At their Absolute Peak for a Must Win Game, who you Got?

[AB13]

Terrible take.
Bergkamp was a magnificent player, but he rarely took over a team. He was not someone who weighed on every match.
Mind you, Cantona neither, he too has ups and downs. But at his peak he literally took a Leeds team to a title, moved to United and did the same. Cantona's peak is something few players ever reached. He's the definition of insane peak.
As for Vieira, he was also much more important than Bergkamp on that Arsenal team because he was always good.
Bergkamp is one of those players you love to watch on highlights plays because he was so damn elegant techncially. But day in and day out, he was barely a top 3 Arsenal player.

Bergkamp took over a team more than anyone else in PL history besides Henry. A guy to take over a whole team is exactly the type of player Bergkamp was. Bergkamp was the main man ad Arsenal started compete with Fergusons United. He was a coach on the pitch, who would basically run the entire teams attack on his own. Every action, every pass, every off ball run was wonderfully thought out and elevated the teams attacking patterns. 1996-1998 Bergkamp was world class every single game. Even in the games he didn’t score in, he did so much. Vieira is the best midfielder in PL history, but not better than Dennis.

 

[AB13]

That is quite reasonable I would say. Only 4 Arsenal players in the top 15 ever. Should be said right now I can't think of a CD better than Mabbutt either - as it was him I was thinking about.

I do believe Arsenal 2002-2004 are the best team in football history. So yes, that is reasonable. Probably only 2 make the top 15 though, but maybe Vieira does as well.

 

[Evilo]

Bergkamp took over a team more than anyone else in PL history besides Henry. A guy to take over a whole team is exactly the type of player Bergkamp was. Bergkamp was the main man ad Arsenal started compete with Fergusons United. He was a coach on the pitch, who would basically run the entire teams attack on his own. Every action, every pass, every off ball run was wonderfully thought out and elevated the teams attacking patterns. 1996-1998 Bergkamp was world class every single game. Even in the games he didn’t score in, he did so much. Vieira is the best midfielder in PL history, but not better than Dennis.

OK, you didn't watch that Arsenal outside highlights lol.

 

[AB13]

OK, you didn't watch that Arsenal outside highlights lol.

I have watched some games back and I know people (whos football knowledge I trust) that watched them and have taked about that team with me. My first Arsenal memories are from like 03-04 but I was probably too young to properly analyse football then. Doesn’t matter becuase you can watch games back (which I did a bit during covid season).

 

[Evilo]

Well those people are romantisizing Bergkamp.
The same way people are doing with Zidane.

Those two players were insanely talented and could at any time take over a game on one play. But they didn't weigh for 90 minutes like Vieira or Henry for Arsenal. Heck you could say Pires has more impact day in and day out.

 

[AB13]

Well those people are romantisizing Bergkamp.
The same way people are doing with Zidane.

Those two players were insanely talented and could at any time take over a game on one play. But they didn't weigh for 90 minutes like Vieira or Henry for Arsenal. Heck you could say Pires has more impact day in and day out.

I understand that classly technical players easially can be romanticised

 

[The Abusement Park]

Also the fact that Bergkamp never karate kicked a fan in the chest clearly affects his peak.

 

[Havre]

Lmao what?

Obviously a bit tongue in cheek, but Harry Kane has more goals and assists combined than Bergkamp playing less games for a far worse team.

Goals and assists aren't everything of course, but you might add that Kane is one of the best at clearing set pieces defensively and a hard worker.

So lmao is just complete ignorance and as Evilo is pointing out people romanticising the past.

Loved Bergkamp. Brilliant player, but not as good as Cantona - or Kane.

 

[AB13]

Kane isn’t in the same universe as Bergkamp. Neither Bergkamp or Cantona were out and out strikers, so comparing their goals and assists to Kane is absolutely meaningless. Same goes for other false nines/second strikers like Totti, Baggio and an older Rooney.

 

[Evilo]

Kane isn’t in the same universe as Bergkamp. Neutrer Bergkamp or Cantona were out and out strikers, so comparing goals and assists is absolutely meaningless. Same goes for other false nines/second strikers like Totti, Baggio and an older Rooney.

Cantona scored/assisted a goal a game in his peak Leeds/United years (11 in 13, 20 in 21, 30 in 34).
Bergkamp approached it once in 98 (27 in 28).

