At 26th the Sens Take Jacob Bernard Docker

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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I don't get the "trust our scouts" mantra. What about the other team's scouts who didn't pick our player? Should I trust them too?
its not like all our picks were the last picks in the draft.. you dont know maybe the 10 teams after us are pissed they didnt get JBD.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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JBD was ranked 25th by ISS (which is my favorite scouting service) so it's not like it was a stretch to get him where we did.

But the idea of waiting 2-3 years for him to become full time shows how limited our prospect pool is. We have some decent players coming, but not having anyone besides Dzingel make an impact in the last 2 years really hurt our standing and killed the depth of this team - you wonder if with this wave of Formenton, Brown, Batherson, Tchabuk, White IF there will be a 2nd wave to compliment them - no 1st round pick next year, no money to keep anyone, the road to redemption is extremely steep for this team.

but 1 good draft like Tampa had with Kucherov in the 2nd round, Palat in the in the 7th, and your 1st in Namestickov - you realize 1 good day for the franchise and you set yourself up for 10 solid years, MAYBE that's what happened on our draft day, or maybe it happens when EK gets traded.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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JBD was ranked 25th by ISS (which is my favorite scouting service) so it's not like it was a stretch to get him where we did.

But the idea of waiting 2-3 years for him to become full time shows how limited our prospect pool is. We have some decent players coming, but not having anyone besides Dzingel make an impact in the last 2 years really hurt our standing and killed the depth of this team - you wonder if with this wave of Formenton, Brown, Batherson, Tchabuk, White IF there will be a 2nd wave to compliment them - no 1st round pick next year, no money to keep anyone, the road to redemption is extremely steep for this team.

but 1 good draft like Tampa had with Kucherov in the 2nd round, Palat in the in the 7th, and your 1st in Namestickov - you realize 1 good day for the franchise and you set yourself up for 10 solid years, MAYBE that's what happened on our draft day, or maybe it happens when EK gets traded.
thats what people dont get.. someone it really does take one draft to build a core.

i mean they dont even NEED to be homeruns. if tkatchuk ends up a top 6 winger and JBD and Tychonik are a 3 and 4... hey thats unreal.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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thats what people dont get.. someone it really does take one draft to build a core.

i mean they dont even NEED to be homeruns. if tkatchuk ends up a top 6 winger and JBD and Tychonik are a 3 and 4... hey thats unreal.

But if you want to go to the next level and be consistent playoff team you need to find the Kucherov, the Alfie, the Patrice Bergeron, Marchand (we got that in Stone) - but the depth around him isn't there. Stone could be skating on a line this season with Zach Smith as his center and Tom Pyatt as his winger - that gets you nowhere.
 
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Burrowsaurus

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But if you want to go to the next level and be consistent playoff team you need to find the Kucherov, the Alfie, the Patrice Bergeron, Marchand (we got that in Stone) - but the depth around him isn't there. Stone could be skating on a line this season with Zach Smith as his center and Tom Pyatt as his winger - that gets you nowhere.
well this is the beginning. we have a first line center.. we (for now) have a first D. i mean we need just 3 of our current prospects to hit. batherson brown white tkathcuk jbd tychonick and we could be in a verrry different position in 2 years time.
 

Tuna99

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well this is the beginning. we have a first line center.. we (for now) have a first D. i mean we need just 3 of our current prospects to hit. batherson brown white tkathcuk jbd tychonick and we could be in a verrry different position in 2 years time.

But are you feeling that? I think we have some nice pieces, but our lack of C depth and seeing Brown be a bit of a Galchenyuk type of sleepy player who's only dangerous on the PP doesn't give me a ton of confidence we'll have the type of players we need at C and D to succeed - Chabot is great, but his 2-way play will take years to develop.

