ATD 2021 Draft Thread I

[Dreakmur]

If I'm being honest, I feel like a bit of a weak link. Don't get me wrong, this is fun, and it's something I think I want to remain active in in the future, but being a rookie does feel a bit like jumping into the deep end.

Focus on the parts you enjoy and ignore the rest.

My favourite part is the playoff debates, but I know many of my fellow GMs would list that as their least favourite part!

 

[ResilientBeast]

Right now, I feel like I have at least a decent understanding of the players and what's going on, but I feel like the deeper we go, the more I'm going to have to learn about a lot of those players, and that's where I really feel like I'm out of my depth. I'm hoping to absorb a lot in the later rounds.



I don't have much doubt of getting a fair shake because of my dealings with the regular HOH group, since folks around here take their hockey history pretty seriously.

Any suggestions on good ways to break down rosters and matchups?



Thanks for the offer. I've found there's a good bit of that in this group, which I appreciate. Early on, I wanted to make sure I had a group that could physically assert itself to make sure I didn't have a team that could be pushed around easily but still get guys that had some skills. I do feel like I've had success there so far, but I hope I can fill in the holes well.

Your first draft is really drinking from a firehose

 

[BenchBrawl]

Anybody got LL on FB?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Anybody got LL on FB?

Already ahead of you bud.

He's aware as of about 79 seconds ago haha.

 

[BraveCanadian]

If I'm being honest, I feel like a bit of a weak link. Don't get me wrong, this is fun, and it's something I think I want to remain active in in the future, but being a rookie does feel a bit like jumping into the deep end.

It is like jumping into the deep end! Don't sweat it and just enjoy going through it and pick up what you can.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Already ahead of you bud.

He's aware as of about 79 seconds ago haha.

My man

 

[RustyRazor]

Remember, most of us (hopefully) ignore the name of the GM when it’s time to vote.

I was out of line last week when I ranted. I apologize to all past and present participants.

Anyway on hockey... I picked a goalie too early last year trying to avoid being at the end of a run of goalies. This year I hope I don't suffer the opposite fate. Some good names going off the board recently.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I was out of line last week when I ranted. I apologize to all past and present participants.

Anyway on hockey... I picked a goalie too early last year trying to avoid being at the end of a run of goalies. This year I hope I don't suffer the opposite fate. Some good names going off the board recently.

Last year was very different though, because we had 40 teams, which means the worst goalies are really, really bad. With 24 teams, the gap/range isn't as pronounced.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Canadiens1958 used to say that Dionne was a predictable superstar, hence the playoff format is worse for him because the opposition can adapt and "solve" him. He said that in comparison to Lafleur, who was an unpredictable superstar and couldn't be "solved".

How much truth there in that I don't know.

Sturminator said that Dionne was soft and got beaten up in the playoffs

 

[BenchBrawl]

Sturminator said that Dionne was soft and got beaten up in the playoffs

Could both be true lol

 

[Habsfan18]

Last year was very different though, because we had 40 teams, which means the worst goalies are really, really bad. With 24 teams, the gap/range isn't as pronounced.

But it’s all relative to the ATD “league” they’re playing in right?

As others have stated before, xx is still a damn good HOF goaltender, but if he’s recognized as the 20th best in a 24 team league, he’s on the “weaker” side of that year’s ATD goaltending group..and voters may recognize that.

I sit at both ends of that discussion. Early on, I had a hard time viewing xx suddenly as a “weaker” goaltender just because there were fewer teams than the year before, for example. But then I understood what people were saying. It’s all relative, right?

I think each GM has a different view on this.

 

[BenchBrawl]

But it’s all relative to the ATD “league” they’re playing in right?

As others have stated before, xx is still a damn good HOF goaltender, but if he’s recognized as the 20th best in a 24 team league, he’s on the “weaker” side of that year’s ATD goaltending group..and voters may recognize that.

I sit at both ends of that discussion. Early on, I had a hard time viewing xx suddenly as a “weaker” goaltender just because there were fewer teams than the year before, for example. But then I understood what people were saying. It’s all relative, right?

I think each GM has a different view on this.

It's relative to whoever he is facing.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

But it’s all relative to the ATD “league” they’re playing in right?

As others have stated before, xx is still a damn good HOF goaltender, but if he’s recognized as the 20th best in a 24 team league, he’s on the “weaker” side of that year’s ATD goaltending group..and voters may recognize that.

