Player Discussion Artyom Zub (D) [Page 4 Senators sign from KHL]

[SensFactor]

Well its not the term I wanted but Zub is here for at least next 2 years so lets be happy. The big contract is Captain Brady.

Garrioch: Sens will offer Tkachuk eight years for a 'significant amount of money'
Beaver Bruce says we going long term and big $$$

 

[playasRus]

2.5 x 4 = 10

MATH!!!

Ergo Chabot is underpaid by 2M

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Well its not the term I wanted but Zub is here for at least next 2 years so lets be happy. The big contract is Captain Brady.

Garrioch: Sens will offer Tkachuk eight years for a 'significant amount of money'
Beaver Bruce says we going long term and big $$$

They can say that because they know Brady will want (and get) and shorter term deal.

 

[playasRus]

I think you should start a thread about trading Chabot

It's like Sweatred's alternative ego, Sweatblack

True, but he appeared as more of a throw in at the time for a tweener stop gap. Kudos to Dorion if he actually banked on whatever changed this season and if that continues.

I agree, or at least I would have hoped not.

Have to take context and team outlook/plan into account too. When we dealt for Zaitsev, we easily slotted him into a top two pairing role with no RHD depth on the team whatsoever. We had him for the next 3-4 years of the tank, no upcoming prospect besides Jaros and De Melo leaving.

Now the team isn't MUCH better off, but we still have Zaitsev for RHD depth, we have JBD one year away from being a staple, we have Brannstrom vying to play on his offside, and the long shot Thomson. We can reassess in 2 years if we want to lock 4.5 mil into Zub then, rather than do so right away.

Two more years to develop JBD, Thomson, Brannstrom, Guennette. If none can unseat him, we put our hat in his pot for an extension at 4.5 M then.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Well its not the term I wanted but Zub is here for at least next 2 years so lets be happy. The big contract is Captain Brady.

Garrioch: Sens will offer Tkachuk eight years for a 'significant amount of money'
Beaver Bruce says we going long term and big $$$

Big risk, big reward. Could really help us or set us back.

I think if he takes the term they'll also offer him the "C".

We've never been shy about going for term with young players, just hesitant with guys over 27-28. I think Tkachuk has also been fairly committal to the team for term as well, so I don't think we'll get much argument over that issue.

Obviously AAV will be the focus of negotiations. He hasn't hit any big point totals, so I'm hoping we get him between 7-8M. I like the idea of getting this done before free agency really starts. Last thing we need is some offer sheet hanging over our heads.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

A counter point could be that they were willing to lock themselves in to Zaitsev for more than two years and Zub has arguably passed him on the depth chart at this point.

There's a huge difference in these situations. Zaitsev had negative value at the time but we got a big sweetener for taking him on. Moreover, if we didn't have ex-Toronto coach DJ here saying that he is better than he's shown, we likely don't make that trade at all.

With Zub, we've only seen him for half of a season directly. Zaitzev had three years of us playing against him and Dj coaching him.

I'm not going to factor in Zub's willingness to sign for longer because I have no idea how many years he wanted, it's possible he just wanted to get to FA for a bigger payday. But it's very clear that we took the risk free approach with this deal. At least if he turns out to be a one season wonder, we're not handcuffed by his deal in a period where we're trying to compete for a cup.

 

[saskriders]

I wanted more, but I'll take it.

 

[Hale The Villain]

And what if he doesn't want to sign a deal longer than 2 years?

I highly doubt Zub would pass up an extra 10-15M guaranteed by extending his contract by 2-3 years.

Dorion explained why he went 2 years for Zub. Said it lines up with JBD and Thomson being top 4 guys.

He may be right about JBD but he's kidding himself with Lassi. Plan is to replace Zub internally and let a 27YR old 2nd pairing D walk in 2 years.

It's a really stupid plan that is going to backfire when becomes obvious even to management that Lassi isn't what they think he is.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Up until 2019, Zub was a 24 year old journeyman KHL defenseman who was never drafted.

Lassi Thomson is a 20 year old 1st rounder in his draft+2 season who just put up 12 points in 30 AHL games on a bad AHL team. Not world-beating, but he isn't shitting the bed either

I'm not going to say Lassi will be better. Zub has, obviously taken some good steps over the last two years. That said, anyone saying Zub is better than Thomson ever will be is deluding themselves.

 

[Korpse]

I highly doubt Zub would pass up an extra 10-15M guaranteed by extending his contract by 2-3 years.

Dorion explained why he went 2 years for Zub. Said it lines up with JBD and Thomson being top 4 guys.

He may be right about JBD but he's kidding himself with Lassi. Plan is to replace Zub internally and let a 27YR old 2nd pairing D walk in 2 years.

It's a really stupid plan that is going to backfire when becomes obvious even to management that Lassi isn't what they think he is.

That's not to say the plan is to replace Zub with Thomson or JBD. Just that they will reevaluate where they are at that time.

 

[Sweatred]

These FA’s are a tweak away form a losing out on huge pay days. Zub just secured himself $5 million dollars and doesn’t have to worry about a training or freak injury.

 

[BondraTime]

I don’t think there is a chance, whatsoever, Thomson ever reaches the level that Zub was this year.

