyle Wellwood, Ryan Hollweg,
Kris Newbury, Michael Peca and Andre Deveaux

Hamiltons, Stalberg, Bradley May, Suglobov,
Ondrus, Ian White, and that old Czerkawski guy

Pavel Ku-been, Sundin's got a new team,
Oreskovic, Richardson, Tie Domi goodbye

We didn't make the playoffs
No we never tanked it
Always tried to make it
We didn't make the playoffs
No we couldn't make it
Always tried to fake it

Matty Stajan, Antropov, Foster and Khavanov
Mikael Tellqvist, Eddie Belfour, Andrew Raycroft

Hal Gill, Robbie Earl, Ponikarovsky, Hagman
Chad Kilger's scandal, Boyd Devereaux

Leafs' pick Brad Boyes, scoring for another team
Anton Stralman, Mark Bell, Jonas Frogren, Stapleton

Rosehill, Stempniak, Johnny Mitchell, Luke Schenn
Darryl Boyce, Jason Blake, Jiri Tlusty's penis

We didn't make the playoffs
No we never tanked it
Always tried to make it
We didn't make the playoffs
No we couldn't make it
Always tried to fake it

Jeff Finger, what a guy, signed by Fletcher's failing mind
Justin Pogge never played, what a solid choice we made

Brian Burke comes in, says he wants more truculence
Brings in Mike Brown, skill level of team goes down

Joseph Bernier Clemmensen, Gerber Pogge Gustavsson
Maurice Wilson, what the heck, none worse than Pete Horachek

Tim Brent, Exelby, Kulemin and Connolly
Battaglia, Perreault, Andy Woz's eyebrows

We didn't make the playoffs
No we never tanked it
Always tried to make it
We didn't make the playoffs
No we couldn't make it
Always tried to fake it

Signing David Clarkson, Nonis was a strange man,
Zach Sill, Ranger, Kostka on the top pair

Robidas, injury, on the island he will be
Stralman turned out OK, now he plays for Tampa Bay

Dion with Avery's ex, called him out for "sloppy secs"
JFJ, Rask for Ray, what else do I have to say?

We didn't make the playoffs
No we never tanked it
Always tried to make it
We didn't make the playoffs
No we couldn't make it
Always tried to fake it

Vesa comes to save the day, who needs draft picks anyway?
Logan Couture, coulda looked good here
Begin rebuild just in time, Bozak on the top line
Tyler Biggs, England now, thought he would be Lucic now?

Roman Polak, Richard Clune, Komisarek, what a goon
Foreign vets in the nets, Gustavsson, what a mess
Joffrey Lupul on his yacht, well at least he's kinda hot
Frazer Mac, Colton Orr, I can't take it anymore!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Karlsson to San Jose. Weird, weird team to envision him on, but it'll be interesting to see what he does on an actual good roster. Burns and Karlsson anchoring each of their top 2 pairs is disgusting from an offensive standpoint.

 

[seventieslord]

Have two defensemen ever been a team's top 2 scorers? Might happen this year.

Also, shocked that San Jose won the sweepstakes. I think they're too old and their window has closed. Going all in will not work for them.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Have two defensemen ever been a team's top 2 scorers? Might happen this year.

Also, shocked that San Jose won the sweepstakes. I think they're too old and their window has closed. Going all in will not work for them.

Not the Caps with Hatcher and Iafrate, not the Rangers with Zubov and Leetch, not the Preds with Subban and Josi. The Leafs had McCabe and Kaberle as #2 and #3 for two years in a row (with the 2 flipping places each year), and Sundin leading the team in scoring was pretty much the middle square on a bingo card.

 

[Sturminator]

Have two defensemen ever been a team's top 2 scorers? Might happen this year.

Did the Duncan/Cook tandem never do it?

I wouldn't be shocked if somewhere in the annals of old-tyme hockey there is some weird team that meets these criteria. Weren't Reg Noble and Harry Cameron the top scorers for the Toronto Arenas (or the Blueshirts or whatever the hell they were called then) one year when they won the Cup? Dunno if those guys were actually playing defense at the time, tho.

 

[seventieslord]

Did the Duncan/Cook tandem never do it?

I wouldn't be shocked if somewhere in the annals of old-tyme hockey there is some weird team that meets these criteria. Weren't Reg Noble and Harry Cameron the top scorers for the Toronto Arenas (or the Blueshirts or whatever the hell they were called then) one year when they won the Cup? Dunno if those guys were actually playing defense at the time, tho.

