ATD 2021 Procedure (the convoluted & technical brainstorming that GMs can feel free to ignore)

[Theokritos]

Once we have a set # of GM's and the 2 outstanding votes are finalized we can get @Theokritos to randomize a draft order for us. Theo, please let me know if you cannot do that. I know you had mentioned about not being able to tabulate votes post draft, but wasn't sure if you'd still be available mid January to set a draft order for us.

I can do the draft order. Just let me know if you decide to give a reward to GMs who always voted last year after all or if there are any other considerations. Still a little time to figure that out anyway.

Click to read more...

 

[ImporterExporter]

I can do the draft order. Just let me know if you decide to give a reward to GMs who always voted last year after all or if there are any other considerations. Still a little time to figure that out anyway.

Thanks sir!

If someone wants to bring up an alternative to a randomized order feel free to put the thought here. Even though I'm 99% sure I voted in every round last year I'd rather just take what I get and then make trades as necessary.

Unless of course people are fine with me just taking #1 overall and building around Bobby Orr.

 

[Theokritos]

Thanks sir!

If someone wants to bring up an alternative to a randomized order feel free to put the thought here. Even though I'm 99% sure I voted in every round last year I'd rather just take what I get and then make trades as necessary.

One thing I could do is determine the draft ranking in segments again even if we one have one team per GM... like: picks 1-5, then post them, then picks 6-10, etc... IMO that was fun last year and provided a little entertainment & suspense (not sure if GMs agree though)... and if I do that again, I could give GMs who deserve a reward for 2020 an "extra ball" in a segment of their choice.

 

[rmartin65]

One thing I could do is determine the draft ranking in segments again even if we one have one team per GM... like: picks 1-5, then post them, then picks 6-10, etc... IMO that was fun last year and provided a little entertainment & suspense (not sure if GMs agree though)... and if I do that again, I could give GMs who deserve a reward for 2020 an "extra ball" in a segment of their choice.

I enjoyed that a lot last year, and would definitely like to see it again.

I also support your "extra ball" solution.

 

[BenchBrawl]

One thing I could do is determine the draft ranking in segments again even if we one have one team per GM... like: picks 1-5, then post them, then picks 6-10, etc... IMO that was fun last year and provided a little entertainment & suspense (not sure if GMs agree though)... and if I do that again, I could give GMs who deserve a reward for 2020 an "extra ball" in a segment of their choice.

The logistics of this would be too annoying (the part where we have to ask each GM their favorite segment).

I'd add balls for the Top 5 picks to people who voted, and give rookies the same number of balls. Not sure if we should add a ball per each round of voting.

Anyway, I'm fine with whatever, as long as it doesn't become a grind.

 

[tinyzombies]

You could use ranker.com and have people vote up or down as it goes along lol.

 

[Theokritos]

The logistics of this would be too annoying (the part where we have to ask each GM their favorite segment).

I don't think it would be too annoying. How many GMs are eligible anyway from last year? Do we have a list?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Here are the results for the regular season voting. 19 ballots were received.

...

Voters:

18 GMs:
@Claude The Fraud
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Johnny Engine
@kruezer
@MadArcand
@nabby12
@Namba 17
@overpass
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@Selfish Man
@Sprague Cleghorn
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

1 non-GM:
@ChiTownPhilly

16 ballots received. The first round PO results:

...

Voters:

@ChiTownPhilly
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Johnny Engine
@MadArcand
@Namba 17
@overpass
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@Selfish Man
@Sprague Cleghorn
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

16 ballots received. The second round PO results:

...

Voters:
@BenchBrawl
@ChiTownPhilly
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Johnny Engine
@nabby12
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@Selfish Man
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

17 ballots received.

...

Voters:
@BenchBrawl
@ChiTownPhilly
@Claude The Fraud
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@MadArcand
@nabby12
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@Sprague Cleghorn
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d
@VanIslander

16 ballots received.

...

Voters:
@BenchBrawl
@ChiTownPhilly
@Claude The Fraud
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Johnny Engine
@MadArcand
@nabby12
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

16 ballots received. The result of the 2020 ATD Final:

...