If he ever makes it as a full time 3rd pairing guy I’d be pleasantly surprised.

 

[SensFactor]

Big risk, big reward. Could really help us or set us back.

I think if he takes the term they'll also offer him the "C".

We've never been shy about going for term with young players, just hesitant with guys over 27-28. I think Tkachuk has also been fairly committal to the team for term as well, so I don't think we'll get much argument over that issue.

Obviously AAV will be the focus of negotiations. He hasn't hit any big point totals, so I'm hoping we get him between 7-8M. I like the idea of getting this done before free agency really starts. Last thing we need is some offer sheet hanging over our heads.

I agree. North of 8 mill is not good. $7.5 -$7.75 M is my guess for 7 years.

 

[Hale The Villain]

That's not to say the plan is to replace Zub with Thomson or JBD. Just that they will reevaluate where they are at that time.

Dorion seems to think Lassi will be playing at a top 4 level in 2 years. With Zaitsev being an "elite defender" and JBD also playing at a top 4 level, it's clear the plan is to move on from Zub in 2 years.

This plan is really stupid because Zub is still young and valuable and should not be allowed to walk for zero assets just because we have a couple prospects coming through the pipeline. It's also dumb because Lassi won't ever be Zub level or probably even JBD level.

Hopefully we re-sign Zub after Lassi almost certainly proves he's not capable of replacing him, but we'll have to pay him UFA money when we'll hopefully be contending, when we could have likely gotten a discount by taking a chance and offering him term now.

 

[Korpse]

Dorion seems to think Lassi will be playing at a top 4 level in 2 years. With Zaitsev being an "elite defender" and JBD also playing at a top 4 level, it's clear the plan is to move on from Zub in 2 years.

This plan is really stupid because Zub is still young and valuable and should not be allowed to walk for zero assets just because we have a couple prospects coming through the pipeline. It's also dumb because Lassi won't ever be Zub level or probably even JBD level.

Hopefully we re-sign Zub after Lassi almost certainly proves he's not capable of replacing him, but we'll have to pay him UFA money when we'll hopefully be contending, when we could have likely gotten a discount by taking a chance and offering him term now.

Nothing 2 years from now is clear.

 

[playasRus]

Nothing 2 years from now is clear.

Senators in 16-17 went from a young core of EK, Hoffman, Turris, Stone, Ryan, Brassard, Ceci and emerging Dzingel, Lazar, and Claesson going to game 7 of the ECF

to

Senators in 18-19 with a core of Stone, Duchene, Tierney, Dzingel and a new core of Chabot, Tkachuk, White, Balcers and Lajoie emerging. (minus EK, Hoffman, Turris, Brassard; Dzingel only young guy that made it)

to

Senators in 20-21 having White, Chabot and Tkachuk remaining and a new core of Batherson, Norris, Stutzel, and Formenton emerging. (minus Stone, Duchene, Dzingel; Chabot, Tkachuk, and White only young guys to make it)

Hard to say what happens in 2023-2024. Turn over every 2 years has been massive for Ottawa in the last half decade, even going back to pre EK times with Spezza/Heatley/Fisher/Vermette losses.

You could argue a little stability would be nice considering all of our turn over but I'll say Zub has shown what he has and having him for two more years at a discount is a good move that can't hurt the team the way having him at 4.5 mil in 3 years might.

 

[SensFactor]

I wanted more, but I'll take it.

That's what she said.

*sorry I had to

 

[PlayOn]

I would’ve liked 4 years, but I can somewhat understand the logic.

If JBD and Lassi progress as expected, you can evaluate whether it’s worth it to allocate more cap on Zub.

If one or both don’t, the Sens presumably will have to pay someone to be in their top 4, so as long as Zub is willing to stay, they’ll offer him market value to keep him.

In an ideal world, we lock him up and make a trade later if need be - but these are the decisions I expect we’ll need to get used to given Melnyk is still our owner.

I think the Sens will be bridging almost anyone that’s not star/elite calibre - it’s probably the less risky strategy but we’ll also lose some players along the way. If we keep drafting so well, it’s not the worst plan in the world.

 

[Puikiou]

I don’t think there is a chance, whatsoever, Thomson ever reaches the level that Zub was this year.

If he ever makes it as a full time 3rd pairing guy I’d be pleasantly surprised.

Discounting a 20 years old defenseman that looked fantastic early on, struggled mightily, but now is improving again. Bold.
- signed, a not so great Lassi Thomson fan.

The Sens signed Artem Zub for 2.5M. After that, if he's willing to stay in Ottawa, he can extend for the 3.5-4.5M he would have gotten on a long term deal now. Terrific contract.
- signed, a not so great Pierre Dorion fan.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Last 20 games (April 1st until the end of the season)
Zaitsev = 23:20
A. Zub = 19:46

End of argument. He didn't come close.

If you're basing it solely on TOI, sure, although those numbers look pretty close to the point I wouldn't call it "end of argument".

I see it as Zub carried his own pairing for most of the year that almost instantly stabilized the D while Zaitsev plays primarily with our one D man who is exponentially better than the next best, whoever that is, and he plays a ton, thus his partner does also.

Don't get me wrong, Zaitsev has been pretty good this year, but if I'm choosing one of the 2 to go forward with, I choose Zub.