Player Discussion At 47 the Senators Select Alex Formenton

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Sensinitis

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How would you compare Alex Formenton to Alex Tuch? Could Formenton be similar to what Tuch was this year for Vegas? How would you compare their offensive upsides?

They seem like very different players stylistically.

And @JungleBeat idk what to tell you other than I disagree. He played WJC already and was PPG in the OHL and by all accounts dominated in his particular context (not the best London team, to put it nicely).

He’s gonna surprise people.
 

Icelevel

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How would you compare Alex Formenton to Alex Tuch? Could Formenton be similar to what Tuch was this year for Vegas? How would you compare their offensive upsides?
They have the same first name. Comparison over.

Ok for fun very loose Senator player comparisons. More style than production and really not that accurate likely , but fun...

Batherson-Ryan replacement
Formenton-Hoffman replacement
Brown-Spezza replacement (finally)
White-Fisher replacement
Tkachuk-Empty hole replacement
Chlapik-Havlat replacement

Where is alfie?? (Keep stone. He is our Alfredsson)
 
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toxic poster

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They have the same first name. Comparison over.

Ok for fun very loose Senator player comparisons. More style than production and really not that accurate likely , but fun...

Batherson-Ryan replacement
Formenton-Hoffman replacement
Brown-Spezza replacement (finally)
White-Fisher replacement
Tkachuk-Empty hole replacement
Chlapik-Havlat replacement

Where is alfie?? (Keep stone. He is our Alfredsson)
formenton is no where near hoffman stylistically what lmao

hoffman is one of the most versatile players with the puck on his stick in the league while formenton is a very straight line, north south player still. not a dynamic offensive threat yet by any means. hoffman is a top line winger - formenton is a complimentary piece to a middle 6 with his speed.
 

Icelevel

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formenton is no where near hoffman stylistically what lmao

hoffman is one of the most versatile players with the puck on his stick in the league while formenton is a very straight line, north south player still. not a dynamic offensive threat yet by any means. hoffman is a top line winger - formenton is a complimentary piece to a middle 6 with his speed.
Who do we have that is closer to Hoffman? (And don’t say Perron) Just having fun man. He’s a speedy winger with some offensive potential
 

Tuna99

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formenton is no where near hoffman stylistically what lmao

hoffman is one of the most versatile players with the puck on his stick in the league while formenton is a very straight line, north south player still. not a dynamic offensive threat yet by any means. hoffman is a top line winger - formenton is a complimentary piece to a middle 6 with his speed.

What? Hoffman was a puck hog who had no chemistry with anyone - he was the opposite of versatile, the only thing he did consistently well was give the puck away in his own zone with turnover passes that can only be described by seeing the payments the MOb was making to him to throw games.

and Hoffman spent most time on the 3rd line because they were trying to hide his complete lack of interest in backchecking and his extremely low hockey sense. Kid can shoot the puck and finish, but he's not someone I would ever describe as versatile , he;s the opposite, a defensive nightmare with very little lack in ice-hockey unless he is puck hogging the rush
 

JungleBeat

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Who do we have that is closer to Hoffman? (And don’t say Perron) Just having fun man. He’s a speedy winger with some offensive potential
Don’t have any scorers in the system. We’re filled with two - way guys and playmakers.
 

Boud

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Don’t have any scorers in the system. We’re filled with two - way guys and playmakers.

Not that I'm very optimistic about him becoming an impact player but Gagné is a scorer.
 
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Agent Zub

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What? Hoffman was a puck hog who had no chemistry with anyone - he was the opposite of versatile, the only thing he did consistently well was give the puck away in his own zone with turnover passes that can only be described by seeing the payments the MOb was making to him to throw games.

and Hoffman spent most time on the 3rd line because they were trying to hide his complete lack of interest in backchecking and his extremely low hockey sense. Kid can shoot the puck and finish, but he's not someone I would ever describe as versatile , he;s the opposite, a defensive nightmare with very little lack in ice-hockey unless he is puck hogging the rush


This is revisionist thinking.

Hoffman played on the third line the same reason stone would play on the third.

