Astros punishments: Hinch and Luhnow suspended and fired, team loses 1st and 2nd picks in 2020, 2021

[Voight]

The CBA gives the players immunity from sign stealing.

No it doesn’t. That was a deal the MLB gave the players in order to testify. They didn’t want their Golden Boys in Houston to get suspend for cheating so that had them blame management as the league makes money off the players not the coaches or GMs

 

[Voight]

 

[punk_o_holic]

We don't know though what level teams have gone to, that's whats so frustrating. Milwaukee and the NY Mets accused the Dodgers of using video to steal signs, according to another Athletic article back in 2018. But it wasn't a hot issue at the time and as far as I know, wasn't followed up on by MLB. The Yankees and Red Sox had their issues with Boston using apple watches and the Yankees using their video replay room. Again it was prior I believe to the league's mandate about using tech to steal signs, so they didn't get punished harshly. But they still did something. The original article that exposed Houston said several times this wasn't a one-team issue. Since the scandal broke some former players have also said this isn't anything new. Twitter reports have said many teams were doing it. Is MLB investigating all this or are we stuck until the next Fiers comes forward?

I don't care if it was an apple watch or a camera and trash can. If you're stealing signs electronically that's illegal. And what is baseball going to do to stop this from happening again? Is this going to be an ongoing distraction all season? Is every Houston win going to be analyzed for hours on ESPN?

Maybe I'm jaded from following baseball for so long. MLB looked the other way on 10-15 years of steroid use which completely affected titles, players careers, wins and losses, stats, you name it. Baseball has a history of cheating. Yes the guilty need to be punished but if you're going to clean house then do it properly.

I think nothing happens until the next Mike Fiers comes out. Before he said anything, teams complained about Houston. They investigated and found nothing wink wink. I think other teams complained about other teams and again MLB found "nothing". Since Fiers came out and when video evidence started popping up they had no choice to investigate and find evidence and to punish the Astros. Like you said, reports of other teams cheating but Manfred said he feels it was just the Astros even if he knows or feels others are cheating. He doesn't want cheating to be a multi team thing. I honestly think they will say they didn't find anything major regarding Boston and they probably get a small fine and that's it.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

No it doesn’t. That was a deal the MLB gave the players in order to testify. They didn’t want their Golden Boys in Houston to get suspend for cheating so that had them blame management as the league makes money off the players not the coaches or GMs

Nope. The electronics were the only illegal part. That's the only part they needed immunity from. Sign stealing w/o electronics is okay. Manfred stated that only the GM and manager would be punished and it was "impractical" to punish the players, because of the difficulty of determining the degree of guilt. This is why the players should stop whining. He already stated publicly what would happen. MLB has known about teams using sign stealing electronics and issued the first warning in September 2017. Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[Voight]

Nope. The electronics were the only illegal part. That's the only part they needed immunity from. Sign stealing w/o electronics is okay. Manfred stated that only the GM and manager would be punished and it was "impractical" to punish the players, because of the difficulty of determining the degree of guilt. This is why the players should stop whining. He already stated publicly what would happen. MLB has known about teams using sign stealing electronics and issued the first warning in September 2017. Not everything is a conspiracy.

MLBs warning was farce. This investigation would have never happened if Fiers dint tell the media about it.

Sign stealing isnt "OK" its just widely accepted as part of the game. However the Astro and their players went above and beyond that, as did Boston. Thats where teams got angry. The cherry on top if both teams won championships while cheating.

Luhnow/Hinch were just the scapegoats. Easy to fire them as they don't have a union to fight the league on it. Crane should be thanking the heavens all he had to do was fire them, pay a minor fine and lose a couple of picks.

As far as I know, nowhere does it say in the CBA "sign stealing is good and the players cannot be held accountable"

 

[southsideIrish]

I think nothing happens until the next Mike Fiers comes out. Before he said anything, teams complained about Houston. They investigated and found nothing wink wink. I think other teams complained about other teams and again MLB found "nothing". Since Fiers came out and when video evidence started popping up they had no choice to investigate and find evidence and to punish the Astros. Like you said, reports of other teams cheating but Manfred said he feels it was just the Astros even if he knows or feels others are cheating. He doesn't want cheating to be a multi team thing. I honestly think they will say they didn't find anything major regarding Boston and they probably get a small fine and that's it.

