News Article: Artemi Panarin speaks on potential salary cuts

[nyr2k2]

THN did an article on this a few years ago. They said agent fees were 3-6%. Estimated ~$240K take-home on a $1M salary. Of course that includes the escrow, of which players almost always get something back. Also based on Canadian dollars and taxes.

How much does an NHL player take home on a $1 million salary? Not as much you think - TheHockeyNews

I think Avery is generally full of shit.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

THN did an article on this a few years ago. They said agent fees were 3-6%. Estimated ~$240K take-home on a $1M salary. Of course that includes the escrow, of which players almost always get something back. Also based on Canadian dollars and taxes.

How much does an NHL player take home on a $1 million salary? Not as much you think - TheHockeyNews

I think Avery is generally full of shit.

So my calculation was closer than Avery's

 

[NYSPORTS]

No sympathy for the owners here. They are much wealthier than the players, and in the Rangers' case they are especially lucrative. They should pay players their full salaries next season.

companies with wealthy CEO’s and owners don’t.

 

[SA16]

THN did an article on this a few years ago. They said agent fees were 3-6%. Estimated ~$240K take-home on a $1M salary. Of course that includes the escrow, of which players almost always get something back. Also based on Canadian dollars and taxes.

How much does an NHL player take home on a $1 million salary? Not as much you think - TheHockeyNews

I think Avery is generally full of shit.

Agent fees can not be nearly as high as Avery makes them out to be else nobody would hire an agent. Nick Backstrom just got himself 5-46 self negotiated.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Agent fees can not be nearly as high as Avery makes them out to be else nobody would hire an agent. Nick Backstrom just got himself 5-46 self negotiated.

Doughty negotiated himself, and potentially screwed himself out of 50m

 

[nyr2k2]

Here's another article from a CPA that runs a business catered to athletes and celebrities. Says an NHL player making a salary of $2M would probably bring home $795K. Depending on the year, the escrow, etc.

How Much NHL Players Really Make | Anders CPA

Avery is full of shit.

 

[SA16]

Doughty negotiated himself, and potentially screwed himself out of 50m

He negotiated for himself the 3rd highest AAV of any dman at the time and that was on a contract that included 4 RFA years. He then signed a contract making him the highest paid dman in the league (until Karlsson passed him). I am not seeing how he lost anywhere near 50M. Even if he signed a bridge deal off his first deal it wouldn't be even close to that as he'd earn less money on the back end of his current deal (which he wouldn't get). In fact I'm pretty sure he would have made less money if he signed short term I can calculate it roughly.

Edit: Math:

Through Doughty's first two contracts his total gross salary is 144M. That spans 16 years.

If instead of signing 8-56 he just took a 3 year bridge at 3-19.5 (which is the amount he earned on his real deal) he would then have one year of RFA in 2014-15. I will assume he signs 8-80 which would be the largest contract in the league (Subban leader at AAV for 9M and signed that offseason and Ovechkin total at 9.5.). Through 11 years then he will have earned 99.5M and would be a UFA after the 2021-2022 season. There were already reports about his play declining this year and he still would have 2 more years on his deal before becoming a UFA. If this trend continues and his play declines over the next 2 years he would have become a UFA at age 33 needing to recoup 5-50 to match his current deal. That seems questionable.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He negotiated for himself the 3rd highest AAV of any dman at the time and that was on a contract that included 4 RFA years. He then (with an agent) signed a contract making him the highest paid dman in the league (until Karlsson passed him). I am not seeing how he lost anywhere near 50M. Even if he signed a bridge deal off his first deal it wouldn't be even close to that as he'd earn less money on the back end of his current deal (which he wouldn't get). In fact I'm pretty sure he would have made less money if he signed short term I can calculate it roughly.

His current contract, he negotiated himself. And it's 75% base salary. That's very risky with a potential lockout in 2 years. He will lose 51m dollars if there is a lock out, instead of doing what Carey Price did, and Nicklas Bäckström did, by having it be mostly signing bonuses (guaranteed money in the case of a lock out)

Guaranteed money if there is a lockout:

Doughty: 4m out of 55m
Panarin: 37.5m out of 41.5m
Karlsson: 24.25m out of 31.5m
Bäckström: 14m out of 24m

 

[SA16]

His current contract, he negotiated himself. And it's 75% base salary. That's very risky with a potential lockout in 2 years. He will lose 51m dollars if there is a lock out, instead of doing what Carey Price did, and Nicklas Bäckström did, by having it be mostly signing bonuses (guaranteed money in the case of a lock out)

Not sure how you come up with 51M considering in the potential lockout year he has a base of 7M and bonus of 4M but you should also consider the lack of bonuses appears to be a Kings policy and not a Doughty thing. Kopitar has basically no bonuses. Brown basically no bonuses. Gaborik a total of 1M in bonuses over 7 years. Muzzin no bonuses at all. Martinez no bonuses at all. Quick no bonuses at all. In fact, Doughty was the only player on the entire team this year to have a signing bonus over 1M. The only non-Doughty King I see in recent years to get basically any significant bonuses was Kovalchuk which was in a spot where they were competing to bring him in.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not sure how you come up with 51M considering in the potential lockout year he has a base of 7M and bonus of 4M but you should also consider the lack of bonuses appears to be a Kings policy and not a Doughty thing. Kopitar has basically no bonuses. Brown basically no bonuses. Quick no bonuses at all. In fact, Doughty was the only player on the entire team this year to have a signing bonus over 1M.

