Rumor: Arthur Staple: Isles Remain Front-Runner for Tavares | Other teams still in mix

[bbskiff]

View media item 2401

 

[LAKings88]

I think Toronto IS JT's first choice. I am not sure the Leafs will do it though.
And leave the Leafs D alone. Anyone think LA has a better team than the Leafs now or going forward? Of course not. And they have Doughty. LA is not looking good at all.

With JT they look damn good.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You seem to care an awful lot what fans of other teams think about the Maple Leafs.

Who gives a damn what they think? The Leafs can clearly afford to keep those three forwards and go out and get a solid, minute eating first pairing defenseman and pay him too. So who gives a damn what anyone else thinks about that?

I don't know how I'm going to explain this so I'm going to try one last time. You said the following.

If Dubas committed $11 million in additional cap money to upgrade their offence - which doesn't need upgrading - leaving him no money to bring in some defenders, he would be seriously jeopardizing the Leafs window.

I don't understand why Leaf fans want Tavares. This isn't a hockey pool. It's an actual hockey team. Goal scoring and offensive production is not the Leafs weakness, it's their strength.

The way I see it if the Leafs in your opinion could not afford Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares if he signs with them, how could they afford to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and one of Doughty or Karlsson if either one signed in Toronto and Tavares does not.

I honestly don't care what fans of other teams think about the Maple Leafs. I'm just trying to understand your logic?

 

[Belieber]

Great asset management would be to sign Tavares for nothing but cash and cap space then trade Nylander or Marner for a young stud DMan. Plenty of wingers on the farm, that’s the best way to fill the defense need while keeping the offense great. Best path to the cup IMO, why wait a year for a chance to sign one of 2 d-men that can get an extra year from their own teams.

 

[Doyoulikeapples*]

If you are badly managed, you go out and sign a forward when you don't need one and ignore the actual holes in your lineup.

The Maple Leafs, right now, are not badly managed and they won't do something this stupid.

Under no circumstances is signing John Tavares stupid. That’s comical

 

[BMOK33]

Under no circumstances is signing John Tavares stupid. That’s comical

Tampa signing him would be pretty close to it. I’ve seen that idea thrown around more than a few times.

 

[Regal]

I don't know how I'm going to explain this so I'm going to try one last time. You said the following.



The way I see it if the Leafs in your opinion could not afford Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares if he signs with them, how could they afford to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and one of Doughty or Karlsson if either one signed in Toronto and Tavares does not.

I honestly don't care what fans of other teams think about the Maple Leafs. I'm just trying to understand your logic?

He's not arguing they can't afford all of them, he's arguing it's a poor use of cap to invest that much in 4 forwards. If you read all his posts on the last page he clarifies it's about not being able to afford them and upgrade the defense. I would agree with him in general, but I think one of Nylander or Marner (likely Nylander), would be moved if Tavares were to sign

 

[Regal]

If you are badly managed, you go out and sign a forward when you don't need one and ignore the actual holes in your lineup.

The Maple Leafs, right now, are not badly managed and they won't do something this stupid.

You're assuming a Tavares signing wouldn't result in other changes. Getting a player of his quality without giving up assets is never stupid. Filling the holes they do have would require assets, which is likely going to hurt their already potent offense, and they're likely going to lose JVR and Bozak this off season as well. Signing Tavares would give the opportunity to trade someone like Nylander for a young dman without hurting the forwards. Signing Doughty or Karlsson the following year would be better but you don't turn down Tavares if he's willing to sign a reasonable deal to take that chance.

 

[LeafFever]

There is no way the Leafs are getting Doughty or Karlsson without making a trade. Neither the Kings or Sens are going to let either of these two guys walk for nothing. It will cost the Leafs Marner or Nylander in a trade to get one of these defensemen.

What if they don't sign an extension before they become UFA? Then you can get them for cash only.

 

[LeafFever]

Was never actually established if that is possible since the Leafs ended up not doing so.

It was confirmed by Mirtle.

 

[LeafFever]

Great asset management would be to sign Tavares for nothing but cash and cap space then trade Nylander or Marner for a young stud DMan. Plenty of wingers on the farm, that’s the best way to fill the defense need while keeping the offense great. Best path to the cup IMO, why wait a year for a chance to sign one of 2 d-men that can get an extra year from their own teams.

Yeah, the Tavares signing does make one expendable. They could also trade Kadri, who has fantastic value right bow.

