Online Series: Asimov's Foundation series on Apple tv

Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
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I just don't know what to think. This series is an epic sci fi masterpiece. I really worry it will be impossible to truly bring it to the small screen in all its glory.


Yeah, I'm both extremely excited and extremely worried at the same time.
 

NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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Foundation doesn't really lend itself to television.

Virtually no action sequences.

It does say "based on" which I guess means they have some lattitude.
 

Eisen

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Sep 30, 2009
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I just don't know what to think. This series is an epic sci fi masterpiece. I really worry it will be impossible to truly bring it to the small screen in all its glory.

It's too long for the big screen. As a tv show it could work. Here's crossing my fingers they don't rewrite it in a major way. Another question is how many of the novels are they going to film? The first three? The second trilogy as well (I hated Gaia when I read it), do they add the development of psychohistory and Dors?
 
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Eisen

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Foundation doesn't really lend itself to television.

Virtually no action sequences.

It does say "based on" which I guess means they have some lattitude.
It doesn't need action. Also, you could have some with the Mule.
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
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It's too long for the big screen. As a tv show it could work. Here's crossing my fingers they don't rewrite it in a major way. Another question is how many of the novels are they going to film? The first three? The second trilogy as well (I hated Gaia when I read it), do they add the development of psychyhistory and Dors?

It will be interesting to see how far into the series they go. Goyer does mention the 1,000 years the series take place over so I am guessing they are leaving it open as to how far they go. I've read that Apple sees this as a Game of Thrones for them, I guess how Amazon is going with Lord of The Rings and Netflix has the Witcher....they all want these huge tent-pole, epic shows based on epic beloved series of novels.
 

Eisen

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It will be interesting to see how far into the series they go. Goyer does mention the 1,000 years the series take place over so I am guessing they are leaving it open as to how far they go. I've read that Apple sees this as a Game of Thrones for them, I guess how Amazon is going with Lord of The Rings and Netflix has the Witcher....they all want these huge tent-pole, epic shows based on epic beloved series of novels.
They could definitely do that. The episodes between the vault appearances could be fleshed out and full of political intrigue, just for the start. With a good writer that could already be a season and it didn't efen start properly then.
I'm already very interested. And for such an influential work it was strangely absent from the screen.
 

NyQuil

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It doesn't need action. Also, you could have some with the Mule.

Of course it doesn't.

That doesn't mean they won't try to put some in to attract the casuals.

I can't imagine the Mule coming into play for some time.

I suspect that, given how dry most of Asimov's material is (he is really more about ideas than execution), they are going to have to take a lot of liberties with his work, which will alienate some of the die-hard fans.

The trailer looks to be consistent with Prelude to Foundation / Forward the Foundation and could end with the establishment of the Foundation as opposed to the way the original novel begins with the Seldon Crises brought quickly to the forefront.
 
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Eisen

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Of course it doesn't.

That doesn't mean they won't try to put some in.

I can't imagine the Mule coming into play for some time.

I suspect that, given how dry most of Asimov's material is (he is really more about ideas than execution), they are going to have to take a lot of liberties with his work, which will alienate some of the die-hard fans.
That might be true. I know I wouldn't like it. As you said, it's about ideas and subtle manipulation, not fights. If you shoehorn in a lot of fights, how could they justify the Second Foundation?
 

NyQuil

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That might be true. I know I wouldn't like it. As you said, it's about ideas and subtle manipulation, not fights. If you shoehorn in a lot of fights, how could they justify the Second Foundation?

I've often thought about how to turn this into a movie or TV series and to be honest, I really thought it couldn't be done.

No characters are consistent because of the time jumps throughout the story. Every Seldon crisis could be a very interesting story in its own right, but the novel cruises along pretty quickly in its early stages.

So I'm rather curious.
 
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Eisen

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Of course it doesn't.

That doesn't mean they won't try to put some in to attract the casuals.

I can't imagine the Mule coming into play for some time.

I suspect that, given how dry most of Asimov's material is (he is really more about ideas than execution), they are going to have to take a lot of liberties with his work, which will alienate some of the die-hard fans.

The trailer looks to be consistent with Prelude to Foundation / Forward the Foundation and could end with the establishment of the Foundation as opposed to the way the original novel begins with the Seldon Crises brought quickly to the forefront.
I don't know. The black girl could be Gaal Dornick so the trailer could only be the very beginning of Foundation, then again, it could be Dors and then it might be Prelude/Forward.
 
