ATD 2021 Lineup Advice Thread

[Dreakmur]

You're lacking a true #1 PP point man, but nothing you can do about that now, and you have Gretzky, and he makes up for a lot. Also seems like you don't really have the forwards to put Conacher on the point (also not sure if I'd buy him there, he does have a hard shot). I'd go with Stapleton - Subban on the first unit and Niedermayer - Doughty on the second unit.

Yeah, when I took Plante, I did that at the expense of a PP QB. Both Niedermayer and Doughty are kinda ES specialists.

Conacher played two full seasons as a defenseman, and was second in scoring both seasons. Not sure I want him back there, but I see no reason he can't do it well.

If Barry is on your 1st unit, who is centering your 2nd unit? Weiland could maybe do it, but not ideal and if he's PKing that's a lot of minutes for him. Maybe draft a 4th line center for the 2nd PP? Gretzky will get a lot of PP time anyway, so it's a reduced role.

There's still plenty of centres who can man the second unit.

I guess that leaves you with Bauer and Marchand as the 2nd unit wings. Seems the point men will be the strength of that unit.

I'm thinking Phillips and Bauer on the second unit. Phillips is still better than Marchand, I think.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I'm thinking Phillips and Bauer on the second unit. Phillips is still better than Marchand, I think.

I'm not sure on the difference between the two, but 1st line ES, top PK, 2nd PP is a lot of minutes for Phillips. Marchand and Sutter would have to fill in on some ES shifts, as you'll want Gretzky-Conacher out there a lot. So there's a question to ask yourself, if Phillips is better on the PP, is it worth him losing some ES time to those guys?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If you're going to play Phillips on the first line and PK, give him as little PP time as possible. His offense is really hard to figure out, but I don't think it's that great, anyway.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

So... you want him to take the C off one of the best captains ever and put in on either a guy who was never a captain, or a guy who was a captain for to seasons before being stripped?

Narrow minded. This is the ATD, not the past. The ATD is speculation about new rosters and new chemistry.

Toews is one the most overrated players in NHL history. He was considered top 2 in 2015 by some. Look at his post-2015 stats. Name all the SC champs ever captained by a 3rd line center.

Dreak, these are the real players. That's why we use bios. This is not a video game, but keep on believing that there are size adjustments in the ATD.

 

[overpass]

Narrow minded. This is the ATD, not the past. The ATD is speculation about new rosters and new chemistry.

Toews is one the most overrated players in NHL history. He was considered top 2 in 2015 by some. Look at his post-2015 stats. Name all the SC champs ever captained by a 3rd line center.

Dreak, these are the real players. That's why we use bios. This is not a video game, but keep on believing that there are size adjustments in the ATD.

2004 Lightning (Dave Andreychuk)
1993 Canadiens (Guy Carbonneau)
1989 Flames (Lanny McDonald)
1986 Canadiens (Bob Gainey)
1973 Canadiens (Henri Richard)
1967 Leafs (George Armstrong)
1961 Black Hawks (Ed Litzenberger)
1945 Leafs (Bob Davidson)

were all captained by 3rd liners.

Toews is also underrated by many. His line took on the tough matchups and won them which was a big part of Chicago’s success. The Toews-Hossa combination in particular had a huge impact on winning.

 

[Dreakmur]

Narrow minded. This is the ATD, not the past. The ATD is speculation about new rosters and new chemistry.

Toews is one the most overrated players in NHL history. He was considered top 2 in 2015 by some. Look at his post-2015 stats. Name all the SC champs ever captained by a 3rd line center.

Dreak, these are the real players. That's why we use bios. This is not a video game, but keep on believing that there are size adjustments in the ATD.

Speaking of the bios we use, I would encourage you to read the one I did on Toews in the 2020 draft.

 

[tony d]

Here’s my starting lineup:

Bill Barber-Bobby Clarke-Teemu Selanne
Syd Howe-Mike Modano-Gordie Drillon
Charlie Simmer-Joe Primeau-Jimmy Ward
Mats Naslund-Fleming Mackell-Owen Nolan

Larry Robinson-Ivan Johnson
Carl Brewer-Babe Pratt
Art Duncan-Lloyd Cook

Any thoughts or comments about this? Anything I should target with my bench players? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[RustyRazor]

"C" Letter wearers on my squad include: Crosby, Mikhailov, Stewart, Sakic, Lewis, Broadbent, Colville, Gare, Muller, Blake, Schoenfeld, and Heller.

I've got Crosby as captain and Sakic and Blake as alternates. Anyone have a better combo to suggest?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

"C" Letter wearers on my squad include: Crosby, Mikhailov, Stewart, Sakic, Lewis, Broadbent, Colville, Gare, Muller, Blake, Schoenfeld, and Heller.

