Player Discussion At 47 the Senators Select Alex Formenton

[JD1]

Ok. I can see preferring a 40 to 60 pts Formenton over Hoffman. I do think it's unreasonable to suggest, as you did, that he's a sure thing to reach that benchmark, or even the he most likely will.

Personally I think Formenton will be similar to Grabner, or a pesky Vermette but I don't see it as a sure thing.

My tongue in cheek comment was just that, not looking to argue, I just think your pointing out their respective place on the development curve at the same age was equally irrelevant.

the reason I pointed out his place on the device curve was in response to some feeling he won't become as good as Hoffman. he's been better, significantly better to this point. And it seems like Formenton's progress is accelerating.

the flip side in comparing him to Hoffman in particular is that I have no use for Hoffman. he is not the type of player you win with. He is a skill guy that won't go to the dirty areas and can't play on the boards. it isn't much to live up to.

I'd take peek Vermette over Hoffman if trying to build a team.

 

[Rand0m]

Seriously, if he can be similar Vermette then he's worth more IMO than Hoffman.

I do wonder what Hoffman would/could be if only half of the shots he dings off the posts went in, he'd be fighting for the Rocket every year.

 

[God Says No]

the reason I pointed out his place on the device curve was in response to some feeling he won't become as good as Hoffman. he's been better, significantly better to this point. And it seems like Formenton's progress is accelerating.

the flip side in comparing him to Hoffman in particular is that I have no use for Hoffman. he is not the type of player you win with. He is a skill guy that won't go to the dirty areas and can't play on the boards. it isn't much to live up to.

I'd take peek Vermette over Hoffman if trying to build a team.

Their respective curve doesn't matter. The development level at their respective points don't matter. Development is not linear. I HIGHLY doubt Formenton becomes a consistent 40-60 (especially 60 points is laughable) player. He just doesn't have the skill, except for his speed. No hands, no shot, no dangles.

Grabner and Dzingel are great comparisons. They are both 30-40 players which have very similar skill set to Formenton. I still think a 50-60 Hoffman (with all his warts) is better than a 30-40 Formenton. You can get third liners that are defensively sound much easier than first line snipers.

I think you are setting yourself for disappointment if you think Formenton will become a consistent 50-60 player.

 

[JD1]

Their respective curve doesn't matter. The development level at their respective points don't matter. Development is not linear. I HIGHLY doubt Formenton becomes a consistent 40-60 (especially 60 points is laughable) player. He just doesn't have the skill, except for his speed. No hands, no shot, no dangles.

Grabner and Dzingel are great comparisons. They are both 30-40 players which have very similar skill set to Formenton. I still think a 50-60 Hoffman (with all his warts) is better than a 30-40 Formenton. You can get third liners that are defensively sound much easier than first line snipers.

I think you are setting yourself for disappointment if you think Formenton will become a consistent 50-60 player.

look if you want to debate something at least quote me properly.

I said 40 to 60 with 60 as a career year

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Formenton has great vision, and can spot any opportunity to get the puck and scoot down the ice for a scoring chance. But....from the highlights and games I've seen (admittedly, not that many) that seems to be almost all he does. Kid has amazing speed, and it's definitely tempting for him to want to use it all the time, but he definitely needs to work on other parts of his game. More time in the OHL, and then a year (or more) of AHL seasoning to work on the rest of his game is definitely needed.

 

[God Says No]

look if you want to debate something at least quote me properly.

I said 40 to 60 with 60 as a career year

what the?

. I HIGHLY doubt Formenton becomes a consistent 40-60 (especially 60 points is laughable) player.

 

[OD99]

Formenton is a 30-40 point energy guy, he's not going to be an offensive guy at all.

Great, great player to have, but not an offensive guy.

I respect your opinion but he is my dark horse to keep progressing and become an offensive threat. Seems to me that his ability to control the puck at speed has really improved and so has his shot.

My impression is he will get to 50+ points and really surprise. His age, frame and recent progression are shaping my opinion - I really haven't seen much of him other than highlights and his TC/Senators games.

