ATD 2021 - Jim Robson Division First Round (3) Arizona Coyotes v. (6) Gallifrey TARDIS

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,604
28,841
Arizona Coyotes

Coach: Anatoli Tarasov

Busher Jackson --- Cyclone Taylor --- Daniel Alfredsson
Tommy Smith --- Newsy Lalonde (A) --- Mickey MacKay
Gordon Roberts --- Jack Walker --- Eddie Oatman
Dean Prentice --- Pit Lepine --- Bruce MacGregor

Ebbie Goodfellow (A) --- Dit Clapper (C)
Ken Reardon --- Jack Crawford
Frank Patrick --- Lennart Svedberg

Patrick Roy
Hugh Lehman


Spares: David Backes (C/RW), Glen Harmon (D), Patrick Sharp (F)

PP1: Jackson - Lalonde - Smith - Taylor - Goodfellow
PP2: Clapper - MacKay - Roberts - Patrick - Alfredsson

PK1: Lepine - Walker - Reardon - Clapper
PK2: MacKay - Prentice - Goodfellow - Crawford


VERSUS


GALIFREY TARDIS


Coach: Dick Irvin
Captain: Ted Lindsay
Alternates: Valeri Vasiliev, Derian Hatcher

First Line: Ted Lindsay - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Second Line: Reg Noble - Gilbert Perreault - Helmuts Balderis
Third Line: Dick Duff - Connor McDavid - Peter Bondra
Fourth Line: Rick Nash - Dale Hunter - Pit Martin

First Pairing: Bill Gadsby - Valeri Vasiliev
Second Pairing: Derian Hatcher - Sergei Zubov
Third Pairing: Jimmy Watson - Adam Foote

Spare Skaters: Wilf Paiement, Rod Seiling, Ken Linseman

First Power Play Unit:
Ted Lindsay - Gilbert Perreault - Maurice Richard
Ron Francis - Sergei Zubov

Second Power Play Unit:
Rick Nash - Connor McDavid - Helmuts Balderis
Reg Noble - Bill Gadsby

First Penalty Kill Unit:
Dale Hunter - Reg Noble
Derian Hatcher - Valeri Vasiliev

Second Penalty Kill Unit:
Ron Francis - Peter Bondra
Jimmy Watson - Sergei Zubov

Third Penalty Kill Unit:
Pit Martin - Dick Duff
Bill Gadsby - Adam Foote

Goaltending: Tony Esposito, Tiny Thompson
 
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ResilientBeast

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Here's to a good series @Professor What

Your team looks to be a good matchup for my own. I'll make a substitution and move Walker to 3C and bump Backes to the bench replacing him MacGregor. I'll edit the OP to reflect this.

Francis is the only C you really have capable of being depended on to counter another top C. With Lalonde and Taylor one of them will get a favorable matchup. I have plenty of checking capable wingers to throw at Lindsay and Richard, Prentice especially will get heavy time against Richard
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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Here's to a good series @Professor What

Your team looks to be a good matchup for my own. I'll make a substitution and move Walker to 3C and bump Backes to the bench replacing him MacGregor. I'll edit the OP to reflect this.

Francis is the only C you really have capable of being depended on to counter another top C. With Lalonde and Taylor one of them will get a favorable matchup. I have plenty of checking capable wingers to throw at Lindsay and Richard, Prentice especially will get heavy time against Richard

Dean Prentice is an excellent even strength scorer. He's a gritty competitor, hard-working and good defensively.... but is he really "shut down Maurice Richard" good defensively?
 

ResilientBeast

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Dean Prentice is an excellent even strength scorer. He's a gritty competitor, hard-working and good defensively.... but is he really "shut down Maurice Richard" good defensively?