 

[Nizdizzle]

If you are badly managed, you go out and sign a forward when you don't need one and ignore the actual holes in your lineup.

The Maple Leafs, right now, are not badly managed and they won't do something this stupid.

If you can add a player like Tavares without losing any assets, it frees you up to trade lesser players (than JT) to patch up other holes. Leafs don't have to repair the defense with star players. They just need to add two solid NHL-calibre players to the right side, no home runs required.

 

[rent free]

I guess GF doesn't mean the Offense is good either. Just go away. This is getting stupid

That's quite a ridiculous statement. Goalies are the ones that prevent goals, not defenders. The skaters are the ones that score them.

 

[93gilmour93]

Not if they want to address their defense though, that's the point.

They can do both. Addressing the D doesn't mean you have to get Doughty/Karlsson

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't know how I'm going to explain this so I'm going to try one last time. You said the following.



The way I see it if the Leafs in your opinion could not afford Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares if he signs with them, how could they afford to keep Matthews, Marner, Nylander and one of Doughty or Karlsson if either one signed in Toronto and Tavares does not.

I honestly don't care what fans of other teams think about the Maple Leafs. I'm just trying to understand your logic?

The Leafs defense is not good.

It's not good enough to win a championship.

Even if every Leaf fans dreams come true and Dermott is a top four defender and Liljegren steps in, this defense still needs to bring in a significant addition on the blueline because right now, it is a serious achiles heel. In order to do that, they need to ear mark a fairly significant piece of the cap to pay that player. If they spend $11 million to bring in a forward that they current do not need who does not address a weakness on their roster, there is no way at all they can add a $7 million + defender. The math just doesn't work.

So, to recap, I'm not saying the couldn't afford to add Tavares. I'm saying they couldn't afford to add Tavares and still have the money required to address their blueline, which is an actual problem.

 

[Kelly]

I just read this page alone and 17 posts are from leaf fans

MUHHHH. LEAFSSSSSS!!!!!!

I just read this page and 18 of them are people whining about Leaf fans

 

[FerrisRox]

Yeah, the Tavares signing does make one expendable. They could also trade Kadri, who has fantastic value right bow.

Signing an $11 million center in order to trade away a $4.5 million center to acquire an $8 million defenseman is improbable and illogical.

Again, I don't think Dubas is nearly stupid enough to do any of this. There are Leaf fans that think running a hockey team is like drafting a hockey pool and they get all excited about adding "a name" and adding more offence.

I would be shocked if Kyle Dubas thought this way. It's about building a team, not about assembling all-star names.

This is the kind of logic, in the past, that led to the Maple Leafs acquiring Brian Leetch at the deadline. Sure, Brian Leetch was a good player, but on the day the Leafs made that trade they had the highest scoring offence in the league, but were porous defensively. Leetch did nothing to help their issues and became a (highly skilled) redundancy on their blueline.

To no one's surprise (except perhaps these "hockey pool" oriented Leaf fans) the Leafs fizzled out in the second round, in large part because they had difficultly scoring goals because they were forced to use a smothering defensive system to compensate for their blue lines lack of defensive skill.

I don't think Dubas will be chasing names, he'll be building a team, and this team needs help on the blueline, not up front.

 

[93gilmour93]

The Leafs defense is not good.

It's not good enough to win a championship.

Even if every Leaf fans dreams come true and Dermott is a top four defender and Liljegren steps in, this defense still needs to bring in a significant addition on the blueline because right now, it is a serious achiles heel. In order to do that, they need to ear mark a fairly significant piece of the cap to pay that player. If they spend $11 million to bring in a forward that they current do not need who does not address a weakness on their roster, there is no way at all they can add a $7 million + defender. The math just doesn't work.

So, to recap, I'm not saying the couldn't afford to add Tavares. I'm saying they couldn't afford to add Tavares and still have the money required to address their blueline, which is an actual problem.

What's an example of what the leafs could do at D? Take out OEL,Doughty and John Carlson because I expect all 3 to resign with their teams and Erik Karlsson would never be traded to Toronto.

 

[FerrisRox]

They can do both. Addressing the D doesn't mean you have to get Doughty/Karlsson

They cannot to both. How much money will they have earmarked to bring in a top pair defender in your scenario?

 

[93gilmour93]

They cannot to both. How much money will they have earmarked to bring in a top pair defender in your scenario?