Voters:
@BenchBrawl
@ChiTownPhilly
@Claude The Fraud
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@Johnny Engine
@kruezer
@nabby12
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@Sprague Cleghorn
@tinyzombies
@tony d
@VanIslander

As participants, IE and TDMM were not eligible to vote in the Final, so they should get counted as voting that round. Considering that, I count 11 GMs who participated in every vote:

@ChiTownPhilly
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d


The extra ball is a nice idea, but it assumes GMs want to pick early, which is often not the case. If @
Theokritos is willing to put in the work, I would propose the following:

A separate drawing for the top 4 picks where everyone has an equal chance.

Break up the rest of the draft into 4 groups (if we have 24 teams those would be an even 5 picks each: 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24)

Starting with the assumption that each GM will have 1 ball in each of the above 4 group drawings, allow the GMs that participated in every vote last year to "move" 1 of their balls.

Example:
GM A starts off as follows:
5-9: 1 ball
10-14: 1 ball
15-19: 1 ball
20-24: 1 ball

GM A who participated in every vote last year tells @Theokritos he wants his 15-19 ball moved to the 5-9 drawing. GM A's drawings now look like this:

5-9: 2 balls
10-14: 1 balls
15-19: 0 balls
20-24: 1 ball

GM A now has an extra chance at the 5-9 range, but has also completely eliminated the 10-14 range, something that might be very valuable to a GM who has picked in that range several times.

 

[BenchBrawl]

So I voted 4 rounds out of 5 and I get no reward? There should be a gradation or something.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

If we wanted the reward to be greater, we could allow qualifying GMs to move 2 balls instead of just 1, but with the caveat that a GM could not have more than 2 balls in a single group.

Example from above continued, GM A moves his 10-14 ball to the 20-24 drawing:

5-9: 2 balls
10-14: 0 balls
15-19: 0 balls
20-24: 2 balls

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

So I voted 4 rounds out of 5 and I get no reward? There should be a gradation or something.

I show you voting in 4 of 6, unless you're proposing the regular season shouldn't count, which I don't see why that would be, especially in a year when all teams did not make the playoffs.

We've never had a gradation before when handing out this kind of reward, but feel free to propose something.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I show you voting in 4 of 6, unless you're proposing the regular season shouldn't count, which I don't see why that would be, especially in a year when all teams did not make the playoffs.

We've never had a gradation before when handing out this kind of reward, but feel free to propose something.

I don't mind either way. It's not about me, but if someone misses the 1st round of voting, then he has no incentive to continue on voting. Personally, I'm fine with any spot in the draft and have no preference at this point.

 

[Theokritos]

As participants, IE and TDMM were not eligible to vote in the Final, so they should get counted as voting that round. Considering that, I count 11 GMs who participated in every vote:

@ChiTownPhilly
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

Thanks!

The extra ball is a nice idea, but it assumes GMs want to pick early, which is often not the case. If @
Theokritos is willing to put in the work, I would propose the following:

A separate drawing for the top 4 picks where everyone has an equal chance.

Break up the rest of the draft into 4 groups (if we have 24 teams those would be an even 5 picks each: 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24)

Sounds good to me.

Starting with the assumption that each GM will have 1 ball in each of the above 4 group drawings, allow the GMs that participated in every vote last year to "move" 1 of their balls.

Example:
GM A starts off as follows:
5-9: 1 ball
10-14: 1 ball
15-19: 1 ball
20-24: 1 ball

GM A who participated in every vote last year tells @Theokritos he wants his 15-19 ball moved to the 5-9 drawing. GM A's drawings now look like this:

5-9: 2 balls
10-14: 1 balls
15-19: 0 balls
20-24: 1 ball

GM A now has an extra chance at the 5-9 range, but has also completely eliminated the 10-14 range, something that might be very valuable to a GM who has picked in that range several times.

Interesting idea, I will think about it some more.

So I voted 4 rounds out of 5 and I get no reward? There should be a gradation or something.

