Astros punishments: Hinch and Luhnow suspended and fired, team loses 1st and 2nd picks in 2020, 2021

[John Price]

LeBron calls out Manfred: 'Listen to your players'
LeBron calls out Manfred: 'Listen to your players'

 

[DueDiligence]

So funny to see everybody get worked up over this while the Patriots have been openly cheating for Championships for over a decade...

Then they bring up points I've been making for years... Players lost opportunities.

What about all the teams cheated out of Championships?

St Louis would of had a mini dynasty and maybe never moved.

Panthers could have one or two SBs. Cam could have one.

Donovan McNabb and TO would be Super Bowl Champions. Maybe TO wouldn't be broke.

Atlanta and LA Rams could have Championships.

All the coaches and players out of jobs compared to these unrealistic tainted expectations. Patriots ruined way more lives than the Astros. I'm sure most MLB teams are doing this.

Well how many current and former NFL players have ever called out the Patriots??? Virtually none.
The Astros are being called out by many players including many of the elite like Trout , Bellinger and Judge.
The equivalent in football would be that the defensive team listened to the offensive play calls and new what they were going to run. Your argument is so far wrong it is laughable.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Well how many current and former NFL players have ever called out the Patriots??? Virtually none.
The Astros are being called out by many players including many of the elite like Trout , Bellinger and Judge.
The equivalent in football would be that the defensive team listened to the offensive play calls and new what they were going to run. Your argument is so far wrong it is laughable.

A lot of NFL players have called out the Patriots. Goodell is just a joke of a commissioner.

Patriots knew teams plays/audibles. It's the exact same thing. Where's the punishment for their newest cheating? The owners off-season transgressions?

 

[RockLobster]

I can't imagine Houston wasn't the only team cheating here. Maybe those who were weren't cheating to the degree Houston was but I sense there will be some crow to eat if that is ever to be revealed as true.Feel bad for Dusty Baker but he signed up for the bull****. Straight cash homey.

That's my justification for their WS championship not being taken away. Which is just symbolic anyhow as no one consider Michigan, not Louisville, the NCAA Basketball champions several years ago.

We know for sure Boston was up to something(surprise surprise) but nothing has been revealed as of yet.

For sure I don't believe that Houston was the ONLY team cheating/sign stealing. My own favorite team appears guilty of it.

However, if we agree that there's a spectrum in play here, then I would say that Houston is the only team to go to such great lengths, and apparently did it during the postseason. Every reporter who has commented on the incoming Red Sox punishment(s) has indicated that what the investigation has found was that Boston's malfeasance isn't as severe as Houston's was.

Houston just took it to another level.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Why MLB players are speaking up about sign stealing like nothing else ever

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

For sure I don't believe that Houston was the ONLY team cheating/sign stealing. My own favorite team appears guilty of it.

However, if we agree that there's a spectrum in play here, then I would say that Houston is the only team to go to such great lengths, and apparently did it during the postseason. Every reporter who has commented on the incoming Red Sox punishment(s) has indicated that what the investigation has found was that Boston's malfeasance isn't as severe as Houston's was.

Houston just took it to another level.

Pretty much. Most players who have voiced an opinion on the issue have said there's a right way and a wrong way to try and steal signs. This was on a whole different planet. Then you have the commissioner making the voices louder by showing his blatant disregard for the sport in general.

 

[Static]

Feels like this is heading to new heights.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Stanton: I'd hit 80 HR if I knew the pitch coming

 

[DueDiligence]

A lot of NFL players have called out the Patriots. Goodell is just a joke of a commissioner.

Patriots knew teams plays/audibles. It's the exact same thing. Where's the punishment for their newest cheating? The owners off-season transgressions?

Why can't you face facts that the Astros are scum bags? Virtually every player on every other team is calling them out.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Why can't you face facts that the Astros are scum bags? Virtually every player on every other team is calling them out.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just surprised by the uproar because I'm immune to this after watching the Patriots openly cheat for 6 Championships in over a decade. Where was all this energy towards them?

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Manfred bringing the PA right under the bus with him lol

Can someone explain the PA motive in this? The PA is there as the players union, but it looks like they've alienated about 92% of that same union for one team. That doesn't make sense to me, or it puts the PA between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Halladay]

Can someone explain the PA motive in this? The PA is there as the players union, but it looks like they've alienated about 92% of that same union for one team. That doesn't make sense to me, or it puts the PA between a rock and a hard place.

I thought about this the other day. The rest of the players are pisses off. Just a terrible excuse.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just surprised by the uproar because I'm immune to this after watching the Patriots openly cheat for 6 Championships in over a decade. Where was all this energy towards them?

You must've forgot. Everyone hated the Pats.

But seriously, this is a classic example of whataboutism. Quite possibly the most cringeworthy way to defend anyone.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

The CBA gives the players immunity from sign stealing.

 

[southsideIrish]

For sure I don't believe that Houston was the ONLY team cheating/sign stealing. My own favorite team appears guilty of it.

However, if we agree that there's a spectrum in play here, then I would say that Houston is the only team to go to such great lengths, and apparently did it during the postseason. Every reporter who has commented on the incoming Red Sox punishment(s) has indicated that what the investigation has found was that Boston's malfeasance isn't as severe as Houston's was.