I didn't even come close to saying he'd "shut him down"

From seventies bio

New York Rangers Greatest Moments and Players said:
He's not in the Hockey Hall Of Fame, but many believe that Dean Prentice is a worthy candidate for the shrine. Certainly those who played alongside the left wing would attest to that... Indefatigable, Prentice was known as "Deano the Dynamo" for his tenacious checking and excellent speed. He was as good a two-way forward as the Rangers owned in that era... always one of the best and most reliable Ranger forwards... Prentice's first two years were statistically unimpressive, but the left winger's hard work at both ends of the ice soon paid off... When he was not out on the offensive prowl, Dean found himself playing strong defense - he was even placed as a forward among defensemen when the Blueshirts were playing with a five-on-three disadvantage... A fearless skater, Prentice even played the immortal Gordie Howe so thoroughly that a frustrated Gordie threatened to knock out his teeth... Prentice played the game as it should be played. He wasn't afraid to go into the corners and dig the puck out; he could skate, stickhandle, pass, and shoot. Though Dean may have lacked size, he was always the consummate team player, displaying both grit and determination.

If he could do that to Gordie I feel like he's a good matchup for Richard.

Can we please not starting putting words in my mouth after my first post lol
 

Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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You wrote "shut down Maurice Richard" as if you were quoting me?

Sorry for assuming I took the meaning as if you were counting a claim I made, not just a general statement

I used quotes as an attempt to indicate "shut down Richard good" was a label for a category of players that is super elite.

Perhaps the way I asked the question was a tad confusing. I phrased it as a question because I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond. My picture of Prentice is pretty clear, after having him last year, but there's always a chance you could have uncovered something cool.
 
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Professor What

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Feeling like a deer in the headlights right now, but I'm going to give this a shot.

I think for this round, I'd probably flip my third and fourth line left wings. That gives me three big time scoring lines, which I don't think you'll be able to counter. I think the balance on the top line is enough to ensure that they're going to get theirs no matter what. When I have the last change, Francis will be matched up against whichever of your top two centers seems to have the hotter hand, and the fourth line will get some minutes against the other, to make sure there's still a thorn in their side.

Playoff officiating ought to suit my team just fine as well. There's plenty of grit in the lineup that will have a heyday with the "let them play" philosophy. Putting so many of those guys in the lineup was in a hope that it would pay off postseason.

Edit: I'll add that I have two rested goalies. Neither carried a heavy regular season load.
 

nabby12

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Nov 11, 2008
1,515
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Winnipeg
Feeling like a deer in the headlights right now, but I'm going to give this a shot.

I think for this round, I'd probably flip my third and fourth line left wings. That gives me three big time scoring lines, which I don't think you'll be able to counter. I think the balance on the top line is enough to ensure that they're going to get theirs no matter what. When I have the last change, Francis will be matched up against whichever of your top two centers seems to have the hotter hand, and the fourth line will get some minutes against the other, to make sure there's still a thorn in their side.

Playoff officiating ought to suit my team just fine as well. There's plenty of grit in the lineup that will have a heyday with the "let them play" philosophy. Putting so many of those guys in the lineup was in a hope that it would pay off postseason.

Edit: I'll add that I have two rested goalies. Neither carried a heavy regular season load.

I really like your matchup here. I feel it’s going to be extremely difficult to stop your top 3 forward lines from scoring.

Your top line is one of the best this ATD has to offer. And Gilbert Perreault is a fantastic 2C.

Also, McDavid is still very underrated here even though he’s trending towards “GOAT” territory in the modern-day NHL. Pairing him with an elite sniper in Bondra is sure to cause havoc for your opponent.

Both teams defence’s are similar.

Your opponent does have a major edge in goaltending with Roy as I’m not sold on the playoff Tony Esposito. I would look at starting Tiny Thompson in this series or at least have Tony O on a short leash.

This series will go down to the wire. Roy will need to be the difference maker if his team hopes to win.
 

Professor What

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Your opponent does have a major edge in goaltending with Roy as I’m not sold on the playoff Tony Esposito. I would look at starting Tiny Thompson in this series or at least have Tony O on a short leash.

I want to defend Tony O a little here. While I'm not going to dispute that my opponent has a goaltending edge, as Roy is a top 2 all time goalie in my book, and probably tops in playoff performance, I really believe that the biggest problem Esposito had in the playoffs was that he was always worn out from playing nearly the entire season. I suspect that having pretty evenly split duties in the regular season, he'd be much closer to the '71 version of himself that went toe to toe with Dryden.