 

[AB13]

Cantona scored/assisted a goal a game in his peak Leeds/United years (11 in 13, 20 in 21, 30 in 34).
Bergkamp approached it once in 98 (27 in 28).

And as I said, Bergkamp controlled the whole attack in a unique way. His game was not about just goals and assists. Two of the Cantona seasons you mentioned are also small sample sizes.

 

[Evilo]

Come on. Bergkamp played in the last 25 meters and nowhere else. He also played on teams that scored a bunch of goals. He didn't help anywhere else on the pitch (nor did Cantona).
Those guys played really high on the pitch (Zidane played lower).

 

[Evilo]

FYI, Bergkamp was ONCE named to the bext XI of the EPL.
Cantona was best player all time of the EPL.
He was the first named admitted to EPL HOF. It took Bergkamp 9 years.
Only player in EPL history to make two doubles while scoring in each Cup final.

 

[AB13]

FYI, Bergkamp was ONCE named to the bext XI of the EPL.
Cantona was best player all time of the EPL.
He was the first named admitted to EPL HOF. It took Bergkamp 9 years.
Only player in EPL history to make two doubles while scoring in each Cup final.

Want to base it on individual award voting? That’s a bad way to judge, but Bergkamp has finished both second and third in the ballon d’or. Cantona only has one third place finish.

 

[Evilo]

EPL team of the year is an individual award?
Tell me, if Bergkamp was that dominant, you think he would have made the EPL XI just once?

As for Ballon d'Or, it has a well known anti french bias due to the fact it's a french award. Henry never won it, Zidane won it once, Cantona never won it, even when Ribery won everything, he didn't win it. It's well known.

 

[AB13]

EPL team of the year is an individual award?
Tell me, if Bergkamp was that dominant, you think he would have made the EPL XI just once?

As for Ballon d'Or, it has a well known anti french bias due to the fact it's a french award. Henry never won it, Zidane won it once, Cantona never won it, even when Ribery won everything, he didn't win it. It's well known.

Aguero didn’t ever make the XI and he’s top 5 in PL history as well. PL team of the years are voted by player associations with inherent biases so it is hardly representative of how good a player is. Ballon d’or voting is not less or more relevant (in fact I think neither things are relevant).

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Kane isn’t in the same universe as Bergkamp. Neither Bergkamp or Cantona were out and out strikers, so comparing their goals and assists to Kane is absolutely meaningless. Same goes for other false nines/second strikers like Totti, Baggio and an older Rooney.

Bergkamp was a joy to watch and I'm not going to go into who is/was better but you're underrating Harry Kane

 

[Havre]

AB13 makes Bergkamp sound like Modric. 3rd last on all these goals.

Say what you want. Kane scores the most goals and has the most assists in the league and somehow Bergkamp is just so much better than him he isn't even in the same conversation. Imagine if Bergkamp played now. He would be some sort of Messi, Andy Carroll, van Dijk, Xavi-hybrid.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Also the fact that Bergkamp never karate kicked a fan in the chest clearly affects his peak.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is an asset for Cantona, not a setback.

 

[AB13]

AB13 makes Bergkamp sound like Modric. 3rd last on all these goals.

Say what you want. Kane scores the most goals and has the most assists in the league and somehow Bergkamp is just so much better than him he isn't even in the same conversation. Imagine if Bergkamp played now. He would be some sort of Messi, Andy Carroll, van Dijk, Xavi-hybrid.

Bergkamp is so much better than Kane that it isn’t a debate, yes. Don’t know what you mean by the Modric thing? The fact I think he’s overrated?

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

One day it's gonna strike people just how underrated Harry Kane has been for the past five years

 

[Havre]

Bergkamp is so much better than Kane that it isn’t a debate, yes. Don’t know what you mean by the Modric thing? The fact I think he’s overrated?

Based on you watching him on tape during Covid and from stories people you trust. Well well.

 

[Havre]

One day it's gonna strike people just how underrated Harry Kane has been for the past five years

Only player I can think of who can score the most goals and assist the most goals for a fairly average team and still be just a very good striker.

Not saying most are not rating him higher than AB of course, but I still find it fascinating how underrated he is.

 

[AB13]

Only player I can think of who can score the most goals and assist the most goals for a fairly average team and still be just a very good striker.

Not saying most are not rating him higher than AB of course, but I still find it fascinating how underrated he is.

I rate Kane higher than most on here. Fully sure of that. I think he’s just as good as Lewandowski. Also rate Bergkamp higher than most.