 

[JD1]

what the?

my original post with numbers said 40 to 60 with 60 as a career year

a few posts later you said I am setting myself up for disappointment if I am expecting a consistent 50 - 60 points.

now you've quoted what you posted and changed the quote to be 40 - 60 but not the original post.

you see the difference in the two expectations? man.....it's at times frustrating on this board when other people put words in your mouth and then tell you your words are something they disagree with / are wrong.

and some of these debates go on for pages and people don't read all the history, they pick the discussion up in the middle or at the end and read things that aren't correct.

 

[Micklebot]

my original post with numbers said 40 to 60 with 60 as a career year

a few posts later you said I am setting myself up for disappointment if I am expecting a consistent 50 - 60 points.

now you've quoted what you posted and changed the quote to be 40 - 60 but not the original post.

you see the difference in the two expectations? man.....it's at times frustrating on this board when other people put words in your mouth and then tell you your words are something they disagree with / are wrong.

and some of these debates go on for pages and people don't read all the history, they pick the discussion up in the middle or at the end and read things that aren't correct.

Looks like it may have been a typo or some sort of misunderstanding in the OP, because he said 40-60 in the first paragraph, and then 50-60 in the last paragraph of the same post. He had been using 50-60 when describing Hoffman in the same post. There were no edits in the original post, but he only quoted the top half of it when questioning your response.

I think a 40 pts player with a couple peak years approching 60 is potentially possible for Formenton, but I think that's somewhat ideal development for him (obviously, he could turn into anything, I just mean in the real of realistic projections). There have been a lot of more highly skilled prospects that failed to produce at the next level, so anytime you project a player to put up top 6 numbers as the likely outcome, you'll get some kickback.

I hope you're right about Formenton, he's a guy that, as they say, plays the game right, and will contribute more than just on the scoresheet.

 

[JD1]

Looks like it may have been a typo or some sort of misunderstanding in the OP, because he said 40-60 in the first paragraph, and then 50-60 in the last paragraph of the same post. He had been using 50-60 when describing Hoffman in the same post. There were no edits in the original post, but he only quoted the top half of it when questioning your response.

I think a 40 pts player with a couple peak years approching 60 is potentially possible for Formenton, but I think that's somewhat ideal development for him (obviously, he could turn into anything, I just mean in the real of realistic projections). There have been a lot of more highly skilled prospects that failed to produce at the next level, so anytime you project a player to put up top 6 numbers as the likely outcome, you'll get some kickback.

I hope you're right about Formenton, he's a guy that, as they say, plays the game right, and will contribute more than just on the scoresheet.

that posted was corrected in the quote. if you realized you've typo'd something and it makes something objectively different then the logical thing to do would be to acknowledge your typo no?

lots of prospects fail to pan out. lots of Cdn kids play WJC and don't pan out.

How many Cdn kids play WJC at 18 and don't go on to prosperous NHL careers?

I think Batherson is a more likely candidate to not pan out

 

[Ray Kinsella]

I get we don't like Mike Hoffman the person but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgement in evaluating him as a hockey player. He had one if the best releases in the league and was one of the few guys on our roster who could cleanly enter the offensive zone carrying the puck through the NZ.

Tell me this- if you were a scoring threat would you pass to Tom Pyatt and Zack Smith? You have to set those guys up if you want them to be 3ffective at all, you can't expect them to create their own offense. Look at when he played with a legitimate scoring centre in Duchene. He was incredible. He passed the puck, forechecked hard and was responsible in the neutral zone.

To be fair, I did find him inconsistent in his play. I also always wondered what so often took him so long to get off the ice.

 

[Brannstorm]

Formenton did put up some nice playoffs numbers (5 goals, 2 assist, 4 games) in the OHL albeit a short sample size.

He is only 18, drafted a year ago and continues to progress with respect to putting up points.

We talk about all different levels of growing and learning for young players sometimes into their mid 20s.

So from that perspective I can only see room for optimism. I wouldn't peg him quite yet as unable to succeed to 60 points in the future. But maybe every0ne does kind of level out at, 17 or 18

 

[God Says No]

that posted was corrected in the quote. if you realized you've typo'd something and it makes something objectively different then the logical thing to do would be to acknowledge your typo no?

lots of prospects fail to pan out. lots of Cdn kids play WJC and don't pan out.

How many Cdn kids play WJC at 18 and don't go on to prosperous NHL careers?

I think Batherson is a more likely candidate to not pan out

Yeah, the second was a typo, my bad. My point still stands. I just don't see Formenton being in the 40-60 range for his career. He might break 40 once or twice, but very unlikely.