And who is this top pair D man that's avalible? The leafs need a couple of stay at home solid D men. Those type of D men don't cost 8-9 million a year. In the next 1-2 year Hainsey,Gardiner and Marleau come off the books and the cap will keep rising so the leafs absolutely can make changes to the d men

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Doesn't this happen every year where a top free agent is thinking of testing the market and then he is rumored to be interested in toronto and then he re-signs with his original team?

It's like a bad case of deja vu around these boards, sometimes.

 

[FerrisRox]

What's an example of what the leafs could do at D? Take out OEL,Doughty and John Carlson because I expect all 3 to resign with their teams and Erik Karlsson would never be traded to Toronto.

I can't begin to pretend I know what options are available to them right now, but I'm not sure what the point of it would be anyway.

The need to upgrade their defense in a fairly significant matter (IMO) to take the step to being a contender. I'm certain the front office is a acutely aware of this and I'm sure they don't think the answer lies within the organization. I think Dubas has earmarked money for that solution and I suspect he will be patient and wait for an opportunity to present itself. The Leafs have the system that you need to make that kind of transactions and I find it extremely unlikely that they would compromise that opportunity by eating up a large portion of their cap space to bring in a player that doesn't address a need on their roster.

It would be illogical and self-defeating and everything I've read and heard about Kyle Dubas suggests the opposite that he is calm and calculating and cautious.

But there's no point in arguing this. If there are Leaf fans here that think signing John Tavares is a smart move and a clever way to use their cap space and build their team, let's agree to disagree, but I would be absolutely stunned if Kyle Dubas thought this, and if that were something he actually went out and did, as someone that would like to see these Leafs core win a Cup, I'd be pretty let down because I think that he would be crippling those chances and showing that he's not the right guy to get them there.

 

[Morbo]

They cannot to both. How much money will they have earmarked to bring in a top pair defender in your scenario?

who is this top pair defender exactly? Are you not aware that the Leafs have been looking for a defenceman for a long time now? There is obviously no deal out there or they would have done it.

Doughty and Karlsson are not going to be Maple Leafs. There is no huge money defenceman coming to Toronto for the forseeable future(I don't see Dubas paying 8+ million for John Carlson as a free agent).

Also, you don't seem to be aware of how poor the Leafs centre depth is. Sure, they're in good shape at wing, but past Matthews and Kadri they have basically nothing. Adding a top centre would not be a "redundancy".

 

[93gilmour93]

I can't begin to pretend I know what options are available to them right now, but I'm not sure what the point of it would be anyway.

The need to upgrade their defense in a fairly significant matter (IMO) to take the step to being a contender. I'm certain the front office is a acutely aware of this and I'm sure they don't think the answer lies within the organization. I think Dubas has earmarked money for that solution and I suspect he will be patient and wait for an opportunity to present itself. The Leafs have the system that you need to make that kind of transactions and I find it extremely unlikely that they would compromise that opportunity by eating up a large portion of their cap space to bring in a player that doesn't address a need on their roster.

It would be illogical and self-defeating and everything I've read and heard about Kyle Dubas suggests the opposite that he is calm and calculating and cautious.

But there's no point in arguing this. If there are Leaf fans here that think signing John Tavares is a smart move and a clever way to use their cap space and build their team, let's agree to disagree, but I would be absolutely stunned if Kyle Dubas thought this, and if that were something he actually went out and did, as someone that would like to see these Leafs core win a Cup, I'd be pretty let down because I think that he would be crippling those chances and showing that he's not the right guy to get them there.

So let's say the opportunity for that type of d man doesn't come for 3 years. Your saying the leafs should keep open cap space for three years incase a d man chose the leafs over 30 other teams. Ridiculous. If you have a chance at an elite player for nothing more then money you do it....

 

[93gilmour93]

who is this top pair defender exactly? Are you not aware that the Leafs have been looking for a defenceman for a long time now? There is obviously no deal out there or they would have done it.

Doughty and Karlsson are not going to be Maple Leafs. There is no huge money defenceman coming to Toronto for the forseeable future(I don't see Dubas paying 8+ million for John Carlson as a free agent).

Also, you don't seem to be aware of how poor the Leafs centre depth is. Sure, they're in good shape at wing, but past Matthews and Kadri they have basically nothing. Adding a top centre would not be a "redundancy".

Your 100% right on the center depth in Toronto and that problem is addressed for years to come with a 3 headed monster of Tavares Matthews and Kadri