I disagree on Boston. They (along with NY) have already been busted for electronic sign stealing, and were quietly fined. Like I said above I don't care if those schemes weren't as elaborate as Houston's setup. It's illegal. Which is why it's funny the Yankees have been one of the loudest complainers. But with Boston, if it's found they did something else that technically makes them a two-time offender and should be punished accordingly.

I just don't know what else is out there, reports come out all the time but are they real? I'm about as knowledgeable with social media and blogs as a pet rock, but on two White Sox blogs recently I saw posts on Girardi's odd comment on MLB net about being part of a "system" to relay signs from "upstairs". Same guy's twitter account through AM670 in Chicago says he was told by an MLB analyst that up to eight teams in addition to Houston, Boston, and NY were using tech to steal signs. I agree with you though, MLB will probably only half-heartedly look into this stuff, if at all. It will have to be someone else coming forward.

 

[The Lemonheads]

Please... don't stop, Houston. Incredible.

 

[FiveTacos]

There's only a couple ways out at this point.

1) The Astros need to legitimately apologize, admit their win was tainted, and stop acting like victims or trying to say it was these other guys and not me. Of course, this ain't happening.

2) The commissioner needs to go back and vacate the title. But he'll look wishy washy to do it now, so he won't.

3) The details, not the generalities, of the investigation need to be released. Let everyone know who was involved, who did what, when, etc.. This can still be done.

I will say, the public humiliation and scorn, and the damage to their legacies, is not insignificant punishment. With all these other players dissing the Astros, I heard Jeff Passan yesterday say that a player privately told him he'd rather have been suspended. Being an MLB player is an exclusive club ... to suddenly be social outcasts and pariahs within that club is not a pleasant thing to go through. You won't see any friendly banter before/after games, or handshakes. They won't be getting chatty texts throughout the season from buddies on other teams inviting them over to their house when they're in town.

It's also not a coincidence that the ones closest to FA were most apologetic at first ... when they're out trying to get a bidding war going in the next year or two, how hard is that going to be if star players from other teams say, "no way I'm playing with that cheating scum." I tell you what, no way they get any interest from the two biggest bidders (NYY and LAD). So they're going to take a hit in the pocketbook in the long run.

They may be able to circle the wagons for a while ... but there's always a breaking point. I sure would not want to be one of those guys right now, and the more anger, arrogance and bravado they show, the more you know it's actually getting to them. And they think it's rough now, before they have to actually face other teams in person? The first time one of their former best buds on another team calls them a POS to their face and walks the other way, it's gonna hurt. I guarantee you it's coming.

 

[KMart27]

I disagree on Boston. They (along with NY) have already been busted for electronic sign stealing, and were quietly fined. Like I said above I don't care if those schemes weren't as elaborate as Houston's setup. It's illegal. Which is why it's funny the Yankees have been one of the loudest complainers. But with Boston, if it's found they did something else that technically makes them a two-time offender and should be punished accordingly.

I just don't know what else is out there, reports come out all the time but are they real? I'm about as knowledgeable with social media and blogs as a pet rock, but on two White Sox blogs recently I saw posts on Girardi's odd comment on MLB net about being part of a "system" to relay signs from "upstairs". Same guy's twitter account through AM670 in Chicago says he was told by an MLB analyst that up to eight teams in addition to Houston, Boston, and NY were using tech to steal signs. I agree with you though, MLB will probably only half-heartedly look into this stuff, if at all. It will have to be someone else coming forward.

When did the Yankees get fined for electronic sign stealing?

 

[Terry Yake]

so in other words "how dare he bring attention to the asstros cheating scandal because now my team got busted too." thanks for your input mr ortiz

 

[PanthersPens62]

Unpopular opinion........I LOVE what Ortiz said & I don't care if he is saying it on behalf of the Sox. Crawling back into my foxhole now, carry on.

 

[Terry Yake]

Unpopular opinion........I LOVE what Ortiz said & I don't care if he is saying it on behalf of the Sox. Crawling back into my foxhole now, carry on.

so blame the guy who brought attention to the biggest cheating operation in MLB history and not the actual cheaters themselves

got it

 

[Terry Yake]

this was a very interesting read

 

[Say Hey Kid]

• Yankees shut down Severino; IL stint 'possible'
• Big Papi: Fiers looks like 'snitch' for outing Astros
• Lucroy: Changed signs every pitch vs. Astros
• Phillies win arbitration case against Realmuto
• Bolsinger adds Crane, Vigoa to suit vs. Astros
• Indians' Carrasco to undergo testing on right leg
• Pennsylvania Little League district to drop 'Astros'
• 2 CA Little Leagues did the same thing.

