ATD 2021 Procedure (the convoluted & technical brainstorming that GMs can feel free to ignore)

[Professor What]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm confused at this point. I've been reading all of this, but it's getting to be all Greek to new. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just ask this for now. What does my being on the rookie list mean for the discussion of tiers, and what if anything, do I personally need to do?

 

[Theokritos]

Yes they will need to send their lists to both of us. Of course this can be done in a single PM. Then RB and I will separately put those lists together and send them to you.

Fine.

I suggest listing the GMs alphabetically as follows:

GM A
1. 5-8
2. 13-16
3. 17-21
4. 9-12

GM B
1. X
2. X
3. X
4. X

And so on

Theo does this format work for you?

Looks good to me.

From a procedural perspective, I don't know if we discussed it but I really only have 2 preferences

Good point. I guess you're not the only GM who will feel that way, but then, there might be some who have one or two tiers they really don't want to pick from, so the option of ranking more prefrences will be good for them. But I should probably re-word it so that ranking up to five tiers becomes optional. Any GM who doesn't see reason to give more than e.g two preferences is free to submit a shorter ranking. Once this GM's turn in the random order comes and his preferred tiers are already assigned, he will simply be put back in the open contention for the remaining tiers with the GMs not eligible for a reward.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm confused at this point. I've been reading all of this, but it's getting to be all Greek to new. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just ask this for now. What does my being on the rookie list mean for the discussion of tiers, and what if anything, do I personally need to do?

If you don't care where you pick.

Don't do anything, random chance will drop you somewhere in the order

 

[Professor What]

If you don't care where you pick.

Don't do anything, random chance will drop you somewhere in the order

Would I be correct in guessing that doing so would probably be a good idea for my first time out? I honestly don't know if I'd have a preference since I've never done it before, so I certainly don't know what my preference might be if it would exist.

 

[Theokritos]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm confused at this point. I've been reading all of this, but it's getting to be all Greek to new. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just ask this for now. What does my being on the rookie list mean for the discussion of tiers, and what if anything, do I personally need to do?

It's been a pretty convoluted discussion for sure and I'm going to send out explanatory PMs to all the GMs it concerns. Here's what the one for new GMs is going to say:

As a rookie GM, you are eligible to influence your draft position in the 2021 ATD. Just how much you can influence it will be decided by the ATD Reward Lottery. In order to participate in this lottery, you have to submit a ranking (1st to 5th) of the draft segments you would prefer to draft in. The exact draft segments will be announced on January 14, 14:00 EST, but you can already take a sneak at what the segments will roughly look like in post 90 upthread. If you have no preferences, you can forego the reward. If you have fewer than five preferences, you can rank fewer segments. Once the exact segments are announced on January 14, you have until January 15, 14:00 EST to submit the ranking of your preferences to both Hawkey Town 18 and ResilientBeast.

 

[Theokritos]

Would I be correct in guessing that doing so would probably be a good idea for my first time out? I honestly don't know if I'd have a preference since I've never done it before, so I certainly don't know what my preference might be if it would exist.

If you don't know whether you have a preference, it's not a mistake to not submit a ranking. I don't think drafting from a certain segment or even specific position is a real advantage anyway. The main reason we do this lottery now is because some veteran GMs had to draft from the same area too often for their liking and they welcome a better chance to draft from somewhere else. And since this is reward-based, we include rookies because they obviously didn't have the chance to qualify for the reward by voting last year.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm confused at this point. I've been reading all of this, but it's getting to be all Greek to new. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just ask this for now. What does my being on the rookie list mean for the discussion of tiers, and what if anything, do I personally need to do?

I've played in the ATD for 10 years, and have administered 2 or 3 of them, and I'm just as confused as you are.

This thread is an abomination.

 

[BenchBrawl]

On the one hand there's this ugly thread to determine that my probability of getting a pick in the 8th-13th range might go from 18.2% to 21.7% (who cares really?!), and on the other I'm trying to convince people to sign-up in private. This thread is not helping me one bit.

