ATD 2019 Lineup Advice Thread

[BenchBrawl]

Question: I have a choice: Put Marcotte or Mosdell on my 1st PK unit? The partner at forward will be Modano, so I already have a center there.Who should I choose?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Question: I have a choice: Put Marcotte or Mosdell on my 1st PK unit? The partner at forward will be Modano, so I already have a center there.Who should I choose?

Put them both on the 1st unit and move Modano to the 2nd unit. I'm not sure Modano is a better PKer than either of those two, and if he is, it's probably not by much. Whereas at ES, Modano is MUCH better. Put him on the 2nd unit and give him a little more ES time.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Put them both on the 1st unit and move Modano to the 2nd unit. I'm not sure Modano is a better PKer than either of those two, and if he is, it's probably not by much. Whereas at ES, Modano is MUCH better. Put him on the 2nd unit and give him a little more ES time.

No.I see your point on a pure PK value standpoint, but the structure of my team is to send Frank Boucher and Mike Modano on both PP and PK units, Boucher on the 1st PP, Modano on the 2nd PP, then Modano on the 1st PK and Boucher on the 2nd PK.If I send Modano on the 2nd unit with Boucher, this significantly limit my post-PK options; basically, Day can only send either my 3rd or 4th line out there while Modano and Boucher rest.

Hence the choice between Marcotte and Mosdell.

There's also some mini-PK chemistry between Modano and Hatcher.

As of now my PK units are:

Modano-Marcotte-Hatcher-Harvey

Boucher-Mosdell-Gerard-Doughty

Which IMO is a very strong PK overall, especially if you consider Jacques Plante is between the pipes.So the only question left was Marcotte vs. Mosdell.

Modano doesn't need more ES icetime, he already plays 13 min ES, and 20 min overall, which is a lot, but playing high TOI was one of his superpowers.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

My top 6 forwards. Spread the skill out:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Helmuts Balderis
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Maurice Richard

Or stack the top line:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Maurice Richard
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Helmuts Balderis

I think I prefer breaking up Richard and Lalonde, as my two best forwards are both finishers (Lalonde does have playmaking skills, but he's still more of a finisher).

 

[BenchBrawl]

My top 6 forwards. Spread the skill out:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Helmuts Balderus
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Maurice Richard

Or stack the top line:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Maurice Richard
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Helmuts Balderus

I think I prefer breaking up Richard and Lalonde, as my two best forwards are both finishers (Lalonde does have playmaking skills, but he's still more of a finisher).

If you split them, then Maurice Richard's line will be the 1st line, but that's semantic I guess.

I prefer splitting.

Typo: It's Balderis, not Balderus.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If you split them, then Maurice Richard's line will be the 1st line, but that's semantic I guess.

It's a shell game for posters who won't like Noble on a first line (I'm trying to equalize things by making Noble the only one in my top 6 to not see special teams time).

I prefer splitting.

Typo: It's Balderis, not Balderus.

Thanks. I've spelled his name wrong before, but I think this is the first time I've made that particular error.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

No.I see your point on a pure PK value standpoint, but the structure of my team is to send Frank Boucher and Mike Modano on both PP and PK units, Boucher on the 1st PP, Modano on the 2nd PP, then Modano on the 1st PK and Boucher on the 2nd PK.If I send Modano on the 2nd unit with Boucher, this significantly limit my post-PK options; basically, Day can only send either my 3rd or 4th line out there while Modano and Boucher rest.

Hence the choice between Marcotte and Mosdell.

There's also some mini-PK chemistry between Modano and Hatcher.

As of now my PK units are:

Modano-Marcotte-Hatcher-Harvey

Boucher-Mosdell-Gerard-Doughty

Which IMO is a very strong PK overall, especially if you consider Jacques Plante is between the pipes.So the only question left was Marcotte vs. Mosdell.

Modano doesn't need more ES icetime, he already plays 13 min ES, and 20 min overall, which is a lot, but playing high TOI was one of his superpowers.