They were the only two forwards we had who can produce offence with anyone.

Hoffmans speed made him a good backhecker and was one of our few players who could consistently gain the offensive zone.

Hoffamn could one time, wrist, slap, skate the puck, pass, dangle, backcheck. How is this not a versatile and dymanic player?

You put him anywhere in the lineup and he is dangerous.
 
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Tuna99

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This is revisionist thinking.

Hoffman played on the third line the same reason stone would play on the third.

They were the only two forwards we had who can produce offence with anyone.

Hoffmans speed made him a good backhecker and was one of our few players who could consistently gain the offensive zone.

Hoffamn could one time, wrist, slap, skate the puck, pass, dangle, backcheck. How is this not a versatile and dymanic player?

You put him anywhere in the lineup and he is dangerous.

Hey we all watch the same game and see different things. I wasn't a Hoffman fan, he could finish, I din't like his 5 on 5 game, I didn't like his D zone presence, I didn't like ho he'd skate all 3 zones with the puck and then give it away weakly in the O-z0ne and not back check - he didn't use his teamates well and his zone entrie 99% of the time led to nothing.

Alfie/Spezza woulf take the zone and build plays and get their teammates involved - Hoffman plays hockey like he's in a beer league All Star game
 

Agent Zub

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Hey we all watch the same game and see different things. I wasn't a Hoffman fan, he could finish, I din't like his 5 on 5 game, I didn't like his D zone presence, I didn't like ho he'd skate all 3 zones with the puck and then give it away weakly in the O-z0ne and not back check - he didn't use his teamates well and his zone entrie 99% of the time led to nothing.

Alfie/Spezza woulf take the zone and build plays and get their teammates involved - Hoffman plays hockey like he's in a beer league All Star game

Sure he wasn't spezza or alfredsson. but those guys are 1k point scorers. Hoffman was a valuable player and a net positive despite not being alfredsson.

also his zone entries 99% of the time led to nothing? you're extremely biased and its clouding your view on of our best players for the last 3/4 years.
 
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Tuna99

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Sure he wasn't spezza or alfredsson. but those guys are 1k point scorers. Hoffman was a valuable player and a net positive despite not being alfredsson.

also his zone entries 99% of the time led to nothing? you're extremely biased and its clouding your view on of our best players for the last 3/4 years.

Winning to me is about making your teammates better, Hoffman didn’t do that ever

I don’t like Bobby Ryans effort or game either for a ‘top player’ and I don’t consider him or Hoffman even in the top 6 of our best forwards the last 2 years. I like Stone but I’m not fooled by stats, I like hockey players that play hockey and aren’t just there to score or finish or make pretty plays.

I’d much rather watch Stone forecheck in the neutral then watch Hoffman skate 3 zones into a 4 man gang tackle. But that’s just me, my favourite part of Alfies game was his forecheck, I think Chris Neil should of been on the team last year, I’d much rather watch Neil lay a hit then watch Ryan lose a his 49 stick battle of the game and sulk while he has to backcheck
 

BigRig4

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Winning to me is about making your teammates better, Hoffman didn’t do that ever

I don’t like Bobby Ryans effort or game either for a ‘top player’ and I don’t consider him or Hoffman even in the top 6 of our best forwards the last 2 years. I like Stone but I’m not fooled by stats, I like hockey players that play hockey and aren’t just there to score or finish or make pretty plays.

I’d much rather watch Stone forecheck in the neutral then watch Hoffman skate 3 zones into a 4 man gang tackle. But that’s just me, my favourite part of Alfies game was his forecheck, I think Chris Neil should of been on the team last year, I’d much rather watch Neil lay a hit then watch Ryan lose a his 49 stick battle of the game and sulk while he has to backcheck

I wanna preface this by saying I don't mean to sound sassy despite how this might come off, but winning is objectively about outscoring the other team. Which Hoffman did by leading our team in goals the past 4 years, and having incredible goal and shot impacts.
 

