ATD 2021 Procedure (the convoluted & technical brainstorming that GMs can feel free to ignore)

Hawkey Town 18

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
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Chicago, IL
Why make submissions private? Just post your preferences so everyone can overview it. There is no reason to go through the trouble of hiding simple preferences when it's just going to prolong the overall process and make Theo's job more difficult. Plus there are no worries about collusion.

I create a preference thread. People post where they want their extra dice to go. Or don't post. There is no rule stating to you have to participate in the reward aspect. Theo does his thing and we get a draft order.

Just my opinion.

The reasons are laid out in post #67 above
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
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Brooklyn
It's clearly A LITTLE better to have submissions private, but maybe not "better enough" to be worth the work to theo.
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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We're trying to avoid strategic choices that shape our divisions/conferences

Meh, the extra dice don't guarantee anyone a hard spot.

This is one thing I'm going to be a prick about, I'm sorry but I'm trying to be very honest and upfront. We should agree that public display of the draft order process is open for all to see, not just 2 or 3 people. The handling of this specific info has always gone to a non participating GM.

I could simply argue that the people handling the collection of data could then make their own preferences based on others. Not that either of you would but it's the simple notion of the possibility.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
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Meh, the extra dice don't guarantee anyone a hard spot.

True, that was also my train of thought.

This is one thing I'm going to be a prick about, I'm sorry but I'm trying to be very honest and upfront. We should agree that public display of the draft order process is open for all to see, not just 2 or 3 people. The handling of this specific info has always gone to a non participating GM.

I could simply argue that the people handling the collection of data could then make their own preferences based on others. Not that either of you would but it's the simple notion of the possibility.

Well, if participating GMs would get involved (as Hawey Town 18 and ResilientBeast have offered), they would submit their own preferences to me (the non-participant) before they start to collect PMs. That would preclude the possibility you mention.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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True, that was also my train of thought.



Well, if participating GMs would get involved (as Hawey Town 18 and ResilientBeast have offered), they would submit their own preferences to me (the non-participant) before they start to collect PMs. That would preclude the possibility you mention.

Copy that. I'm cool with the handlers being required to submit their lists first and then the rest follow.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
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From what I understand you want the lists to be public because it's easier for you to put everything together. Perhaps 2 of us participating GMs could help collect the preference list data via PM and put it in one big list/file/PM for you (2 GMs so there is a double check built in).

The 2 GMs would of course have to give you their own preference lists up front, before they start collecting the lists of other GMs via PM.

As I've been behind a lot of this, I would be happy to volunteer to be one of those GMs.

I can also volunteer

Thanks guys, I gladly accept your offer. Looks like we have a solution.
 

Hawkey Town 18

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
8,244
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Chicago, IL
Sounds like we have everything in place, but the following confused me...

Meh, the extra dice don't guarantee anyone a hard spot.

True, that was also my train of thought.

Hasn't the extra dice thing been thrown out and you are simply assigning GMs to their preferred tier (provided it's not already full)?

Once the deadline has arrived, I will assign the GMs to their preferred tiers/segments in sequence of the reward lottery order.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
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Sounds like we have everything in place, but the following confused me...





Hasn't the extra dice thing been thrown out and you are simply assigning GMs to their preferred tier (provided it's not already full)?

Yes, sorry for being unclear. There will be no extra dice, but GMs eligible for a full reward will be grouped first while the dice is replaced by the random order. The point was merely that no GM is guaranteed the spot respectively segment/tier of his or her preference because a lottery will determine a random order in which their preferences will be considered. So you effectively have no control over which GMs you end up in the same segment with.
 
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Hawkey Town 18

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
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Chicago, IL
Here's what I have (please feel free to double check my work)...


GMs Who Participated in Every Vote Last Year

@ChiTownPhilly (currently a maybe, please join!)
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

Rookie GMs or Those Who Did Not Participate Last Year
@ted2019
@Professor What
@BraveCanadian

GMs Who Voted 5/6 Times Last Year
@Johnny Engine
@nabby12

GMs Who Voted 4/6 Times Last Year
@BenchBrawl
@Claude The Fraud
@MadArcand
@Sprague Cleghorn (not currently signed up, please join)
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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Yes, sorry for being unclear. There will be no extra dice, but GMs eligible for a full reward will be grouped first while the dice is replaced by the random order. The point was merely that no GM is guaranteed the spot respectively segment/tier of his or her preference because a lottery will determine a random order in which their preferences will be considered. So you effectively have no control over which GMs you end up in the same segment with.

So at this point we'd just be waiting on @ResilientBeast and @Hawkey Town 18 to decide on their preferences which I would assume will happen once we finalize the final tally of GM's.

