At 15th Overall (via Trade) the Red Wings Select G Sebastian Cossa

Marky9er

Registered User
Jan 30, 2008
7,476
729
I don't know quite what to make of Team USA's WJC team, I think Canada's is going to be one of their more balanced and stronger teams in a while.
I'm really unsure things have been disrupted so much I'm clueless at this point. Always was but this time I didn't have a chance.

Back to Cossa I'm a little unnerved about late birthdate and a strong jr team but I think that's just a previous trauma and similarities thankfully end there.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
2,369
Philadelphia
Yeah. But just taking some good goalies doesn’t mean we are doing that.

Also, if the Habs any other GM than Bargain Bin… their defense would not have been Weber-Chiarot- Edmundson-Petry.

you would chuck out Chiarot for Sergachev and Edmundson for Mcdonagh.

I mean, without some truly awful trades on that defense, Montreal would be in a much better place.

you're talking past me man.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
6,135
1,563
Really excited about this pick. I think Yzerman is taking some gambles to try and fill positions that we've lacked for so long. I still don't mind that we don't have a center my guess is that Yzerman is trying to fill the backend while we are going through this period of terrible lottery luck and gambling that we hit the lottery where we can take a center. There is always a center in the top 5 but D are more rare and first round goalies even more so. I like that Yzerman went 2 straight years on a D and Goalie focus. When is the last time we had a goalie to be this excited about and now we have two tickets to a legit starter for the core. This has been a great 3 days to be a wings fan.
 

Ed Ned and Leddy

Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Apr 1, 2019
3,611
5,811
Detroit to DC
Love his interview, kid is brimming with the confidence necessary to succeed as an NHL goaltender.

I have zero issues with Jesper Wallstedt, hope he goes on to have a great career in Minnesota. The players will inevitably be compared by some. I really like Cossa, and I'm excited to see him develop and hopefully have a nice career here in Detroit.

Edit: Also, I've been pretty bullish that if we want a top goalie in the first round we should trade up from a late first/early second instead of spending a top 10 pick. I think that strategy was justified a bit last night with both Cossa and Wallstedt on the board at #15.
 
Last edited:

wingfan

Registered User
Jul 1, 2012
868
419
I am pretty pissy about it to be honest. We desperately need center help. Why do we refuse to take a risk at the position. It does not effing matter what you have in net if your center depth is non existent. It means absolutely zilch. We have all seen the even semi proven goalies can be had relatively cheap. This is the first time I’ve been mad at Steve Yzerman.

There was no risk to be taken because the two centers with high end potential were taken 3rd and 5th. The rest of these guys in the first round, including Beniers, projected to be two way, low event hockey middle 6 centers. Those aren’t take a risk and swing for the fences guys, those are safe picks.
 

TheClap

Registered User
Jul 20, 2014
424
326
To put it into perspective out of all the goalies ever taken in the first round only 6 goalies have over 350 wins. Out of all the goalies drafted in the first there have been 14 goalies that played 6 or less games total! 14!!!!!!!

This is the perfect example of a cherry picked statline to construct a biased narrative while ignoring context.

Only 23 goalies in NHL history have over 350 wins.

Furthermore, The NHL draft didn't exist in its modern form until 1969, when teams could no longer sponsor junior players and sign them directly, as had been the case up to that point.
There are 5 goalies with 350+ wins that are pre-draft era, Sawchuck, Plante, Esposito, Hall, and Vachon.

So only 18 goalies in the draft era have 350+ wins. That's an incredibly small sample size.

In a sport where you have 12 forwards, 6 defensemen, and 1 goalie on the ice at any given time, it makes perfect sense that success in goal would be much more of a crap shoot.

If you want to make a legitimate point use your same metrics for every other position given your criteria and adjust accordingly. For simplicities sake, a forward has 12x the chance of getting in a game over a goalie, and a defensemen 6x the chance.

How many forwards drafted in the first round are top 23 all time in goals or points vs how many played 72 games or less NHL games?
How many defensemen drafted in the first round are in the top 23 all time in goals or points vs how many played in 36 or less NHL games?

Compare those ratios to what you found with goalies and see if there's a significant difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bench

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
38
Toronto
Drafting goalies in the first round is pretty rare, and the success rate of it looks to be a little worse than 50-50 over the past 20 years.