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NyQuil

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I don't know. The black girl could be Gaal Dornick so the trailer could only be the very beginning of Foundation, then again, it could be Dors and then it might be Prelude/Forward.

I suppose the prequels are pretty dry as well - you don't really need a lot of time dedicated towards those plot lines.

They could probably summarize them in one or two episodes.
 

beowulf

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I don't know. The black girl could be Gaal Dornick so the trailer could only be the very beginning of Foundation, then again, it could be Dors and then it might be Prelude/Forward.

I was thinking about the last two released novels, aka the prequels, and whether they would include that.
 

beowulf

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Jan 29, 2005
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Now if someone out there had the vision and wanted to something really epic as a on-going series that would likely take a decade or more to play out would be to do all three series in order as Asimov created them to be in the same universe.

  1. I, Robot (1950) - a fixup novel composed of 9 short stories about robots, set in the 21st century on Earth
  2. The Positronic Man (1992) - a standalone robot novel, co-written with Robert Silverberg, based on Asimov's 1976 novelette "The Bicentennial Man", set from the 22nd to 24th centuries
  3. Nemesis (1989) - a standalone novel, set in the 23rd century in a star system about 2 light years from Earth, when interstellar travel was new
  4. The Caves of Steel (1954) - first Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on Earth[36]
  5. The Naked Sun (1957) - second Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on the Spacer planet Solaria[36]
  6. The Robots of Dawn (1983) - third Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on the Spacer planet Aurora[36]
  7. Robots and Empire (1985) - fourth Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 37th century on Earth, Solaria, Aurora, and Baleyworld[36]
  8. The Stars, Like Dust (1951) - first Empire Series novel, set thousands of years in the future before the founding of a Galactic Empire
  9. The Currents of Space (1952) - second Empire Series novel, set thousands of years in the future during Trantor's unification of the galaxy into a Galactic Empire
  10. Pebble in the Sky (1950) - third Empire Series novel, primarily set thousands of years in the future on Earth, when the galaxy is unified into a Galactic Empire
  11. Prelude to Foundation (1988) - first Foundation Series novel
  12. Forward the Foundation (1993) - second Foundation Series novel
  13. Foundation (1951) - third Foundation Series novel
  14. Foundation and Empire (1952) - fourth Foundation Series novel
  15. Second Foundation (1953) - fifth Foundation Series novel
  16. Foundation's Edge (1982) - sixth Foundation Series novel
  17. Foundation and Earth (1986) - seventh Foundation Series novel
  18. The End of Eternity (1955) - a standalone novel, about Eternity, an organization "outside time" which aims to improve human happiness by altering history
Also another source of material to fill out the Foundation Apple series would be from Foundation's Friends if they really wanted extra stuff....not that they need it.
 
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NyQuil

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What's funny about Asimov is that the stories were written so long ago that inevitably there is some cringe-worthy social commentary at times and behaviours that probably wouldn't fly in today's society.

So there will have to be some kind of modernization of his material.

One character I've always liked is Susan Calvin, who could be a terrific protagonist in our current age. She's probably the most well-developed and well-rounded individual in the Asimov universe. She appeared in the film I Robot but was a pale copy of the actual character.

Susan Calvin embraces robopsychology because of her own deep-seated psychological issues - caring for and understanding robots in a manner that she never could with humanity.

"Liar!" and "Evidence / The Evitable Conflict" (both in Robot Visions and both featuring Susan Calvin) represent high points of managing to blend character and science fiction concepts. In general, I found Asimov to be great on ideas, and short on character.

IMO, Olivaw and Baley, despite their popularity, are showing their age as fairly one-dimensional Holmes and Watson archetypes.
 
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Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
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Now if someone out there had the vision and wanted to something really epic as a on-going series that would likely take a decade or more to play out would be to do all three series in order as Asimov created them to be in the same universe.