Looking good!
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
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So at this point we'd just be waiting on @ResilientBeast and @Hawkey Town 18 to decide on their preferences which I would assume will happen once we finalize the final tally of GM's.

Right. As soon as the sign-ups are closed, the segments/tiers will be announced and then I will wait for the two volunteers to PM me their preferences. Once I've got them, all the other eligible GMs will be informed that they can submit theirs now. The deadline for their submissions is January 15, 14:00 EST. Exactly 24 hours after the sign-up deadline.

The setup for the segments is already in place, all we need to know is how many teams we actually have:

Already set in stone:

Tier I: Picks 1-4 overall (off limits for preference)
Tier II: Picks 5-8

Depending on number of teams:

Tier III:
Picks 9-12 (if 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27 or 28 teams)
Picks 9-13 (if 23 teams)

Tier IV:
Picks 13-16 (if 21, 24, 25, 26 or 28 teams)
Picks 13-17 (if 22 or 27 teams)
Picks 14-18 (if 23 teams)

Tier V:
Picks 17-20 (if 24, 25 or 28 teams)
Picks 17-21 (if 21 or 26 teams)
Picks 18-22 (if 22 or 27 teams)
Picks 19-23 (if 23 teams)

Tier VI:
Picks 21-24 (if 24 or 28 teams)
Picks 21-25 (if 25 teams)
Picks 22-26 (if 26 teams)
Picks 23-27 (if 27 teams)

Tier VII:
Picks 25-28 (if 28 teams)

I ask the GMs who are eligible for a reward to already spend some thought on the areas they would prefer to pick from. On January 14, they will be asked to rank their preferred tiers from 1-5.

MOD suggestion: put the sign-up deadline date/time in the title of the sign-ups thread

Done.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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Right. As soon as the sign-ups are closed, the segments/tiers will be announced and then I will wait for the two volunteers to PM me their preferences. Once I've got them, all the other eligible GMs will be informed that they can submit theirs now. The deadline for their submissions is January 15, 14:00 EST. Exactly 24 hours after the sign-up deadline.

The setup for the segments is already in place, all we need to know is how many teams we actually have:

Already set in stone:

Tier I: Picks 1-4 overall (off limits for preference)
Tier II: Picks 5-8

Depending on number of teams:

Tier III:
Picks 9-12 (if 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27 or 28 teams)
Picks 9-13 (if 23 teams)

Tier IV:
Picks 13-16 (if 21, 24, 25, 26 or 28 teams)
Picks 13-17 (if 22 or 27 teams)
Picks 14-18 (if 23 teams)

Tier V:
Picks 17-20 (if 24, 25 or 28 teams)
Picks 17-21 (if 21 or 26 teams)
Picks 18-22 (if 22 or 27 teams)
Picks 19-23 (if 23 teams)

Tier VI:
Picks 21-24 (if 24 or 28 teams)
Picks 21-25 (if 25 teams)
Picks 22-26 (if 26 teams)
Picks 23-27 (if 27 teams)

Tier VII:
Picks 25-28 (if 28 teams)

I ask the GMs who are eligible for a reward to already spend some thought on the areas they would prefer to pick from. On January 14, they will be asked to rank their preferred tiers from 1-5.



Done.

Fantastic!

Thank you sir and many thanks to @Hawkey Town 18 and @ResilientBeast for chiming in and helping sort this out.

Only a week left ladies and gents.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
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Two more questions:

1) When does the clock start? If the draft order is determined on Friday, January 15, then perhaps on Monday, January 18?

2) Any interest in another way to determine the divisions? For example according to past results of the GMs? EDIT: Actually, question 2 is a bit pointless now that we have established private submission of preferences.
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Two more questions:

1) When does the clock start? If the draft order is determined on Friday, January 15, then perhaps on Monday, January 18?

2) Any interest in another way to determine the divisions? For example according to past results of the GMs? EDIT: Actually, question 2 is a bit pointless now that we have established private submission of preferences.

I believe that is usually how we do things. A couple of days of no-clock to let everyone check in.
 

Hawkey Town 18

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
8,244
1,631
Chicago, IL
@Hawkey Town 18 & @ResilientBeast: How is it going to work? GMs have to send their preferences to both of you, I assume?

Yes they will need to send their lists to both of us. Of course this can be done in a single PM. Then RB and I will separately put those lists together and send them to you.

@ResilientBeast we should probably send our lists in the same format so it’s easy for Theo to look at them side by side.

I suggest listing the GMs alphabetically as follows:

GM A
1. 5-8
2. 13-16
3. 17-21
4. 9-12

GM B

1. X
2. X
3. X
4. X

And so on

Theo does this format work for you?
 
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