I've got Crosby as captain and Sakic and Blake as alternates. Anyone have a better combo to suggest?

Is that Rob Blake?

I'd do Crosby at C, Mikhailov and Sakic as As

 

[RustyRazor]

Is that Rob Blake?

I'd do Crosby at C, Mikhailov and Sakic as As

Yes, I guess that's an important distinction. the reason I chose Blake was to have a D with a letter.

 

[MadArcand]

You have so much talent, but I have 2 issues:

1) That top 6 is just soft
2) the original 4th line has at least some grit from everyone and defense from Starsh, but in the offensive zone it's basically just 3 net presence guys playing together. It's just a 4th line, but still I think it could function better.

So after playing with multiple versions of your lineup, I thought maybe this could work?

Valeri Kharlamov - Doug Gilmour - Andy Bathgate (still pretty soft, but maybe you're just stuck that way).
Sweeney Schriner - Pavel Datsyuk - Dino Ciccarelli (still not the best line in the corners, but Dino gets the dirty goals the line otherwise wouldn't)
X - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Nikita Kucherov (the best part about drafting Starsh late is that you can actually use Kucherov next to him without wasting Kuch. X would need to be a Wayne Cashman style player though, not Andreychuk)
Craig Ramsay - Ryan Kesler - Jere Lehtinen

FWIW, I don't think Dino is that much better than Andreychuk, but I think he adds just a little more grit.

IMO Gilmour makes the 1st line non-soft, but anyway..
I think Andreychuk may've been a bit of a blunder, so I just picked Liba to replace him in the starting 12. Can work on 4th line as Liba - Starshinov - Ciccarelli work better together, however it also opens the door for something like
Kharlamov/Schriner - Gilmour - Bathgate
Schriner/Kharlamov - Datsyuk - Ciccarelli
Liba - Starshinov - Kucherov
Ramsay - Kesler - Lehtinen

What do you think? Particularly where Kharlamov & Schriner fit better.

 

[BraveCanadian]

IMO Gilmour makes the 1st line non-soft, but anyway..

Yeah, Gilmour is the complete opposite of a soft player but I don't think its best to rely on a undersized guy to be the only grit on a line.

 

[tinyzombies]

Gilmour has a way to lift a whole team to play harder tho, so it's his grit and dirtiness amplified. Maybe he would inspire Bathgate to use his muscles. lol

Better have some dmen who can fight if you have Gilmour and Ciccarelli in your top 6 and none of your forwards are fighters.

But lineup criticism here never seems to look at matchups of the teams, it only looks at first line vs first line, etc., so more of a history project than an actual tourney where the teams face each other. Of course this was never made explicit until much later... but alas.

 

[Dreakmur]

Tommy Phillips - Wayne Gretzky - Charlie Conacher
Brad Marchand - Marty Barry - Bobby Bauer
Artemi Panarin - Cooney Weiland - Claude Provost
Brian Sutter - Camille Henry - Floyd Curry

Scott Niedermayer - Drew Doughty
Pat Stapleton - Bill White
Ryan McDonagh - PK Subban

Jacques Plante
Henrik Lundqvist

Based on that starting lineup, Gretzky is obviously the C. Niedermayer and Sutter seem to be the best options for As. After that, McDonagh.

Any thoughts?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Based on that starting lineup, Gretzky is obviously the C. Niedermayer and Sutter seem to be the best options for As. After that, McDonagh.

Any thoughts?

I don't like the idea of a 4th liner having a letter. Gretzky and Niedermayer are obvious C and A. After that, I don't know. Your 3rd letter is going to be weak no matter what. McDonaugh has some credit, but bottom pairing letter isn't ideal. Weiland was captain for a year. Tommy Phillips was captain of Kenora? I'd lean towards Phillips as the 2nd A I guess.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't like the idea of a 4th liner having a letter. Gretzky and Niedermayer are obvious C and A. After that, I don't know. Your 3rd letter is going to be weak no matter what. McDonaugh has some credit, but bottom pairing letter isn't ideal. Weiland was captain for a year. Tommy Phillips was captain of Kenora? I'd lean towards Phillips as the 2nd A I guess.

4th liners, I get why having a letter could be problematic. Bottom pairing defensemen play about as much as second line forwards, so they play plenty.

 

[nabby12]

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Jack Stewart - Lionel Hitchman
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton
Sandis Ozolinsh

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters:

PP1: Krutov, Morenz, Mosienko - Conacher, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Cowley, Hay - Stewart, Fredrickson
PK1: Frederickson, Tocchet, Stewart, Horner
PK2: Morris, Morenz, Conacher, Hitchman

Here is my team. Any thoughts on how I should set my lines and special teams lines would be greatly appreciated!​

 

[Johnny Engine]

I like the Rick Tocch Dick Doch line.