Noble only was defense in Toronto for one season. So I don't think so.

 

[Theokritos]

Also, shocked that San Jose won the sweepstakes. I think they're too old and their window has closed. Going all in will not work for them.

Meanwhile the return Ottawa gets is . This looks like a lose lose trade. Plus, the rest of the league also has to be pissed because you'd figure anyone could have come up with a better offer for Karlsson. The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[seventieslord]

Meanwhile the return Ottawa gets is . This looks like a lose lose trade. Plus, the rest of the league also has to be pissed because you'd figure anyone could have come up with a better offer for Karlsson. The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

For a player like this, you kinda expect the package will be two 1sts, the guy they drafted in the 1st last year and the year before, and an established young roster player. They got one of the above.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Burns and Karlsson are both on a 4 years 60 points scoring stretch.

Arbitrary number perhaps, but who did this since the 80s except Bourque?

They're both on a remarkable stretch offensively (and overall).With Vlasic, this is a legit Big Three.If Thornton can play like an average #1 C despite his age, they have a good chance to win the cup.There's no real powerhouse in the league right now.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Have two defensemen ever been a team's top 2 scorers? Might happen this year.

Also, shocked that San Jose won the sweepstakes. I think they're too old and their window has closed. Going all in will not work for them.

Chris Chelios and Gary Suter in 95-96, though technically Jeremy Roenick was tied for 2nd, played fewer games and scored more goals than Suter.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Chris Chelios and Gary Suter in 95-96, though technically Jeremy Roenick was tied for 2nd, played fewer games and scored more goals than Suter.

Wow, how did I not think of that when I was looking earlier?
It's a bit of a perfect storm, with Roenick declining from a 100-point player to a 70-point player a year before Chelios declines from a 70-point player to a 40-point player, which is in turn a year away from Amonte going from a 60-point guy to someone flirting with 80 points. At any other point, you'd have a forward decisively outscoring both defensemen.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Chris Chelios and Gary Suter in 95-96, though technically Jeremy Roenick was tied for 2nd, played fewer games and scored more goals than Suter.

Bernie Nichols also only played 59 games that year. So the Hawks top 2 per game scorers missed significant time (Roenick 66 GP).

 

[seventieslord]

Arbitrary number perhaps, but who did this since the 80s except Bourque?

.

I've gotta think Leetch, MacInnis, Coffey and Housley all did it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I've gotta think Leetch, MacInnis, Coffey and Housley all did it.

Only Housley (edit: and Coffey) did it in the 90s, and it was 90-94 which was basically like the 80s in scoring.But Leetch would probably have done it without the lockout or injuries.Same with MacInnis.

In any case Karlsson and Burns have a really impressive stretch offensively.

Also, Karlsson and Burns finished Top 5 in Hart voting in the same year, and I think it was the first time a defenseman did it since Lidstrom. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I've gotta think Leetch, MacInnis, Coffey and Housley all did it.

Lidstrom missed it by 1 point twice!

2000 - 2003 and then again the first 4 years after the lockout

 

[seventieslord]

Coffey had a streak through 94, Housley through 93, MacInnis through 92, Suter through 91. Those are the four most recent I can find. Kinda cool that they all ended in subsequent years.

Bourque's streak ended in '94 but his streak was 14 years long.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Coffey had a streak through 94, Housley through 93, MacInnis through 92, Suter through 91. Those are the four most recent I can find. Kinda cool that they all ended in subsequent years.

Bourque's streak ended in '94 but his streak was 14 years long.

Yeah, so no one did it since the dead puck era but Burns and Karlsson.But I get that it's completely arbitrary.

Lidstrom missed it by a single point in 2009, which would have nailed the 4 years in a row.He also missed it by a single point in 2002.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Lidstrom missed it by 1 point twice!

2000 - 2003 and then again the first 4 years after the lockout

Beat me to it

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bernie Nichols also only played 59 games that year. So the Hawks top 2 per game scorers missed significant time (Roenick 66 GP).

Yeah well, this will usually happen if two defensemen lead the team in scoring.But I get that this year they could actually pull this off, even on a per-game basis, which is crazy.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Dahlin will be so incredibly good.My gut feeling is that his career will eclipse all defensemen of this generation.

If he stays in Buffalo I should be lucky enough to watch his career closely from MTL.