I guess Marcotte over Mosdell. 2 reasons:

1. Marcotte stinks offensively at this level, so might as well get the most of him
2. We have both stats and anecdotes about Marcotte as one of the best PKers of his era. We don't have such stats really for Mosdell's era, just anecdotes (which are very strong, but still given equal anecdotes, might as well go with the stats as well).

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Modano doesn't need more ES icetime, he already plays 13 min ES, and 20 min overall, which is a lot, but playing high TOI was one of his superpowers.

20 mintues seems to be on the high side for Modano. When he was playing he was one of the best players in the league, he's somewhere around an average to slightly below average 2nd liner in this, the minutes here are going to be harder for him. Does Boucher really have to be on the PK? It's not like you need someone to take draws. Can you put Marcotte and Mosdell on the 1st unit and Modano and another forward on the 2nd to reduce Modano's time to 19 minutes?

 

[BenchBrawl]

20 mintues seems to be on the high side for Modano. When he was playing he was one of the best players in the league, he's somewhere around an average to slightly below average 2nd liner in this, the minutes here are going to be harder for him. Does Boucher really have to be on the PK? It's not like you need someone to take draws. Can you put Marcotte and Mosdell on the 1st unit and Modano and another forward on the 2nd to reduce Modano's time to 19 minutes?

Modano played more than 20 minutes in real life in the playoffs; he can easily play 20 minutes here.Just like a player with a great slapshot or a great hitter, the relative capacity to play high TOI is a skill which translates at the ATD level.

Frank Boucher was most likely a great penalty killer, and the man to kill penalties in a championship match (this could be the greatest PK performance of all-time in a game):

After Lester went in as goalie and we won, we got xxxx to goaltend for us. He'd been nicknamed "Red Light" because he played for the Americans and they were losers at that time. I personally never thought he was bad, and as things turned out, he was terrific in that last game. Right off the bat we were behind the eight ball. We got a penalty and I was sent out to try to kill the clock until our man returned. For quite a few seconds we did pretty well and then somebody got the puck to me and I found myself at center ice, skating in on xxxx, a Maroon defenseman. I knew xxxx's weakness - if you pushed the puck through his legs he'd give his attention to it instead of watching you. I tried the trick and, sure enough, he looked down. By the time he looked up I was around him and had picked up the puck, skated in on their goalie, Clint Benedict, and flipped it into the right-hand corner.

Not very long after that we got hit with another penalty and Lester sent me out again. My only concern was to stickhandle the puck as much as possible at center ice; however, I suddenly found myself in a position where my only play was to shoot the puck off the boards and hope to pick up the rebound and keep possession. I miscalculated and shot the puck so far ahead that xxxx, the Maroons defenseman, thought he could intercept it.

The puck was about midway beween xxxx and me, and as I watched him, I realized he was going to try to beat me to it. He came on for quite a run and I could almost hear him thinking, By God, I can't get there quite in time. He seemed to stop in one motion, then change his mind toward it, and by this time I had reached it. I just swooped over to one side and let xxxx go by; I had the whole ice to myself, straight to the goaltender.

I moved directly in on Benedict and landed a goal in almost the exact place as I did earlier. We won the game 2-1 and he Cup.

I appreciate the responses, but I'll stick to my original plan for now.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I guess Marcotte over Mosdell. 2 reasons:

1. Marcotte stinks offensively at this level, so might as well get the most of him
2. We have both stats and anecdotes about Marcotte as one of the best PKers of his era. We don't have such stats really for Mosdell's era, just anecdotes (which are very strong, but still given equal anecdotes, might as well go with the stats as well).

Yeah, I picked Marcotte for physicality and positional flexibility, just i ncase I needed a guy on the RW to check someone a LWer.

Agreed with point 2 too.