Here is a list of all the goalies I could find drafted in the 1st round and their # of NHL games played.

Marc Andre Fleury - 900 GP
Carey Price - 729 GP
Cam Ward - 701 GP
Kari Lehtonen - 649 GP
Tuuka Rask - 571 GP
Seymon Varlamov - 543GP
Devan Dubnyk - 542 GP
Cory Schneider - 409 GP
Jonathan Bernier - 393 GP
Anrei Vasilevskiy - 325 GP
Pascal Leclaire - 173 GP
Al Montoya - 168 GP
Jack Campbell - 86 GP
Malcolm Subban - 82 GP
Dan Blackburn - 63 GP
Hannu Toivonen - 61 GP
Ilya Samsonov - 45 GP
Jason Bacashihua - 38 GP
Jake Oettinger - 29 GP
Leland Irving - 13 GP
Marek Schwarz - 4 GP
Tom McCollum - 3 GP
Rico Helenius - 1 GP
Marc Visentin - 1 GP
Adam Munro - 0 GP
Yaroslav Askarov - 0 GP
Chet Pickard - 0 GP

Some great goalies on that list, but also a lot of busts, and almost all of the good ones have changed teams at least once. I know i'm in the minority on this but I wouldn't draft a goalie in any round under any circumstance. I think its a waste of a draft pick and better used on a position player. There are always goalies available.
 

Roomba With a Bauer

Registered User
Sep 11, 2007
4,170
2,616
There are always goalies available.

If you look at the last 16 Stanley Cup winning teams, pretty much 14 out of 16 won with goalies they found or drafted and developed.

Anaheim acquired Giguere when he had less than 30 NHL games played and Boston acquired Tim Thomas with 0 NHL games played. So pretty much 16/16 cups won with goalies that were playing with their first real NHL team.

You can always get "a goalie". You can't always get "a good goalie".
 

TheClap

Registered User
Jul 20, 2014
424
326
Drafting goalies in the first round is pretty rare, and the success rate of it looks to be a little worse than 50-50 over the past 20 years.

Here is a list of all the goalies I could find drafted in the 1st round and their # of NHL games played.

Marc Andre Fleury - 900 GP
Carey Price - 729 GP
Cam Ward - 701 GP
Kari Lehtonen - 649 GP
Tuuka Rask - 571 GP
Seymon Varlamov - 543GP
Devan Dubnyk - 542 GP
Cory Schneider - 409 GP
Jonathan Bernier - 393 GP
Anrei Vasilevskiy - 325 GP
Pascal Leclaire - 173 GP
Al Montoya - 168 GP
Jack Campbell - 86 GP
Malcolm Subban - 82 GP
Dan Blackburn - 63 GP
Hannu Toivonen - 61 GP
Ilya Samsonov - 45 GP
Jason Bacashihua - 38 GP
Jake Oettinger - 29 GP
Leland Irving - 13 GP
Marek Schwarz - 4 GP
Tom McCollum - 3 GP
Rico Helenius - 1 GP
Marc Visentin - 1 GP
Adam Munro - 0 GP
Yaroslav Askarov - 0 GP
Chet Pickard - 0 GP

Some great goalies on that list, but also a lot of busts, and almost all of the good ones have changed teams at least once. I know i'm in the minority on this but I wouldn't draft a goalie in any round under any circumstance. I think its a waste of a draft pick and better used on a position player. There are always goalies available.

Like with my response to bellringer77's post, that's also a pretty meaningless correlation in a vacuum.
Do the same thing with every other position and see what you find.
I may be wrong, but I'd wager the success rate is comparable, especially factoring in how many more roster slots you have a chance to break into the league with as a skater.

You draft based on your organizational needs and the talent level of what's available. If it's a goalie at that pick, then so be it. Wings had 2 major needs to address at that point in the draft, center and goalie. I think Cossa is just as likely to become a mainstay in the NHL as any other pick they could have made at that selection. As always, time will tell.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,728
2,136
Detroit
While you can get goalies late in the draft or via free agency, no position can single handedly carry ones team moreso than an elite goalie.. hello price vs mcdavid.

Not calling cossa price anymore so than calling a top 15 player mcdavid.