I count 4 out of 6. Three other GMs are in the same boat. And two others have 5 out of 6. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of gradation in the reward.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

First thing that comes to mind for a gradation would be to let those who voted in 4 or 5 out of 6 add an extra ball to one drawing, but not have the moving option (i.e. they are still in every drawing).

 

[VanIslander]

I count 11 GMs who participated in every vote:

@ChiTownPhilly
@Dreakmur
@Habsfan18
@Hawkey Town 18
@ImporterExporter
@Namba 17
@ResilientBeast
@rmartin65
@TheDevilMadeMe
@tinyzombies
@tony d

They derserve to be rewarded.

Follow the K.I.S.S. principle.

Just have them choose whether they want a pick near the top, middle or bottom of the draft. Easy. Then randomize their position into 1-8, 9-16, or 17-24 (if a 24-team draft). Then all other teams are randomized among the remaining 1-24 slots.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

They derserve to be rewarded.

Follow the K.I.S.S. principle.

Just have them choose whether they want a pick near the top, middle or bottom of the draft. Easy. Then randomize their position into 1-8, 9-16, or 17-24 (if a 24-team draft). Then all other teams are randomized among the remaining 1-24 slots.

If 8 of the 11 GMs were to pick 1-8, then no one else would have a chance at those picks. That seems like a bit too much to me.

I'm also a fan of giving everybody a shot at the Big 4.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

They derserve to be rewarded.

Follow the K.I.S.S. principle.

Just have them choose whether they want a pick near the top, middle or bottom of the draft. Easy. Then randomize their position into 1-8, 9-16, or 17-24 (if a 24-team draft). Then all other teams are randomized among the remaining 1-24 slots.

But aren't 1-4 and 5-10 different "tiers" of starting positions?

 

[VanIslander]

1-4 is the only clear tier.

Simply make that set of picks open to all in an initial randomizing round. Then preferential early, middle, late from pick 5 for those who voted in all rounds.

 

[VanIslander]

Whatever method is chosen, don't overcomplicate it.

After all, we can swap draft positions predraft. Not all want a top-4 or top-10 pick. In fact, in the past late first round pick positions have been in demand.

I personally prefer the middle of a round. It lessens the risks of a run of picks on a specific position; as well, it's easier to predict next round options.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Whatever method is chosen, don't overcomplicate it.

After all, we can swap draft positions predraft. Not all want a top-4 or top-10 pick. In fact, in the past late first round pick positions have been in demand.

I personally prefer the middle of a round. It lessens the risks of a run of picks on a specific position; as well, it's easier to predict next round options.

Swapping positions is only possible if you find a partner (possibly before someone else does).

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't mind either way. It's not about me, but if someone misses the 1st round of voting, then he has no incentive to continue on voting. Personally, I'm fine with any spot in the draft and have no preference at this point.

if you have to incentivize somebody’s vote, I’m not sure I want them to vote.

 

[BenchBrawl]

if you have to incentivize somebody’s vote, I’m not sure I want them to vote.

Good point.

 

[VanIslander]

We all have a responsibility to vote.

Sometimes life gets busy and we miss one or two votes.

Rewarding those few who manage to vote every time is an encouragement to those who only miss one or two to squeeze in time and effort to get that one or two more done.

Those who don't vote after the regular season standings won't care at all about this issue.

 

[Theokritos]

So I thought about the idea of moving balls from one tier to the other. Two issues: 1: It doubles the work because I not only have to track who has additional balls in the tier at hand, but also who has zero balls in that tier. 2: If too many GMs move out of the same tier, we could end up with a number of GMs smaller than the number of picks that are supposed to be assigned in that tier. 4 picks, but only 3 GMs with balls in tier – that's not viable.

 

[ImporterExporter]

How did we do the reward system before? I vaguely remember us rewarding GM's in the past (might have been 2014 or 15). Why don't we stick with whatever the template was in the past if it were successful?

I really don't want to see things get overly complicated, one, for @Theokritos sake, and two for the overall flow of the project.

Once sign ups end I'd like to be able to simply randomize an order and get moving. At the very least, if we're going to agree to do some sort of alteration as it pertains to setting the order, it needs to be fully ironed out before the end of next week.