Houston just took it to another level.

We don't know though what level teams have gone to, that's whats so frustrating. Milwaukee and the NY Mets accused the Dodgers of using video to steal signs, according to another Athletic article back in 2018. But it wasn't a hot issue at the time and as far as I know, wasn't followed up on by MLB. The Yankees and Red Sox had their issues with Boston using apple watches and the Yankees using their video replay room. Again it was prior I believe to the league's mandate about using tech to steal signs, so they didn't get punished harshly. But they still did something. The original article that exposed Houston said several times this wasn't a one-team issue. Since the scandal broke some former players have also said this isn't anything new. Twitter reports have said many teams were doing it. Is MLB investigating all this or are we stuck until the next Fiers comes forward?

I don't care if it was an apple watch or a camera and trash can. If you're stealing signs electronically that's illegal. And what is baseball going to do to stop this from happening again? Is this going to be an ongoing distraction all season? Is every Houston win going to be analyzed for hours on ESPN?

Maybe I'm jaded from following baseball for so long. MLB looked the other way on 10-15 years of steroid use which completely affected titles, players careers, wins and losses, stats, you name it. Baseball has a history of cheating. Yes the guilty need to be punished but if you're going to clean house then do it properly.

 

[RockLobster]

We don't know though what level teams have gone to, that's whats so frustrating. Milwaukee and the NY Mets accused the Dodgers of using video to steal signs, according to another Athletic article back in 2018. But it wasn't a hot issue at the time and as far as I know, wasn't followed up on by MLB. The Yankees and Red Sox had their issues with Boston using apple watches and the Yankees using their video replay room. Again it was prior I believe to the league's mandate about using tech to steal signs, so they didn't get punished harshly. But they still did something. The original article that exposed Houston said several times this wasn't a one-team issue. Since the scandal broke some former players have also said this isn't anything new. Twitter reports have said many teams were doing it. Is MLB investigating all this or are we stuck until the next Fiers comes forward?

I don't care if it was an apple watch or a camera and trash can. If you're stealing signs electronically that's illegal. And what is baseball going to do to stop this from happening again? Is this going to be an ongoing distraction all season? Is every Houston win going to be analyzed for hours on ESPN?

Maybe I'm jaded from following baseball for so long. MLB looked the other way on 10-15 years of steroid use which completely affected titles, players careers, wins and losses, stats, you name it. Baseball has a history of cheating. Yes the guilty need to be punished but if you're going to clean house then do it properly.

I'm not advocating for not punishing the Red Sox (who are, admittedly, my favorite team). I'm advocating that IF MLB's investigation shows that what they did was nowhere near the level that Houston did, and I already believe it wasn't since they didn't do it in the postseason, then their subsequent punishment should not be on the same level.

By all means--they deserve to get hit with something if they are found to have committed a violation.

That's why I meant about there being a spectrum. I think most/all teams are trying to steal signals, the difference being the lengths some will go to do so. You probably have teams who just do it the old-fashioned way with a baserunner on 2nd trying to identify what is being thrown against what the signal was; then you had/have what the Yankees and Red Sox did/continued to do with regard to the Apple Watches; and then you had a MUCH MORE elaborate set-up that Houston employed...and there's still a real possibility that they used a buzzer system on top of that.

Not everything mentioned above deserves the same punishment.

 

[Emperoreddy]

MLBPA is throwing cold water on the idea that they insisted on player immunity and it was the commissioner’s office that was cold on the idea of player punishment.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

MLBPA is throwing cold water on the idea that they insisted on player immunity and it was the commissioner’s office that was cold on the idea of player punishment.

What do you think they're gonna say?They're trying to save their jobs. Name one time in baseball history something similar has happened. There are none. No reasonable person believes this.

The players got what they wanted and need to man up and stop their hypocritical whining about the Astros not being punished.

 

[Emperoreddy]

What do you think they're gonna say?They're trying to save their jobs. Name one time in baseball history something similar has happened. There are none. No reasonable person believes this.

The players got what they wanted and need to man up and stop their hypocritical whining about the Astros not being punished.

they most likely would have stonewalled punishments, but Manfred lied that he even presented the idea.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

What do you think they're gonna say?They're trying to save their jobs. Name one time in baseball history something similar has happened. There are none. No reasonable person believes this.

The players got what they wanted and need to man up and stop their hypocritical whining about the Astros not being punished.

Acting like everyone in the same union agrees with every part of their cba is silly. I disagree with portions of mine, but overall it's better than not having it.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

they most likely would have stonewalled punishments, but Manfred lied that he even presented the idea.

Yep. He tried to blame the union for his inaction, and it is backfiring.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yep. He tried to blame the union for his inaction, and it is backfiring.

And it is just another in a laundry list of ways he has botched this. From knowing about it all along, mocking the media folks who exposed it, the piece of metal crack, the slap on the wrist punishment.

The 2017 title needs to be vacated and he needs to lose his job. This shit isn’t going away without that.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

We all hated Selig, but Manfred is a classic example of grass isn't always greener.

 

[Terry Yake]

We all hated Selig, but Manfred is a classic example of grass isn't always greener.

manfred's making selig look amazing

the owners need to vote him out or something

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Manfred....Goodell...and hockey fans legit think Bettman is the worst commissioner in sports