I like some of our pieces, but overall I think we are missing a Bergeron / Alfie type of 2-way forechecking shut down forward who can carry an entire line of 2nd and 3rd liners. We remeber Alfie for the Pizza line, but he carried Todd White/ Arvedsson for years, not exactly top laent - we need another couple of forwards who just give you a winning element and beyond Batherson and Tchauk Im not feeling that impact type of forward in our prospect pool
 

Sensinitis

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But are you feeling that? I think we have some nice pieces, but our lack of C depth and seeing Brown be a bit of a Galchenyuk type of sleepy player who's only dangerous on the PP doesn't give me a ton of confidence we'll have the type of players we need at C and D to succeed - Chabot is great, but his 2-way play will take years to develop.

I like some of our pieces, but overall I think we are missing a Bergeron / Alfie type of 2-way forechecking shut down forward who can carry an entire line of 2nd and 3rd liners. We remeber Alfie for the Pizza line, but he carried Todd White/ Arvedsson for years, not exactly top laent - we need another couple of forwards who just give you a winning element and beyond Batherson and Tchauk Im not feeling that impact type of forward in our prospect pool

Did u just judge Brown and call him a sleepy Galchenyuk player who is only dangerous on the PP before he even played 5 NHL games?

LOL, seriously?
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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But are you feeling that? I think we have some nice pieces, but our lack of C depth and seeing Brown be a bit of a Galchenyuk type of sleepy player who's only dangerous on the PP doesn't give me a ton of confidence we'll have the type of players we need at C and D to succeed - Chabot is great, but his 2-way play will take years to develop.

I like some of our pieces, but overall I think we are missing a Bergeron / Alfie type of 2-way forechecking shut down forward who can carry an entire line of 2nd and 3rd liners. We remeber Alfie for the Pizza line, but he carried Todd White/ Arvedsson for years, not exactly top laent - we need another couple of forwards who just give you a winning element and beyond Batherson and Tchauk Im not feeling that impact type of forward in our prospect pool

Colin White seems like he could be that type of player.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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But are you feeling that? I think we have some nice pieces, but our lack of C depth and seeing Brown be a bit of a Galchenyuk type of sleepy player who's only dangerous on the PP doesn't give me a ton of confidence we'll have the type of players we need at C and D to succeed - Chabot is great, but his 2-way play will take years to develop.

I like some of our pieces, but overall I think we are missing a Bergeron / Alfie type of 2-way forechecking shut down forward who can carry an entire line of 2nd and 3rd liners. We remeber Alfie for the Pizza line, but he carried Todd White/ Arvedsson for years, not exactly top laent - we need another couple of forwards who just give you a winning element and beyond Batherson and Tchauk Im not feeling that impact type of forward in our prospect pool
before the players develop, this is a question ALL teams have.not just us.

you ask if i really feel that.. my answer is yes.. simply because i have no reason NOT to feel that. i dont watch these kids game in game out. scouts seem to like them.. if watch a bunch of UND games next year i will be able to fully answer the question.

Boston and Ottawa didnt even know they had bergeron and Alfie type players until bergeron and alfi BECAME bergeron and alfie type players. weve seen stone carry pageau and smith. also people say " well we only have stone" WE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WE HAD STONE UNTIL STONE BECAME STONE" these prospects are just that, prospects. youre just not guarenteed a superstar unless youre picking 1-2. thats life we lost the lottery.

Beyond batherson and tkathcuk..how many do you want? remember we get another draft next year.. and the year after.. for free.

EDIT; and i dont think anything on this board could possibly in their right mind call me an optimist.. but some of this is getting slightly crazy
 

Tuna99

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Did u just judge Brown and call him a sleepy Galchenyuk player who is only dangerous on the PP before he even played 5 NHL games?

LOL, seriously?

Some players you can tell by the way they play the game, in hokcey it's hard to get crazy players like Marchand / Fleury to not play crazy, it's hard to gte players like Neil / Fisher to not play hard hockey, it's hard to getplayers like Spezza / Galcheknyuk to play 2-way - Brown to me is in that mold of dangerous around the net, sleep in the other 2 zones.