 

[Professor What]

I've been thinking about my penalty kill now that I feel that my power play is squared away (thanks to everyone who chimed in there) and since I theoretically have my main roster filled. For my forward pairings, I'm considering going with Francis-Bondra and Hunter-Noble. I'm much less sure about my defensive pairings. Gadsby played both an offensive and defensive leaning style in various parts of his career, and I've seen that others have used him on the PK in past drafts. Zubov is obviously offensively minded, but was used on the PK to great effect in Dallas. I find it tempting to keep my top two defensive pairs intact for the PK for the sake of chemistry over the course of the season, but since, even with the four forward PP I've decided to go with, Gadsby and Zubov are going to be logging significant minutes in all three facets of the game, I'm wondering if I shouldn't at least occasionally rotate Foote and Watson in on the PK.

I'm very open to forward suggestions if someone possibly sees better setups, but more than anything, I'm interested in how I might best handle my defensemen. I had the PK in mind as one of the factors that led me to choosing Zubov, but I feel like I might have lucked into a situation where I have six guys that are capable, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't utilize it.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Jack Stewart - Lionel Hitchman
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton
Sandis Ozolinsh

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters:

PP1: Krutov, Morenz, Mosienko - Conacher, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Cowley, Hay - Stewart, Fredrickson
PK1: Frederickson, Tocchet, Stewart, Horner
PK2: Morris, Morenz, Conacher, Hitchman

Here is my team. Any thoughts on how I should set my lines and special teams lines would be greatly appreciated!​

None of your top 3 RWs would really help Cowley out defensively, so you might as well put Brett Hull next to him as a triggerman. I think either Morris or Mosienko is better suited for Morenz's speed game than Hull, right?

You really seem to have gone with the old school "forwards score, defenders defend" line of thought, which makes it a little tough to figure out the special teams. Even though he's your weakest overall dman, I think you might want to dress Ozolinsh just so you have someone who can provide offense on the point of the PP. Conacher is probably your best offensive defenseman otherwise, which isn't really ideal. I'm not aware of any of your forwards playing point on the PP, but I could be missing someone.

No real defensive or PK specialist types up front (unless I'm missing something on Murdoch?), so you pretty much have to have your best two-way forwards PK. I would do Morenz-Joliat-Hitchman-Stewart, Krutov-Fredrickson-Conacher-Dutton as the PK with the players on this roster.

Hitchman was strictly LD IIRC. Again, IIRC, Stewart might have played both sides.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I've been thinking about my penalty kill now that I feel that my power play is squared away (thanks to everyone who chimed in there) and since I theoretically have my main roster filled. For my forward pairings, I'm considering going with Francis-Bondra and Hunter-Noble. I'm much less sure about my defensive pairings. Gadsby played both an offensive and defensive leaning style in various parts of his career, and I've seen that others have used him on the PK in past drafts. Zubov is obviously offensively minded, but was used on the PK to great effect in Dallas. I find it tempting to keep my top two defensive pairs intact for the PK for the sake of chemistry over the course of the season, but since, even with the four forward PP I've decided to go with, Gadsby and Zubov are going to be logging significant minutes in all three facets of the game, I'm wondering if I shouldn't at least occasionally rotate Foote and Watson in on the PK.

I'm very open to forward suggestions if someone possibly sees better setups, but more than anything, I'm interested in how I might best handle my defensemen. I had the PK in mind as one of the factors that led me to choosing Zubov, but I feel like I might have lucked into a situation where I have six guys that are capable, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't utilize it.

Nothing wrong with having extra PKers - some of us put incomplete PK3 units in our roster posts (usually just forwards, but either is fine) to demonstrate depth. So you might have your 3rd pair of defensemen come out with your 1st set of forwards. And hey, if you're changing your PKers a lot, that means you're icing the puck a lot too.
I understand the appeal of running your regular pairs out, but I just think Hatcher-Vasiliev looks like an absolute monster of a PK pair that voters will really like.

 

[Professor What]

Nothing wrong with having extra PKers - some of us put incomplete PK3 units in our roster posts (usually just forwards, but either is fine) to demonstrate depth. So you might have your 3rd pair of defensemen come out with your 1st set of forwards. And hey, if you're changing your PKers a lot, that means you're icing the puck a lot too.
I understand the appeal of running your regular pairs out, but I just think Hatcher-Vasiliev looks like an absolute monster of a PK pair that voters will really like.