Professor What's post should be a hint that this whole thing is counterproductive.

Anyway, too late.

 

[Professor What]

I think I'll just let the chips fall where they may for a couple of reasons. One, it will just be simpler, and two, I'd prefer not to do something that might interfere with the preferences of veterans. I appreciate the concept of trying to do something to help the new guy, and it's one of the things I like about this board, but I'd rather see players who have established themselves consistently get that bonus.

Also, while confusing, the discussion isn't driving me away, and I'd hope it wouldn't drive others off. I'll just say this for anyone who's on the fence and has their questions because things are confusing: just think about what this is at its root, and think about the fact that there are plenty of people here who are willing and able to help. Don't let it drive you away.

 

[Habsfan18]

Count me in with the group who feels this thing has turned silly by this point. It has become a much bigger issue than it needs to be.

I personally couldn’t give two shits about this “reward system” even though I qualify. I just want to get started.

But I do appreciate everything that @Theokritos does. I want to state that as well.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm not against a fine-tuned reward system but figure out the details in private first, then once it's finalized present the clearest explanation in public.

I'd rather a dictator running the draft with an iron fist than this bureaucratic nightmare.

 

[BenchBrawl]

But I do appreciate everything that @Theokritos does. I want to state that as well.

Theokritos is an outsider who is giving us a hand, he cannot be held responsible for anything here. ATDers are responsible for what tangent the administrative process is taking.

 

[Theokritos]

Looks like it wasn't the wisest choice to discuss all the details in public, but at least it allowed us to iron everything out and we're set now. The messages to the GMs have just gone out.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Would I be correct in guessing that doing so would probably be a good idea for my first time out? I honestly don't know if I'd have a preference since I've never done it before, so I certainly don't know what my preference might be if it would exist.

Probably.

I honestly don't see the point in a rookie trying to figure out his preferred spot (though you are welcome to do so if you want).

The original point of this all was to add variety for GMs who have been stuck with similar draft positions too often.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

The worst part was discussing this in the sign-up thread, there definitely needs to be a separate thread every year for this type of stuff going forward. Big thanks to TDMM for pointing that out and Theo for creating the new thread and moving all the post. I sincerely hope that this did not deter anyone from signing up, and it's something I'm going to try to more conscious of going forward, this board will die without new blood.

As for the public/private thing, I don't really mind having all of these post made public as long as it's in a separate thread, it makes things transparent, but I also understand people not wanting to sift through all of it, and would be fine with trying to have a smaller group of GMs who are interested in having these discussions come up with a plan in private and then present it to the group.

It took a long time, but I think the end result we've come up with is a lot more fair/inclusive than the original proposals, so at least we got something out of it.

 

[Professor What]

One more dumb question to make sure I'm understanding it all well enough. Not submitting preferences has no impact on my chances at a top four spot, right? For obvious reasons I don't want to jeopardize that. That would probably be the one thing that would cause me to submit a preference list.

 

[Theokritos]

One more dumb question to make sure I'm understanding it all well enough. Not submitting preferences has no impact on my chances at a top four spot, right?

That's correct. And it's not a dumb question at all, I should have mentioned it. Will add in the PM conversations.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The worst part was discussing this in the sign-up thread, there definitely needs to be a separate thread every year for this type of stuff going forward. Big thanks to TDMM for pointing that out and Theo for creating the new thread and moving all the post. I sincerely hope that this did not deter anyone from signing up, and it's something I'm going to try to more conscious of going forward, this board will die without new blood.

As for the public/private thing, I don't really mind having all of these post made public as long as it's in a separate thread, it makes things transparent, but I also understand people not wanting to sift through all of it, and would be fine with trying to have a smaller group of GMs who are interested in having these discussions come up with a plan in private and then present it to the group.

It took a long time, but I think the end result we've come up with is a lot more fair/inclusive than the original proposals, so at least we got something out of it.

I fully agree about trying to keep it public

 

[ResilientBeast]

Count me in with the group who feels this thing has turned silly by this point. It has become a much bigger issue than it needs to be.