Having an elite or even top starting goalie is huge

Tampa bay would not have won b2b cups without vasilvesky but would have just the same without stamkos
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
38
Toronto
Like with my response to bellringer77's post, that's also a pretty meaningless correlation in a vacuum.
Do the same thing with every other position and see what you find.
I may be wrong, but I'd wager the success rate is comparable, especially factoring in how many more roster slots you have a chance to break into the league with as a skater.

You draft based on your organizational needs and the talent level of what's available. If it's a goalie at that pick, then so be it. Wings had 2 major needs to address at that point in the draft, center and goalie. I think Cossa is just as likely to become a mainstay in the NHL as any other pick they could have made at that selection. As always, time will tell.

Around 74% of first round picks play at least 100 NHL games, 44% for goalies drafted in the same round (in the last 20 years).

If you look at the last 16 Stanley Cup winning teams, pretty much 14 out of 16 won with goalies they found or drafted and developed.

Anaheim acquired Giguere when he had less than 30 NHL games played and Boston acquired Tim Thomas with 0 NHL games played. So pretty much 16/16 cups won with goalies that were playing with their first real NHL team.

You can always get "a goalie". You can't always get "a good goalie".

And almost all of those goalies have since signed elsewhere as free agents or been traded. Unless your position is that once a player gets traded he can never win another cup i'm not sure you're getting my point.

There are only 32 jobs available so there is always going to be someone available if your pro scouts can identify him, like Yzermans did in acquiring Ned.

Maybe I overstated by saying I'd never take one in any round, but I certainly wouldn't ever take one in round 1, and I definitely would never trade up to take a goalie.

This also isn't anything against Cossa who looks like a stud, I just feel like goalies are at the best of times a gamble and if you're going to gamble you should be looking to tilt the odds in your favor. I'd rather pick up a young goalie later in his development so I have a better idea of what I'm getting.
Look at the Ned trade, that to me is a perfect example of what we should be looking for. It cost us only Bernier's rights and a 3rd. Cossa cost us the #23 pick a 2nd rounder and a fifth and statistics say he has generously a 50/50 chance of developing to where Ned is already.
 

Coach Reggie Dunlop

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
913
1,256
Michigan
In my mind I just see no way cossa isn’t an NHL goalie someday. Hearing about his confidence, work ethic and the way he goes about things I’m more confident in him than I have ever been in a prospect. Tremendous kid and my favorite pick we made in the draft.
 

TheClap

Registered User
Jul 20, 2014
424
326
Around 74% of first round picks play at least 100 NHL games, 44% for goalies drafted in the same round (in the last 20 years).

But again, if you consider that there's generally only one spot for a goalie on any given night, and 18 spots on the ice for skaters, a large discrepancy should be expected, and at 74% for 18 guys dressed on any given night vs 44% for 2 guys dressed and only one playing, frankly that discrepancy is even smaller than I would have imagined.

Cossa cost us the #23 pick a 2nd rounder and a fifth and statistics say he has generously a 50/50 chance of developing to where Ned is already.

Saying Cossa "cost us" the 23rd pick is pretty disingenuous too. Wings swapped up 8 spots from the 23rd at the cost of the 2nd and the 5th rounder.
 

Wyzer Plan

Registered User
May 11, 2011
589
119
This was a good time to snatch a goalie just like next year is a better time to draft a center. We need high end centers and I just didn't see any past the first two drafted, might as well wait for the right pitch instead of swinging wildly at everything and anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ricky0034

heyfolks

Registered User
Apr 30, 2007
1,748
511
As the draft played out, it is clear the Wings had Cossa rated over Wallstedt and they felt the Wild had the same board.

Was it worth the picks to move up is the lingering question. It appears one of the would have been there in the Caps spot. After the trade, I didn't think they would go goalie but I also though they would go center at 6, especially with Eklund sitting there.

You never know how these things turn out for a few years. Goalies in the top spot are a risk and, with this position, it is usually more than a couple of years.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,866
6,945
As the draft played out, it is clear the Wings had Cossa rated over Wallstedt and they felt the Wild had the same board.

Was it worth the picks to move up is the lingering question. It appears one of the would have been there in the Caps spot. After the trade, I didn't think they would go goalie but I also though they would go center at 6, especially with Eklund sitting there.

You never know how these things turn out for a few years. Goalies in the top spot are a risk and, with this position, it is usually more than a couple of years.

I think it's probably pretty safe to say that the Wings don't view Eklund as a Center

Draper even called him a Winger when talking about not taking him last night
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->