 

[EpochLink]

What the f*** Ortiz?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Saying Fiers isn't completely virtuous is a fine take, but people that you should actually be mad at are the ones that broke the rules and were just fine continuing to get away with it.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Reddick somehow makes himself look the most smug scumbag of all the Astros, along with Crane.

"We don't need to (apologize)"
"We win. We shut everybody up"

 

[southsideIrish]

When did the Yankees get fined for electronic sign stealing?

Red Sox fined in sign-stealing flap; N.Y. docked

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Red Sox fined in sign-stealing flap; N.Y. docked

Did you read the article in its entirety, or just selectively?

“The investigation found "insufficient evidence," according to a statement released by Manfred's office, that the Yankees used their YES Network cameras to spy on the Red Sox, as Boston had alleged in a counterclaim.”

 

[southsideIrish]

Did you read the article in its entirety, or just selectively?

“The investigation found "insufficient evidence," according to a statement released by Manfred's office, that the Yankees used their YES Network cameras to spy on the Red Sox, as Boston had alleged in a counterclaim.”

And they were still fined though, that's not odd? There's too much smoke out there and the Yankees have come up potentially as one of the other teams involved numerous times. The comment I made this morning from a White Sox blog where an MLB network analyst named the Yankees as one of several teams stealing signs electronically, according to former and current players. Cora made comments (I know, one of the guilty), Beltran's comments about Houston being "behind the times" with sign stealing are well known. You can google sign stealing and find accusations going back five years, with several teams named.

But as you say there's no hard evidence yet. And it's unlikely MLB is going to go hard after the golden franchise of the league unless someone comes forward like Fiers did with detailed information.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

so in other words "how dare he bring attention to the asstros cheating scandal because now my team got busted too." thanks for your input mr ortiz

Ortiz can go f*** himself.

There's only a couple ways out at this point.

1) The Astros need to legitimately apologize, admit their win was tainted, and stop acting like victims or trying to say it was these other guys and not me. Of course, this ain't happening.

2) The commissioner needs to go back and vacate the title. But he'll look wishy washy to do it now, so he won't.

3) The details, not the generalities, of the investigation need to be released. Let everyone know who was involved, who did what, when, etc.. This can still be done.

1) Agreed - never happening.
3) Agreed - but I don't know that it really accomplishes anything. If it leads to further suspensions of off-field personnel involved in this, maybe I can buy into it - but that opportunity was already available and not exercised, so I suspect that would lead to lawsuits for every one of those cases.

2) I wonder if MLBPA would go to court to overturn such a move and how that would play out. It would certainly be interesting to watch the MLBPA fighting to defend ~3% of its players when a significant part of the union is screaming for more punishment. That said, I think Manfred avoids it only because he doesn't want to have to be in the position in the future of finding out someone else did something in the postseason and hearing screams to also revoke that title as well.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

And they were still fined though, that's not odd? There's too much smoke out there and the Yankees have come up potentially as one of the other teams involved numerous times. The comment I made this morning from a White Sox blog where an MLB network analyst named the Yankees as one of several teams stealing signs electronically, according to former and current players. Cora made comments (I know, one of the guilty), Beltran's comments about Houston being "behind the times" with sign stealing are well known. You can google sign stealing and find accusations going back five years, with several teams named.

But as you say there's no hard evidence yet. And it's unlikely MLB is going to go hard after the golden franchise of the league unless someone comes forward like Fiers did with detailed information.

Yup. They were fined for possibly overstepping the rules. However, they did not have an organization-wide system of far-reaching total violation of rules after receiving a memo from the commissioner directly addressing those rules.

 

[KMart27]

Red Sox fined in sign-stealing flap; N.Y. docked

That was for improper use of a dugout phone.

 

[EpochLink]

so in other words "how dare he bring attention to the asstros cheating scandal because now my team got busted too." thanks for your input mr ortiz

A really bad take from Ortiz here, so basically he’s mad at Fiers for calling him a snitch when the Red Sox are under fire themselves.

Stay out of it Papi

 

[Master P]

f*** the astros.





That is all