I think our 2 buggest im,pact forwards will be Batherson and Tachuk - just by the play they lay the game. Anyone who tached Stone in the WJC knew he was good in the slot, on the perimiter and was good at give and go simple hockey. Same with Chabot, we knew he played the game wanting the puck but he struggled without the puck - players improve but the essence of their game doesn't change that much IMO
 
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Sensinitis

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Some players you can tell by the way they play the game, in hokcey it's hard to get crazy players like Marchand / Fleury to not play crazy, it's hard to gte players like Neil / Fisher to not play hard hockey, it's hard to getplayers like Spezza / Galcheknyuk to play 2-way - Brown to me is in that mold of dangerous around the net, sleep in the other 2 zones.

I think our 2 buggest im,pact forwards will be Batherson and Tachuk - just by the play they lay the game. Anyone who tached Stone in the WJC knew he was good in the slot, on the perimiter and was good at give and go simple hockey. Same with Chabot, we knew he played the game wanting the puck but he struggled without the puck - players improve but the essence of their game doesn't change that much IMO

Right, so confirmation bias and judging a player based on a small sample size and before he even laces them up as a full-timer is the method you’re using. Gotch’ya. Galch has a bunch of off-ice issues you don’t know about that contribute to his lack of success. And Spezza was an amazing player in his prime... if Brown becomes just 70% of that we have a player and a half. He has more size and reach as well.

You may be right about Drake and Brady, but that’s hardly the point.
 

Sting

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I have low expectations for Brown. I think he has all the tools, but physically, like Spezza, just doesn't seem to have the right build to be a top-end player. Now, mind you, Spezza got by during his prime because he was that talented. Brown is essentially a poor man's Spezza from what I can see. There's potential there, but he really would need to be in unbelievable shape to become a top line center in my opinion.

I agree that Tkachuk and Batherson will probably project to be better players from what I've seen.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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Right, so confirmation bias and judging a player based on a small sample size and before he even laces them up as a full-timer is the method you’re using. Gotch’ya. Galch has a bunch of off-ice issues you don’t know about that contribute to his lack of success. And Spezza was an amazing player in his prime... if Brown becomes just 70% of that we have a player and a half. He has more size and reach as well.

You may be right about Drake and Brady, but that’s hardly the point.

Projecting is what scouting is about, if not, they'd just issue the players based on Aphabetical order 1-31 to the clubs.

When Trent Mann says Brady plays the game by dragging his team into the fight, that's a characteristic of his game. We can judge players based on their game at 18, very few players change the way they play. Hossa always played fast 2-way hockey, Volcehnkov always played a shot blocking, come out of the corners hockey, Fisher played hockey on his skates and wasn't afraid of the corners or the blue ice - you can't turn Shane Prince into a blue paint player like you can't turn Brown into a 2-way Bergeron type of player.

And off ice issues with Galchenyuk I've heard all about - but it didn't change his game to mean he floats for 75% of the game. Same as how Hoffman had obvious off ice issues, didn't change how he played a puck hog game.
 
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topshelf15

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Projecting is what scouting is about, if not, they'd just issue the players based on Aphabetical order 1-31 to the clubs.

When Trent Mann says Brady plays the game by dragging his team into the fight, that's a characteristic of his game. We can judge players based on their game at 18, very few players change the way they play. Hossa always played fast 2-way hockey, Volcehnkov always played a shot blocking, come out of the corners hockey, Fisher played hockey on his skates and wasn't afraid of the corners or the blue ice - you can't turn Shane Prince into a blue paint player like you can't turn Brown into a 2-way Bergeron type of player.

And off ice issues with Galchenyuk I've heard all about - but it didn't change his game to mean he floats for 75% of the game. Same as how Hoffman had obvious off ice issues, didn't change how he played a puck hog game.
Yep and for that reason we should play him with Brown....We know what Tkachuk is going to do in and around the net..They would be a nice counter to each others weakness,I can see Tkachuk getting reeled in from time to time by his center,and Brown getting fired up at times by his winger
 
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Xspyrit

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But if you want to go to the next level and be consistent playoff team you need to find the Kucherov, the Alfie, the Patrice Bergeron, Marchand (we got that in Stone) - but the depth around him isn't there. Stone could be skating on a line this season with Zach Smith as his center and Tom Pyatt as his winger - that gets you nowhere.