Also, I have full intentions of giving both guys playing time in the playoffs to keep them fresh. If one guy gets hot, sure, we ride him. If one guy is off, the other guy gets more time. But I think that plan gives full chances to see who's got it at the moment and let that guy carry things if need be. It also won't hurt that I do feel like my offense has a good chance to tilt the ice either.
 
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ResilientBeast

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Feeling like a deer in the headlights right now, but I'm going to give this a shot.

I think for this round, I'd probably flip my third and fourth line left wings. That gives me three big time scoring lines, which I don't think you'll be able to counter. I think the balance on the top line is enough to ensure that they're going to get theirs no matter what. When I have the last change, Francis will be matched up against whichever of your top two centers seems to have the hotter hand, and the fourth line will get some minutes against the other, to make sure there's still a thorn in their side.

Playoff officiating ought to suit my team just fine as well. There's plenty of grit in the lineup that will have a heyday with the "let them play" philosophy. Putting so many of those guys in the lineup was in a hope that it would pay off postseason.

Edit: I'll add that I have two rested goalies. Neither carried a heavy regular season load.

You've got three scoring lines sure....but only your top line can really go power on power. McDavid is better this season defensively but he's still a sieve ultimately and will Bondra and Nash be able to cover for him? Highly unlikely.

I also have Lehman to give Roy rest during the regular season so it's not like he'll be tired by the time we make it here.

I really like your matchup here. I feel it’s going to be extremely difficult to stop your top 3 forward lines from scoring.

Your top line is one of the best this ATD has to offer. And Gilbert Perreault is a fantastic 2C.

Also, McDavid is still very underrated here even though he’s trending towards “GOAT” territory in the modern-day NHL. Pairing him with an elite sniper in Bondra is sure to cause havoc for your opponent.

Both teams defence’s are similar.

Your opponent does have a major edge in goaltending with Roy as I’m not sold on the playoff Tony Esposito. I would look at starting Tiny Thompson in this series or at least have Tony O on a short leash.

This series will go down to the wire. Roy will need to be the difference maker if his team hopes to win.

How is he going to stop Lalonde and Taylor, Francis can only check one of them and he isn't even really a "shut down" guy

Jack Walker and Pit Lepin will be able to help check McDavid and Perrault and slow them down.

Yeah McDavid and Bondra will cause havoc before they turn the puck over and bleed GA.

On defense, Gadsby and Clapper of a similar tier for sure and I'd agree that we're likely equal in aggregate.

Roy is the biggest advantage either team has here and he is the difference-maker, I would call my defense solid but below average but they're backstopped by the greatest playoff goalie of all time. And if our defense are of equal calibre is Esposito really the guy to outduel Roy?

Edit: Omg Perrault an awesome 2C? What must you think about Lalonde then geez. Francis and Gilbert are both solid 2Cs in a draft this size. Taylor and Lalonde are going feast on this competition at center.
 
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Professor What

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You've got three scoring lines sure....but only your top line can really go power on power. McDavid is better this season defensively but he's still a sieve ultimately and will Bondra and Nash be able to cover for him? Highly unlikely.

I also have Lehman to give Roy rest during the regular season so it's not like he'll be tired by the time we make it here.



How is he going to stop Lalonde and Taylor, Francis can only check one of them and he isn't even really a "shut down" guy

Jack Walker and Pit Lepin will be able to help check McDavid and Perrault and slow them down.

Yeah McDavid and Bondra will cause havoc before they turn the puck over and bleed GA.

On defense, Gadsby and Clapper of a similar tier for sure and I'd agree that we're likely equal in aggregate.

Roy is the biggest advantage either team has here and he is the difference-maker, I would call my defense solid but below average but they're backstopped by the greatest playoff goalie of all time. And if our defense are of equal calibre is Esposito really the guy to outduel Roy?

Edit: Omg Perrault an awesome 2C? What must you think about Lalonde then geez. Francis and Gilbert are both solid 2Cs in a draft this size. Taylor and Lalonde are going feast on this competition at center.