Peptic Balcers

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Winning to me is about making your teammates better, Hoffman didn’t do that ever

I don’t like Bobby Ryans effort or game either for a ‘top player’ and I don’t consider him or Hoffman even in the top 6 of our best forwards the last 2 years. I like Stone but I’m not fooled by stats, I like hockey players that play hockey and aren’t just there to score or finish or make pretty plays.

I’d much rather watch Stone forecheck in the neutral then watch Hoffman skate 3 zones into a 4 man gang tackle. But that’s just me, my favourite part of Alfies game was his forecheck, I think Chris Neil should of been on the team last year, I’d much rather watch Neil lay a hit then watch Ryan lose a his 49 stick battle of the game and sulk while he has to backcheck

I'm sorry but I'm looking for a clarification here. Are you suggesting that Stone doesn't play hockey and is only there to score or finish or make pretty plays?
 

Boud

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I wanna preface this by saying I don't mean to sound sassy despite how this might come off, but winning is objectively about outscoring the other team. Which Hoffman did by leading our team in goals the past 4 years, and having incredible goal and shot impacts.

Also if making other players better is your standard for good players, then you have a problem here because only a fraction of NHL players make their teammates noticeably better.

Guys like Stone, Alfredsson, Karlsson. Most NHLers do not make their teammates much better if at all since they play with guys that are on their level. Only elite players make their teammates better because they are noticeably better than everyone else. Teams that have very good depth will also have players make their linemates better (Ex: Marner on the 3rd line in Toronto) but other than that it's just completely normal that Hoffman wasn't making players noticeably better. Actually I'd argue that Duchene played extremely well after he was paired with Hoffman.

This is a situation where people have a hard time accepting players for what they are and instead make unreasonnable comparisons to other players. It's like Hoffman is supposed to be as good as Stone or something when in reality 1% of NHL players are better than him. It's completely normal that he has flaws and that's why he's getting paid 5M and not 10M. The guy is not Patrick Kane, he's still a damn good hockey player when you stop looking at what he cannot do and just appreciate what he can do. Shades of Leafs fans hate towards Phil Kessel. No Kessel won't be the best player on the ice every night, but he's a damn good player. Hoffman is not as good as Kessel quite clearly, but the point is that he is a very valuable player when you look at him resonably and start looking at what he can do. Very few players can score goals like he can, that's very valuable in a game that's dictated by goals scored. The problem is not Hoffman, some fans just have unrealistic expectations of what he is and what he isn't.
 
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Agent Zub

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Also if making other players better is your standard for good players, then you have a problem here because only a fraction of NHL players make their teammates noticeably better.

Guys like Stone, Alfredsson, Karlsson. Most NHLers do not make their teammates much better if at all since they play with guys that are on their level. Only elite players make their teammates better because they are noticeably better than everyone else. Teams that have very good depth will also have players make their linemates better (Ex: Marner on the 3rd line in Toronto) but other than that it's just completely normal that Hoffman wasn't making players noticeably better. Actually I'd argue that Duchene played extremely well after he was paired with Hoffman.

This is a situation where people have a hard time accepting players for what they are and instead make unreasonnable comparisons to other players. It's like Hoffman is supposed to be as good as Stone or something when in reality 1% of NHL players are better than him. It's completely normal that he has flaws and that's why he's getting paid 5M and not 10M. The guy is not Patrick Kane, he's still a damn good hockey player when you stop looking at what he cannot do and just appreciate what he can do. Shades of Leafs fans hate towards Phil Kessel. No Kessel won't be the best player on the ice every night, but he's a damn good player. Hoffman is not as good as Kessel quite clearly, but the point is that he is a very valuable player when you look at him resonably and start looking at what he can do. Very few players can score goals like he can, that's very valuable in a game that's dictated by goals scored. The problem is not Hoffman, some fans just have unrealistic expectations of what he is and what he isn't.


I feel like Alfredsson spoiled all of us.