 

[BenchBrawl]

It's a shell game for posters who won't like Noble on a first line (I'm trying to equalize things by making Noble the only one in my top 6 to not see special teams time).



Thanks. I've spelled his name wrong before, but I think this is the first time I've made that particular error.

LOL I see your point.Not sure why people would care about Noble on a 1st line but I guess some would.I never understood the problem with balancing the lines.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Modano played more than 20 minutes in real life in the playoffs; he can easily play 20 minutes here.

So is your minutes chart for the playoffs or regular season? I always assume everyone's minutes chart is for the regular season, and then in the playoff the better players' time is increased and lower line players' time decreased.

I'm fine with Modano playing 20 minutes in the playoffs

 

[BenchBrawl]

So is your minutes chart for the playoffs or regular season? I always assume everyone's minutes chart is for the regular season, and then in the playoff the better players' time is increased and lower line players' time decreased.

I'm fine with Modano playing 20 minutes in the playoffs

Playoffs

Mentally distribute the minutes a little more in the RS.

 

[BenchBrawl]

About Frank Boucher on the PK:

So about that quote, just to put it in context.

The series was the 1928 Stanley Cup Finals, New York Rangers vs. Montreal Maroons.It was a best-of-five series.Both teams were tied 2-2, so Game 5 was the championship match.

The New York Rangers won that game 2-1 and won the Stanley Cup.Frank Boucher scored the only two NYR goals short-handed.

Can any PK performance, ever, compete with that?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

About Frank Boucher on the PK:

So about that quote, just to put it in context.

The series was the 1928 Stanley Cup Finals, New York Rangers vs. Montreal Maroons.It was a best-of-five series.Both teams were tied 2-2, so Game 5 was the championship match.

The New York Rangers won that game 2-1 and won the Stanley Cup.Frank Boucher scored the only two NYR goals short-handed.

Can any PK performance, ever, compete with that?

Wow, very impressive

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

My top 6 forwards. Spread the skill out:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Helmuts Balderis
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Maurice Richard

Or stack the top line:

Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde - Maurice Richard
Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Helmuts Balderis

I think I prefer breaking up Richard and Lalonde, as my two best forwards are both finishers (Lalonde does have playmaking skills, but he's still more of a finisher).

I like the "spread" lines. Seems to maximize your players' strengths better

 

[BenchBrawl]

Wow, very impressive

This is why I put him on my PK.Obviously it's just one game, but if Lester Patrick sent Boucher out there short-handed in such a game, it means a lot about what he thought of Boucher's abilities (and he was right).

To check how often Boucher played that role would require a tremendous effort in a bio.Maybe I'll do it but I'm not sure.

Even if he didn't play that role in the RS, this is not unique.Often a coach will send role players PK during the RS to protect their star from injuries or to save their energy, but then when the stakes are high they'll put some star player there.So usage alone cannot determine who is the best PKer.

 

[tinyzombies]

Pavelich-Nicklas Backstrom-Toppazzini for a checking line anyone?

Plan is to have Mario double now at RW and then to go power-vs-power. Backstrom gets PP1 time so he doesn't cry like a Eurobaby. (Sorry morphed into xxx there for a second.)

Toppazzini also plays LW, so I could have this when I double-shift:

Toppazzini-Backstrom-Lemieux and maybe Lemieux takes the draw?

If not, I guess I have to move Backstrom to RW with Foyston and Max Bentley (as a fourth line) and get another checking center (the checking line would be the third line to give me spacing so I could double-shift)?

I could also drop Lindsay in place of Foyston when necessary.

 

[The Macho King]

Any thoughts on my PK?

For forwards I know I'm going to go with Nighbor and Bergeron, and probably Tikannen and Lemieux as the wingers. For D, I was thinking Clapper-Cleghorn, Lutchenko-Konstantinov, but I don't know if Horner would be a better fit in a PK role.