I didn't call Roy's "restedness" into question. I didn't call anything about him into question. The only thing I disputed was Esposito's playoff image since I firmly believe that his struggles in the playoffs are largely a result of overwork in the regular season. Again, you have a clear advantage in net, but I don't think it's as big as portrayed because I think Esposito is better than portrayed in this scenario, and even so, Thompson has an excellent playoff record which is marred only by team support issues. He's not going to have that here.

As for Roy backstopping a below average defense, you'd better hope he's on top of his game. He's going to face a barrage of shots. I don't dispute that my forward unit isn't top notch defensively. Neither was that of the 80s Oilers. It's the tilting of the ice that's going to be their strength, and I think it's a pretty powerful strength. Get to the blue line, and there is solid defending capability though. Four of them are primarily known for the defense, and Gadsby proved that he could excel in either an offensive or defensive role in his career. Zubov is the biggest "weakness" in that case, and he and Hatcher make for an excellent pairing. I think the area that my blue liners lack more is on offense, and I'm not worried about that with what I can generate up front.

Also, the more I've thought about it, the more I think I'm going to have my top line try to shadow your top line. I love Alfredsson as a Senators fan, but Ted Lindsay would be a total nightmare scenario for him.
 

ResilientBeast

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I didn't call Roy's "restedness" into question. I didn't call anything about him into question. The only thing I disputed was Esposito's playoff image since I firmly believe that his struggles in the playoffs are largely a result of overwork in the regular season. Again, you have a clear advantage in net, but I don't think it's as big as portrayed because I think Esposito is better than portrayed in this scenario, and even so, Thompson has an excellent playoff record which is marred only by team support issues. He's not going to have that here.

As for Roy backstopping a below average defense, you'd better hope he's on top of his game. He's going to face a barrage of shots. I don't dispute that my forward unit isn't top notch defensively. Neither was that of the 80s Oilers. It's the tilting of the ice that's going to be their strength, and I think it's a pretty powerful strength. Get to the blue line, and there is solid defending capability though. Four of them are primarily known for the defense, and Gadsby proved that he could excel in either an offensive or defensive role in his career. Zubov is the biggest "weakness" in that case, and he and Hatcher make for an excellent pairing. I think the area that my blue liners lack more is on offense, and I'm not worried about that with what I can generate up front.

Also, the more I've thought about it, the more I think I'm going to have my top line try to shadow your top line. I love Alfredsson as a Senators fan, but Ted Lindsay would be a total nightmare scenario for him.

Given your forward personnel Esposito/Thompson is going to get it way worse IMO. I have two lines capable of defending at a high level and I'm not sure if your team has the same. Reardon is probably the least competent defensive guy in the top 4 on the backend, the others are just as competent at offense and defence as their counterparts on the other end. Reardon is lining up with Crawford an excellent positional defensive guy to cover for when Reardon is doing Reardon things. Trying to separate our defences is splitting hairs IMO

From my readings on Tarasov I don't think he was one for matchups so Irvin can try, but Tarasov is likely to just roll the lines.

Edit: Tilting the ice? You have one line that can do that IMO I have two. Your top line is stacked to give you an advantage but I have two scoring lines stronger than either of your either "scoring lines" combined with the poor group defending of your forward unit Irvin has to hope your goalie can stop the bleeding
 

Professor What

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Given your forward personnel Esposito/Thompson is going to get it way worse IMO. I have two lines capable of defending at a high level and I'm not sure if your team has the same. Reardon is probably the least competent defensive guy in the top 4 on the backend, the others are just as competent at offense and defence as their counterparts on the other end. Reardon is lining up with Crawford an excellent positional defensive guy to cover for when Reardon is doing Reardon things. Trying to separate our defences is splitting hairs IMO

From my readings on Tarasov I don't think he was one for matchups so Irvin can try, but Tarasov is likely to just roll the lines.