I sit at both ends of that discussion. Early on, I had a hard time viewing xx suddenly as a “weaker” goaltender just because there were fewer teams than the year before, for example. But then I understood what people were saying. It’s all relative, right?

I think each GM has a different view on this.

I still don't view it that way.

IMO, the smaller the draft, the less valuable goaltending is. I've done casual drafts via PM with 3 GMs and we all pick goalies in like the last round. THAT said, I would have considered trying to trade up for Dryden if he kept slipping.

 

[Habsfan18]

It's relative to whoever he is facing.

Well, yes. But I remember being told by multiple people that the overall “goalie tier list” is relative to the amount of teams in that particular year. At least that’s what many were insisting was the general belief.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I still don't view it that way.

IMO, the smaller the draft, the less valuable goaltending is. I've done casual drafts via PM with 3 GMs and we all pick goalies in like the last round. THAT said, I would have considered trying to trade up for Dryden if he kept slipping.

Those drafts were awesome.

Dryden wasn't making past me, and I tried trading up for Sawchuk with tony last night. But once they're gone, the rush is over.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Well, yes. But I remember being told by multiple people that the overall “goalie tier list” is relative to the amount of teams in that particular year. At least that’s what many were insisting was the general belief.

I have no idea what that means.

 

[Habsfan18]

The opinions must be all over the map then, or the general consensus changes each year.

But I remember the general belief was that the 10th best goaltender in a 24-team draft was viewed in a different light than the 10th best goaltender in say a 15 team draft. Or a 40 team draft etc..

 

[BenchBrawl]

The opinions must be all over the map then, or the general consensus changes each year.

But I remember the general belief was that the 10th best goaltender in a 24-team draft was viewed in a different light than the 10th best goaltender in say a 15 team draft. Or a 40 team draft etc..

Well of course, because who he is facing will be different on average. It's not so much that he is "viewed differently", as much as in any given playoff match-up he'll be facing more or less top/bad goalies depending on draft size. It's not about how I view the goalie intrinsically.

That's what I meant when I said goalie is more valuable in a 40 teams draft ; because you will see a bunch of very weak Gs. Not a lot of them in a 15 teams draft.

 

[Habsfan18]

I have no idea what that means.

I’m just going by arguments and discussions that were had in the past. I remember multiple people talking about goaltender’s being viewed relative to the amount of goaltenders in that particular draft. Now maybe that was just strategy, I don’t know.

But don’t make me feel crazy for bringing this up. You guys obviously know what I’m referring to. These discussions are had every year.

 

[Habsfan18]

The 20th best goaltender in a 40 team draft is viewed as the “better” goaltender than the 20th best goaltender in a 22 team draft. Right?

 

[Dreakmur]

I was out of line last week when I ranted. I apologize to all past and present participants.

Don’t even remember what you’re talking about, so couldn’t have been that bad!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Paul Coffey is an average #1 in a 24 team draft. In a 40 team draft he's well above average. It's about how many teams there are and how that relates to the general ranking of a player.

12 (right about where Coffey ranks all time among D) /24 (# of teams) = average
12/40 = good

Goalies are no different. In fact, I'd argue their rankings should be much more rigid given they are the only players on the ice for 60 minutes and essentially on an island. They don't have a partner or linemates.

At least that's how I've always looked at it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I’m just going by arguments and discussions that were had in the past. I remember multiple people talking about goaltender’s being viewed relative to the amount of goaltenders in that particular draft. Now maybe that was just strategy, I don’t know.

But don’t make me feel crazy for bringing this up. You guys obviously know what I’m referring to. These discussions are had every year.

I'm not trying to make you feel crazy, I wasn't sure what you meant. Now I get it, it seems your argument or the argument you heard, was that people viewed the goalie differently intrinsically depending on draft size. My view is that I judge the goalie the same regardless of draft size, but his competition will be different, and I adjust my strategy according to that.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The 20th best goaltender in a 40 team draft is viewed as the “better” goaltender than the 20th best goaltender in a 22 team draft. Right?

I would say so in a vacuum but there are also tiers of goalies with some gaps between them as well so it isn't exact.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I would say so in a vacuum but there are also tiers of goalies with some gaps between them as well so it isn't exact.

Dancing around the tiers is the essence of ATD GMing.