If I paired up Hatcher and Vasliev, wouldn't that make rotating my d-men for the other pairing even more key? Personally, I think there's enough about Gadsby, especially his time in Detroit to suggest that he's capable of strong defensive play, but it's also been pointed out to me that others might view him as an offensive defenseman that gives a bit of defense. Zubov, even with his PK reputation, is primarily known as an offensive defenseman. So, if I put Hatcher-Vasliev down as one pairing, am I thinking correctly if I say that, rather than having a more offensively minded pair I should have co-pairs of Gadsby-Foote and Watson-Zubov? If that's way off base, feel free to say so.

As for the idea of a 3rd PK forward unit, I don't want to put McDavid out there with his faceoff "prowess," but I'm wondering about Gilbert. Would he be good enough in the faceoff circle to pair up with say, Dick Duff to make a forward pairing? If so, I could potentially put together three full units. I do like the sound of that for limiting ice time.

 

[overpass]

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Jack Stewart - Lionel Hitchman
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton
Sandis Ozolinsh

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters:

PP1: Krutov, Morenz, Mosienko - Conacher, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Cowley, Hay - Stewart, Fredrickson
PK1: Frederickson, Tocchet, Stewart, Horner
PK2: Morris, Morenz, Conacher, Hitchman

Here is my team. Any thoughts on how I should set my lines and special teams lines would be greatly appreciated!​

Mosienko seems like the sort of wing who would really benefit from Cowley's playmaking.

Hull with Morenz and Joliat should work just fine with Morenz and Joliat flying around and Hull popping up out of nowhere to score.

I'd love to reunite George Hay and Dick Irvin as linemates but it probably works better the way you have them lined up. I don't think I would change your forward lines at all.

Power play -- I would put both Cowley and Morenz on the top unit and drop Mosienko. Morenz played some right wing, especially in the 20s before full line changes were the norm -- Pit Lepine would come in at C and Morenz would switch to RW. Then I would put Dick Irvin on the second unit. The unit could use his shooting ability, with Joliat and Hay as playmakers, and he should have chemistry with George Hay.

Penalty kill -- I would want to find room for Murray Murdoch, maybe in place of Tocchet or Morris.

 

[Johnny Engine]

If I paired up Hatcher and Vasliev, wouldn't that make rotating my d-men for the other pairing even more key? Personally, I think there's enough about Gadsby, especially his time in Detroit to suggest that he's capable of strong defensive play, but it's also been pointed out to me that others might view him as an offensive defenseman that gives a bit of defense. Zubov, even with his PK reputation, is primarily known as an offensive defenseman. So, if I put Hatcher-Vasliev down as one pairing, am I thinking correctly if I say that, rather than having a more offensively minded pair I should have co-pairs of Gadsby-Foote and Watson-Zubov? If that's way off base, feel free to say so.

As for the idea of a 3rd PK forward unit, I don't want to put McDavid out there with his faceoff "prowess," but I'm wondering about Gilbert. Would he be good enough in the faceoff circle to pair up with say, Dick Duff to make a forward pairing? If so, I could potentially put together three full units. I do like the sound of that for limiting ice time.

Those seem like good PK pairs, though I wouldn't be concerned about balancing your D-men stylewise. Zubov's not there to take the puck carrying responsibilities for his partner, they both can just fire the puck down the ice. He'd be there because he's good enough at the specific task of killing penalties.

So if he and Gadsby are out there, they're either good enough or not good enough to kill ATD penalties, you can make the argument (I think they're fine). And as PK2 or PK3 guys, if they're facing my team, they're pushing Joe Pavelski out of the slot, not Brendan Shanahan, so the job is more forgiving.

Can't say I really see a 3rd unit of forwards on your roster, but if you can provide evidence, there's not much wrong with trying it. I'd find an extra PKer to pair with Duff, myself, as you're going to want a guy to replace Hunter when he's in the box.

Also, please list your second unit as "Noble - Hunter", because it'll amuse me.

 

[RustyRazor]

Nels Stewart - Sidney Crosby - Boris Mikhailov
Herbie Lewis - Joe Sakic - Punch Broadbent
Don Marcotte - Neil Colville - Danny Gare
Kirk Muller - Butch Goring - Tim Kerr*

*Broadbent/Gare/Marcotte will take shifts in defensive zone faceoffs and for specific match-ups

Börje Salming - Guy Lapointe
Herb Gardiner - Rob Blake
Jim Schoenfeld - Ott Heller

Roy Worters
Tim Thomas

Extra Skaters:

PP1: Blake - Lapointe
Kerr - Crosby - Sakic

PP2: Heller - Salming
Gare - Stewart - Mikhailov

PK1: Gardiner - Schoenfeld
Colville - Marcotte

PK2: Salming - Lapointe
Goring - Broadbent
​

Impressions of my 19 who will dress on the regular?