We might never see another Senator who combines everything like Alfredsson, there's a handful in league history who combined everything like Alfie. but Sens fan seem to hold all our skilled forwards to that standard when it's just not realistic. I mean, they ran Spezza out of town for it.
 

toxic poster

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What? Hoffman was a puck hog who had no chemistry with anyone - he was the opposite of versatile, the only thing he did consistently well was give the puck away in his own zone with turnover passes that can only be described by seeing the payments the MOb was making to him to throw games.

and Hoffman spent most time on the 3rd line because they were trying to hide his complete lack of interest in backchecking and his extremely low hockey sense. Kid can shoot the puck and finish, but he's not someone I would ever describe as versatile , he;s the opposite, a defensive nightmare with very little lack in ice-hockey unless he is puck hogging the rush
I get we don't like Mike Hoffman the person but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgement in evaluating him as a hockey player. He had one if the best releases in the league and was one of the few guys on our roster who could cleanly enter the offensive zone carrying the puck through the NZ.

Tell me this- if you were a scoring threat would you pass to Tom Pyatt and Zack Smith? You have to set those guys up if you want them to be 3ffective at all, you can't expect them to create their own offense. Look at when he played with a legitimate scoring centre in Duchene. He was incredible. He passed the puck, forechecked hard and was responsible in the neutral zone.
 

toxic poster

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Who do we have that is closer to Hoffman? (And don’t say Perron) Just having fun man. He’s a speedy winger with some offensive potential
Gagne is the closest but he's more of a complimentary piece. Formenton has no where near the offensive potential and he doesn't play a similar style at all. That's all I was pointing out. There's a lot more character and defensive responsibility in AF's game. Hoffman was an offensive speciliast with one of the best releases in hockey, Formenton will never be that.
 

Icelevel

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Gagne is the closest but he's more of a complimentary piece. Formenton has no where near the offensive potential and he doesn't play a similar style at all. That's all I was pointing out. There's a lot more character and defensive responsibility in AF's game. Hoffman was an offensive speciliast with one of the best releases in hockey, Formenton will never be that.
Nope you’re wrong. Formenton will be exactly like Hoffman ;)
(I didn’t include Gagne because he’s less of a lock to make it imo.)
I was focusing on the speed aspect mostly
 

Boud

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Gagne is the closest but he's more of a complimentary piece. Formenton has no where near the offensive potential and he doesn't play a similar style at all. That's all I was pointing out. There's a lot more character and defensive responsibility in AF's game. Hoffman was an offensive speciliast with one of the best releases in hockey, Formenton will never be that.

As of now Formenton is a lot more comparable to Dzingel than he is to Hoffman. Although I think Formenton is better around the net and has a stronger presence on the ice.
 
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BondraTime

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Formenton is a 30-40 point energy guy, he's not going to be an offensive guy at all.

Great, great player to have, but not an offensive guy.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Formenton will very likely shine at training camp and even in a 9 game stint... I guess if he's ready , he's ready ...but I would prefer if they sent him back and overcooked him... He can still benefit imo.
 

StutzleTheGoat

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Gagne is the closest but he's more of a complimentary piece. Formenton has no where near the offensive potential and he doesn't play a similar style at all. That's all I was pointing out. There's a lot more character and defensive responsibility in AF's game. Hoffman was an offensive speciliast with one of the best releases in hockey, Formenton will never be that.

What??? Have you watched Formenton play in the last couple months? More specifically since the OHL trade deadline? This guy is taking off and progressing at an insane rate. He was a machine in the playoffs scoring 5G, 2A, 7P in 4 games. He scored those 5 goals in dynamic-offensive fashion as well. He's also got a an absolute rocket of a snap shot and is scoring more and more goals at the top of the circles.

I am assuming you didn't watch any of the WJC Summer Showcase either? He was outstanding and a threat offensively whenever he was on the ice. Not to mention he was used as the trigger man on the power play. With his speed and skill he showed flashes of dominance. Once he gets even stronger and begins to fill out that 6'2 frame, I couldn't even imagine how fast he will be and how much more effective his shot will get.

A top end penalty killer as well. Someone who is reliable in any situation. Hes developed a bit of an edge to his game, he can be a pest. I think he's going to be a coaches dream, top 9 guy that can play any role.

Keep in mind he is still only 18 years old for another month and a half...

1,000,000 x more versatile than Hoffman. The name Hoffman and versatility shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.
 
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