Edit: Tilting the ice? You have one line that can do that IMO I have two. Your top line is stacked to give you an advantage but I have two scoring lines stronger than either of your either "scoring lines" combined with the poor group defending of your forward unit Irvin has to hope your goalie can stop the bleeding

How on earth do you think I only have one line that can tilt the ice offensively? I have three highly dynamic offensive lines that you simply won't be able to counter at the same time. As I said, you're going to have to hope Roy is in top form, even as good as he is. I have three lines that are going to get plenty of chances, and they're going to score some goals. And no, I don't think Esposito and Thompson are going to get it way worse because of the blue line. Is my team as good overall defensively? No. But yours isn't as good overall offensively. And I prefer having my defense on the back end where it is when push comes to shove.
 

ResilientBeast

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How on earth do you think I only have one line that can tilt the ice offensively? I have three highly dynamic offensive lines that you simply won't be able to counter at the same time. As I said, you're going to have to hope Roy is in top form, even as good as he is. I have three lines that are going to get plenty of chances, and they're going to score some goals. And no, I don't think Esposito and Thompson are going to get it way worse because of the blue line. Is my team as good overall defensively? No. But yours isn't as good overall offensively. And I prefer having my defense on the back end where it is when push comes to shove.

You think your second line can "tilt" the ice offensively when compared to my second line? Lalonde is easily the best offensively player on either line by a fair margin. He's the difference maker here he's the top 50 player all time.

Your team has no answer to my top 2 centers. My team has plenty of wingers to throw at Lindsay and Richard (the only players who really scare me offensively in the playoffs on the wing) and then centers to slow down Perrault and McDavid.
 

ResilientBeast

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The biggest difference between our defense is our third pairings. I'd have mine naturally ahead. Patrick is the best D of the bunch. He's hampered by his disinterest in playing every season but he was at his peak as good as Lester.
 

Professor What

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You think your second line can "tilt" the ice offensively when compared to my second line? Lalonde is easily the best offensively player on either line by a fair margin. He's the difference maker here he's the top 50 player all time.

Your team has no answer to my top 2 centers. My team has plenty of wingers to throw at Lindsay and Richard (the only players who really scare me offensively in the playoffs on the wing) and then centers to slow down Perrault and McDavid.

Given the builds of the lines overall, yes I think my second line can tilt the ice. And I don't think you have wingers that can slow down Lindsay and Richard enough to neutralize my top line enough either.

Ugh... I don't know if I can take a week of this...
 

ResilientBeast

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Given the builds of the lines overall, yes I think my second line can tilt the ice. And I don't think you have wingers that can slow down Lindsay and Richard enough to neutralize my top line enough either.

Ugh... I don't know if I can take a week of this...

I didn't say neutralize, I just said throw at to slow down. It's seldom great players get absolutely shut down in the playoffs especially playoff legends like Richard.
 

ResilientBeast

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Lol your second line is "built" to tilt the ice? I feel like you're not familiar with my players with a statement like that

Noble by far the worst offensive player on either unit.

In a split league Noble managed finishes of 3rd, 6th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th in the same situation all three members of my line were facing


Tommy Smith led the NHA in Goals/Points twice and several other leagues with varying levels of offensive competition
Lalonde is well Lalonde, one of the greatest goal scorers to ever live leading multiple different leagues in goals 8 times
MacKay despite my reservations in the HOH thread once he moved to wing managed to routinely be a top scorer in the PCHA
 

ResilientBeast

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Show me where I ever said I did. I've only ever pointed out that my team has three lines that can drive offense. That's not debatable. I've got a 3-2 advantage there.

Ok but if I have pieces to slow your offensive lines down then just saying 3>2 is dishonest. May as well just sum up VsX and move on with that logic.

And that third line can drive offence for both teams alright. I would love to watch McDavid try and outskate Taylor or avoid Walker/Lepine, turning the puck over in the process, and rely on Nash and Bondra to backcheck for him.
 

Professor What

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Ok but if I have pieces to slow your offensive lines down then just saying 3>2 is dishonest. May as well just sum up VsX and move on with that logic.

And that third line can drive offence for both teams alright. I would love to watch McDavid try and outskate Taylor or avoid Walker/Lepine, turning the puck over in the process, and rely on Nash and Bondra to backcheck for him.

How is it dishonest to point out that the team that has more assets to play defensively also has more units to try to counter?! That makes no sense whatsoever.
 

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