I personally couldn’t give two shits about this “reward system” even though I qualify. I just want to get started.

But I do appreciate everything that @Theokritos does. I want to state that as well.

It hasn't impacted us starting anyway?

On the one hand there's this ugly thread to determine that my probability of getting a pick in the 8th-13th range might go from 18.2% to 21.7% (who cares really?!), and on the other I'm trying to convince people to sign-up in private. This thread is not helping me one bit.

Professor What's post should be a hint that this whole thing is counterproductive.

Anyway, too late.

I'm not sure how the discussion of trying to get higher playoff voting by dangling a small carrot out there would turn people away? Now that this has been sorted out everything is the exact same as usual

Edit: If you don't care at all, don't worry just tell @Hawkey Town 18 and I you don't have a preference, then the draft is the exact same as always.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm not sure how the discussion of trying to get higher playoff voting by dangling a small carrot out there would turn people away? Now that this has been sorted out everything is the exact same as usual

Edit: If you don't care at all, don't worry just tell @Hawkey Town 18 and I you don't have a preference, then the draft is the exact same as always.

Don't take me for an imbecile.

 

[Habsfan18]

You’re right RB, it hasn’t affected us starting at all. That’s not what I was stating. I am just in the camp of people who thinks this discussion has gone on far too long and has become much more “complicated” than it needed to be. Really only a small handful of people seem to give a crap about this reward system anyways lol I mean, I guess I’ll select my preference since I qualify, but I don’t care about it nearly as much as a few others do.

For the record, I can understand why a public discussion like this *could* potentially drive newcomers away. It wouldn’t drive me away, but I could see why some people would feel intimidated by discussions they really have no knowledge or understanding of.

 

[VanIslander]

Did you have your morning coffee?

Good. Let's move on.

 

[ted2019]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to be a lot of folks on here that seem to be taking this exercise a bit too seriously.

 

[BenchBrawl]

So if we set the sign-up deadline at 2 PM EST of January 14 (remember I'm operating +6 from EST, so that's 8 PM for me), then the tiers/segments could be announced right away and the lottery for the top segment (picks 1-4 overall) would be held. Neither would take long.

Next step: the reward lottery for the remaining GMs who are eligible for a reward. Would be done right afterwards and wouldn't take long either. First a random order will be determined for rookie GMs plus the GMs who voted 6/6 times last year, then for the GMs who voted 5/6, then for the GMs who voted 4/6. Each GM has time until the next day (let's say the deadline is 2 PM EST on January 15) to announce an individual ranking of the segments in order of their preference. Of course, GMs can also choose not to announce if their draft position doesn't matter to them.

Once the deadline has arrived, I will assign the GMs to their preferred tiers/segments in sequence of the reward lottery order. That being done, the main lottery for all the picks (save 1-4 overall) follows. In case a segment is already fully assigned, all I have to do is hold a quick lottery between the four or five GMs to determine the order. For example: GMs A, B, C and D have been assigned to segment II (picks 5-8 overall), so all that is left to do is to let the dice decide who among them picks 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th. The unassigned GMs enter the lottery as soon as a segment that has not been fully assigned comes up.

---

At this point the above is only a suggestion. Thoughts?

So the GMs flat out get exactly what they want, not just an increased probability of getting it? Now I regret not reading this entire thread. This is way too drastic. They should get more "balls" for their preferred segment, but no way should they be handed their segment on a silver platter. Hard to believe this came to be accepted by those who red the thread. I post this here as a reminder for next year.

Anyway, too late. My fault for letting this go through

 

[Dreakmur]

So the GMs flat out get exactly what they want, not just an increased probability of getting it? Now I regret not reading this entire thread. This is way too drastic. They should get more "balls" for their preferred segment, but no way should they be handed their segment on a silver platter. Hard to believe this came to be accepted by those who red the thread. I post this here as a reminder for next year.

Anyway, too late. My fault for letting this go through

There is no advantage to any spot in the draft.