 

[Icelevel]

Yeah, the second was a typo, my bad. My point still stands. I just don't see Formenton being in the 40-60 range for his career. He might break 40 once or twice, but very unlikely.

I think we have to wait and see on Formenton. He could be a third line 20-30 pt guy. He could be a second line 40-60 pt guy.

 

[Hale The Villain]

30-40P is what I'm expecting out of Formenton, but 40-50P seasons aren't out of reach at all.

Grabner and Wood are good comparables IMO.

 

[Micklebot]

30-40P is what I'm expecting out of Formenton, but 40-50P seasons aren't out of reach at all.

Grabner and Wood are good comparables IMO.

Yeah, those two came to mind for me as well. Maybe Mason Raymond before breaking his back?

I've seen people suggest Formenton has good size, but he looks rail thin to me. I have doubts he'll fill out to some peoples expectations. I'm thinking Kyle Turris as a comparable in terms of frame and body type (not style or skill)

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, those two came to mind for me as well. Maybe Mason Raymond before breaking his back?

I've seen people suggest Formenton has good size, but he looks rail thin to me. I have doubts he'll fill out to some peoples expectations. I'm thinking Kyle Turris as a comparable in terms of frame and body type (not style or skill)

I'd think 180-190 is probably his NHL playing weight, so definitely not a bruiser.

He will have great size for his game, he's not going to be running guys through the boards, he's going to be constantly hounding them from all ends of the ice.

I'd wager quite a bit he will draw the most penalties for the Sens over the course of many seasons, similar to all the hooking and holding and retaliation calls Vermette used to draw

 

[Micklebot]

I'd think 180-190 is probably his NHL playing weight, so definitely not a bruiser.

He will have great size for his game, he's not going to be running guys through the boards, he's going to be constantly hounding them from all ends of the ice.

I'd wager quite a bit he will draw the most penalties for the Sens over the course of many seasons, similar to all the hooking and holding and retaliation calls Vermette used to draw

Yeah, that all sounds reasonable. I'm not sure he has the skill that Vermette did, but he's probably the most similar prospect we've had to Vermette. I really like Formenton, hope he pans out.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, that all sounds reasonable. I'm not sure he has the skill that Vermette did, but he's probably the most similar prospect we've had to Vermette. I really like Formenton, hope he pans out.

Definitely doesn't have the skill, which isn't to say that he isn't skilled; Vermette was a 57 goal, 120 point guy in the Q as an 18 year old (Scoring was very high, he was only 7th in the league in scoring just behind Vrbata and a few ahead of Pominville).

 

[Agent Zub]

Expect a Grabner or Hagelin as the best case. Most likely he is going to be worse but a good bet to be at least a third liner.


With his speed size and tenacity he should be destroying the OHL, the fact he doesn't is because he doesn't have the brains to be a scoring player.

 

[Panic at the Back]

How's Formie looking? Sounded like he had some chemistry with Boedker.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

How's Formie looking? Sounded like he had some chemistry with Boedker.

Personally I think he was under utilized vs the hawks .. only got 10 minutes .. had a couple grade A chances from Boedker. He should be getting his regular shift and PK time imo. The guy is a threat on the PK and he defends really well. I think he has been excellent so far. Not sure if they will send him back or not.

 

[coladin]

First time I saw him in person and he could be the fastest Senator in history

 

[Sensinitis]

Expect a Grabner or Hagelin as the best case. Most likely he is going to be worse but a good bet to be at least a third liner.


With his speed size and tenacity he should be destroying the OHL, the fact he doesn't is because he doesn't have the brains to be a scoring player.

Lol hot take.

Do you still believe this?

 

[Agent Zub]

Lol hot take.

Do you still believe this?

uhhh if Formenton becomes a player like Hagelin we should be pleased.

And do you know how many breakways Grabner gets in a game? If Formenton had top 6 offensive instincts he'd be a star. He hasn't proven jack shit yet.

If formenton finds his scoring touch we might get a Kreider, but a little early to be saying i told you so's lol.

Also i love watching Formenton and i love his speed. Just because you're realistic about a player doesn't mean you don't like them. The NHL is the best league in the world. There's no shame in being a Grabner, Hagelin, or Kreider.