So the units would be -

Nighborn - Tikannen
Cleghorn/Hedman-Clapper (let's face it - Cleghorn is going to be spending some time in the box. Hedman is a good backup I think)

Bergeron - Lemieux (not too sure on this pick - obviously Bure and Grillon are bad choices, Robitaille as well. I haven't read anything about Jackson being used on the PK either?)
Lutchenko-Konstantinov/Horner

Thoughts?

 

[tony d]

My top 6 defensemen:

Clancy-Savard
Tremblay-White
Ragulin-Cook

Are those the right pairings or should I tweak them? Also what type of spare defensemen should I look for?

Also is this the right composition for my PK?

PK 1: Jarvis-Westfall-Savard-White
PK 2: Brindamour-Starshinov-Clancy-Ragulin

Looking forward to all your thoughts here.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Pavelich-Nicklas Backstrom-Toppazzini for a checking line anyone?

Plan is to have Mario double now at RW and then to go power-vs-power. Backstrom gets PP1 time so he doesn't cry like a Eurobaby. (Sorry morphed into xxx there for a second.)

Toppazzini also plays LW, so I could have this when I double-shift:

Toppazzini-Backstrom-Lemieux and maybe Lemieux takes the draw?

If not, I guess I have to move Backstrom to RW with Foyston and Max Bentley (as a fourth line) and get another checking center (the checking line would be the third line to give me spacing so I could double-shift)?

I could also drop Lindsay in place of Foyston when necessary.

I really don't know if I'd want to have a guy as injury-prone as Lemieux regularly double shift. Obviously he's going to see more ice time if the team is trailing, and I might be ok with him double shifting on the PP.

Playing Pavelich and Backstrom on the same line is a little awkward, as Pavelich is basically a defense-only player, I think.

Answer the alternatives would be easier if you posted your full roster.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Any thoughts on my PK?

For forwards I know I'm going to go with Nighbor and Bergeron, and probably Tikannen and Lemieux as the wingers. For D, I was thinking Clapper-Cleghorn, Lutchenko-Konstantinov, but I don't know if Horner would be a better fit in a PK role.

So the units would be -

Nighborn - Tikannen
Cleghorn/Hedman-Clapper (let's face it - Cleghorn is going to be spending some time in the box. Hedman Hedis a good backup I think)

Bergeron - Lemieux (not too sure on this pick - obviously Bure and Grillon are bad choices, Robitaille as well. I haven't read anything about Jackson being used on the PK either?)
Lutchenko-Konstantinov/Horner

Thoughts?

What about Nighbor-Bergeron / Trottier - Tikanen ?

Saving Trottier's ice time for other stuff?

Hedman on a top PK seems kind of ugly, but maybe I'm just not up to date.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

My top 6 defensemen:

Clancy-Savard
Tremblay-White
Ragulin-Cook

Are those the right pairings or should I tweak them? Also what type of spare defensemen should I look for?

Also is this the right composition for my PK?

PK 1: Jarvis-Westfall-Savard-White
PK 2: Brindamour-Starshinov-Clancy-Ragulin

Looking forward to all your thoughts here.

Starshinov looks like he could be a little out of place; other than that, it looks great.

I'm not sure you need to look for anything in particular in a spare Dman - you already have a well-rounded bunch.

 

[The Macho King]

What about Nighbor-Bergeron / Trottier - Tikanen ?

Saving Trottier's ice time for other stuff?

Hedman on a top PK seems kind of ugly, but maybe I'm just not up to date.

Hedman would be a backup option. Probably more on the second PK.

I didn't even think of putting Trottier on there, but that is probably because of my focus on positions (which is less important on the PK generally beyond someone to take a draw). I was thinking in using Trottier in mainly an offensive role that can check if he ends up out there against top lines.

 

[tony d]

So Francis then on my 2nd PK and also bump Jarvis up to my 3rd line and put Starshinov on my 4th line?

Also for my pp dmen, this is the plan now:

PP 1: Clancy-Tremblay
PP 2: Cook-Ragulin