  1. I, Robot (1950) - a fixup novel composed of 9 short stories about robots, set in the 21st century on Earth
  2. The Positronic Man (1992) - a standalone robot novel, co-written with Robert Silverberg, based on Asimov's 1976 novelette "The Bicentennial Man", set from the 22nd to 24th centuries
  3. Nemesis (1989) - a standalone novel, set in the 23rd century in a star system about 2 light years from Earth, when interstellar travel was new
  4. The Caves of Steel (1954) - first Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on Earth[36]
  5. The Naked Sun (1957) - second Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on the Spacer planet Solaria[36]
  6. The Robots of Dawn (1983) - third Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 35th century on the Spacer planet Aurora[36]
  7. Robots and Empire (1985) - fourth Robot Series/R. Daneel Olivaw novel, set in the 37th century on Earth, Solaria, Aurora, and Baleyworld[36]
  8. The Stars, Like Dust (1951) - first Empire Series novel, set thousands of years in the future before the founding of a Galactic Empire
  9. The Currents of Space (1952) - second Empire Series novel, set thousands of years in the future during Trantor's unification of the galaxy into a Galactic Empire
  10. Pebble in the Sky (1950) - third Empire Series novel, primarily set thousands of years in the future on Earth, when the galaxy is unified into a Galactic Empire
  11. Prelude to Foundation (1988) - first Foundation Series novel
  12. Forward the Foundation (1993) - second Foundation Series novel
  13. Foundation (1951) - third Foundation Series novel
  14. Foundation and Empire (1952) - fourth Foundation Series novel
  15. Second Foundation (1953) - fifth Foundation Series novel
  16. Foundation's Edge (1982) - sixth Foundation Series novel
  17. Foundation and Earth (1986) - seventh Foundation Series novel
  18. The End of Eternity (1955) - a standalone novel, about Eternity, an organization "outside time" which aims to improve human happiness by altering history
Also another source of material to fill out the Foundation Apple series would be from Foundation's Friends if they really wanted extra stuff....not that they need it.
Is "The End of Eternity" in the same universe? It doesn't mention anything about it as far as I remember.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,347
59,255
Ottawa, ON
Now if someone out there had the vision and wanted to something really epic as a on-going series that would likely take a decade or more to play out would be to do all three series in order as Asimov created them to be in the same universe.

IIRC, technically he retconned Olivaw to be in the same universe as Foundation.
 

Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
16,737
3,101
Duesseldorf
What's funny about Asimov is that the stories were written so long ago that inevitably there are some cringe-worthy social commentary at times and behaviours that probably wouldn't fly in today's society.

So there will have to be some kind of modernization of his material.

One character I've always liked is Susan Calvin, who could be a terrific protagonist in our current age. She's probably the most well-developed and well-rounded individual in the Asimov universe. She appeared in the film I Robot but was a pale copy of the actual character.

Susan Calvin embraces robopsychology because of her own deep-seated psychological issues - caring and understanding robots in a manner that she never could with humanity.

"Liar!" and "Evidence / The Evitable Conflict" (both in Robot Visions and both featuring Susan Calvin) represent high points of managing to blend character and science fiction concepts. In general, I found Asimov to be great on ideas, and short on character.

IMO, Olivaw and Baley, despite their popularity, are showing their age as fairly one-dimensional Sherlock and Holmes archetypes.
Agreed on Calvin and Baley but I am unsure about Olivaw. If you take all the novels together and toss in Giskard, Baley and Seldon you see a nice development of the character
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,609
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The problem with the Foundation series is the original trilogy is so good, and all of the prequels/additional material he wrote later suck.

Same with his Robot novels. And then he tried to link them all together a la Heinlein.
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
59,361
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Ottawa
IMG_20200623_1103182.jpg
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
59,361
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Decided to check my library see which books I still had. Might be time to start reading them again, been a few years!
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,347
59,255
Ottawa, ON
If you haven't had a chance to read Robot Visions, I highly recommend it!

There may be some redundancy with some other anthologies.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,274
24,853
Montreal
I don't even know where to start here. The Foundation Trilogy might've been the very first big book I fell in love with. Read it as a teenager, then re-read the whole thing again in my 20s. Haven't touched it in 30 years. It's in my long term memory surrounded by the same gauzy romantic glow as my first girlfriend.

First question is why anyone would choose this source material in the first place. I'm shocked that a 70-year old story high on concept and low on character development would be considered, let alone get made. How many people still care about Isaac Asimov and are familiar with the trilogy? Honestly, I can't be objective, but it would be a pleasant surprise to learn that people under 50 would want to watch this.

Next thought is that they'd have to span the entire 1000 year (or whatever it was) timeline for the psychohistory premise to have its full dramatic impact. You can't possibly condense the arc into a single generation, at least not without radically re-writing the central idea of reshaping the future over a millennium. But if the series respects Hari Seldon's vision, it sacrifices main characters that carry the story from start to finish. Too many planets, periods and people to really dig deep on any of them, which is a built-in design flaw for a filmed series. How the hell are they going to pull this off? What a shame to wait this long for a dud.

Last thought: you don't hear the word, "interregnum" often, but on the rare occasion it's used I immediately flash back to The Foundation Trilogy.
 

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