I have no idea why Boucher would play a Pyatt-Smith-Stone line

It’s way more likely that he plays with Dzingel, Boedker, Pageau, Duchene, Ryan and probably even Brown

If I was the coach I would go

Ryan-Brown-Stone

Stone brings the best in other players. If Brown and Ryan produce, you are in really good shape. That would be a very skilled line and everybody brings specific elements that are not in every hockey player.

But are you feeling that? I think we have some nice pieces, but our lack of C depth and seeing Brown be a bit of a Galchenyuk type of sleepy player who's only dangerous on the PP doesn't give me a ton of confidence we'll have the type of players we need at C and D to succeed

On the opposite, I think the Center depth will be a big strength of the team.
Duchene, Brown, Batherson, White, Chlapik, Pageau. I think we’ll easily have 3 good/great centers and 2/3 of them will have to play on the wing.

On defense, it’s still early too tell but assuming we keep EK, we have Karlsson and Chabot as building blocks and then Jaros, Wolanin, Ceci, JND, Tychonick, Lajoie, Bergman, Harpur, etc. I think you have a good chance to build a decent/good defense.

I like some of our pieces, but overall I think we are missing a Bergeron / Alfie type of 2-way forechecking shut down forward who can carry an entire line of 2nd and 3rd liners. We remeber Alfie for the Pizza line, but he carried Todd White/ Arvedsson for years, not exactly top laent - we need another couple of forwards who just give you a winning element and beyond Batherson and Tchauk Im not feeling that impact type of forward in our prospect pool

Strange that you say that because Stone is exactly that type of player... Did you know that he averaged 70 pts per 82 games in his 4 full NHL seasons. That’s on top on being a Selke level winger and the king by far at stealing the puck. He makes anyone he plays with better

If only Batherson and Tkachuk hit, you still have

Tkachuk-Duchene-Dzingel
Ryan-Batherson-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-White
 
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Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
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Nah. 20 goal scoring 2way 2nd liner.

I really don’t see that kind of offensive upside when I watch him (same response to the MacArthur comparison).

I don’t know squat about evaluating prospects, but he doesn’t look like a 2nd line player to me.
 

Icelevel

During these difficult times...
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I really don’t see that kind of offensive upside when I watch him (same response to the MacArthur comparison).

I don’t know squat about evaluating prospects, but he doesn’t look like a 2nd line player to me.
He could end up a 2nd-3rd line tweener.
But I think if he keeps developing then in the next couple years he should end up a strong 2nd liner.
It’s no guarantee you’re right about that.
 

Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
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He could end up a 2nd-3rd line tweener.
But I think if he keeps developing then in the next couple years he should end up a strong 2nd liner.
It’s no guarantee you’re right about that.

Of course, I never gave a guarantee haha. Just stating my opinion and why I, along with a few others it seems, are not 100% sold on this team’s C depth moving forward.
 

Icelevel

During these difficult times...
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Of course, I never gave a guarantee haha. Just stating my opinion and why I, along with a few others it seems, are not 100% sold on this team’s C depth moving forward.
I just don’t see “best case scenario” as a 3rd line player. That’s like worst case scenario. He’s at least a 3C
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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I don’t see it. Best case scenario (in my extremely uneducated opinion) is that White develops into a decent 3C. I think he’s basically a bigger Pageau.
well like i "reported" karlsson thinks white is the real deal. so that makes me reserve my judgement (ive been super critical of white in the past)
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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well like i "reported" karlsson thinks white is the real deal. so that makes me reserve my judgement (ive been super critical of white in the past)
He wasnt wrong about JGP .....White is going to be nhler,how good Iam unsure...But pretty easy to see at least a hard working bottom 6 player in him
 

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