Guaranteed money if there is a lockout:

Doughty: 4m out of 55m
Panarin: 37.5m out of 41.5m
Karlsson: 24.25m out of 31.5m
Bäckström: 14m out of 24m

Doughty gets 4m in 2022 as a signing bonus, and 0 after that, and the 51m total base salary for the remaining years doesn't have to be paid out in case of a lock out

Base salary after 2022 (end of the current CBA):
2022-23: 7m
2023-24: 11m
2024-25: 11m
2025-26: 11m
2026-27: 11m

 

[SA16]

Guaranteed money if there is a lockout:

Doughty: 4m out of 55m
Panarin: 37.5m out of 41.5m
Karlsson: 24.25m out of 31.5m
Bäckström: 14m out of 24m

Doughty gets 4m in 2022 as a signing bonus, and 0 after that, and the 51m total base salary for the remaining years won't be paid out in case of a lock out

So you're assuming if there is a lock out it lasts....forever? And not just the one year?

Also as I showed above I don't know how you can blame Doughty for not getting bonuses when the Kings history is that they do not give out significant signing bonuses ever.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So you're assuming if there is a lock out it lasts....forever? And not just the one year?

Also as I showed above I don't know how you can blame Doughty for not getting bonuses when the King's history is that they do not give out significant signing bonuses ever.

I said "Potentially". Good night.

Doughty negotiated himself, and potentially screwed himself out of 50m

 

[nyr2k2]

Guaranteed money if there is a lockout:

Doughty: 4m out of 55m
Panarin: 37.5m out of 41.5m
Karlsson: 24.25m out of 31.5m
Bäckström: 14m out of 24m

Doughty gets 4m in 2022 as a signing bonus, and 0 after that, and the 51m total base salary for the remaining years doesn't have to be paid out in case of a lock out

Base salary after 2022 (end of the current CBA):
2022-23: 7m
2023-24: 11m
2024-25: 11m
2025-26: 11m
2026-27: 11m

Yeah he won't be paid his salary during the lockout, but once the lockout ends his contract his still valid. The contract isn't invalidated in the event of a lockout. His remaining money is still owed.

 

[SA16]

I said "Potentially". Good night.

Sure potentially in an entirely unrealistic scenario where the lockout lasts 5 years Doughty will not get paid. In reality he potentially lost 6M because the chance the lockout lasts longer than one year is essentially zero (and the chance it lasts one year is negligible) so it's him having 4M bonus/7M salary vs 10M bonus/1M salary. In addition if we assume 5% agent fees on the contract (about what @nyr2k2 posted above from his research) that would be 4.4M which almost entirely negates this difference. Not to mention if your potential scenario plays out none of the players will get paid because it will have meant the league folded.


But of course there are two sides to the negotiation and the other side is a side that hasn't given out signing bonuses to any of their players and certainly is aware of this lockout potential and likely would not want to give a huge bonus in that year anyway.

Doughty's contract structure is undoubtedly bad. It's not front loaded and the bonuses are minimal but I really do not see how you can blame the player for the contract when the 8 contracts LAK have signed since 2010 that were 5+ years in length and at least 3M AAV which total 350M in salary contain a total of 23M in bonuses (18M being Kopitar's first two years) .

Also your numbers are wrong. In the span of a multi-year lockout the only signing bonus that would be paid would be the bonus in Year 1 since that would be paid prior to the start of the lockout. The Rangers would not write Panarin a ~10M check every 7/1 while the league is locked out and there is no CBA. He would get his 11.5M for 2022-23 and that's it.

 

[wolfgaze]

According to my calculations, and based on the percentages Avery mentions in regards to escrow and agent/mgmt fees and income tax, Sean Avery's take home pay in his first season was $141,633.

$171,036 in the NHL, $8,571 in the AHL. And that is based on a $275,000 NHL base salary (2-way) and $125,00 signing bonus. Assuming he did not spend anything at all, that puts his total earnings in the first 3 NHL/AHL seasons at max ~$420,000

The thing he, he made that claim generally and across the board... Not just about what players are making in the first or early years of their career.... Avery was making $4 mil per season off his Dallas contract right? So with Avery's numbers/percentages, he's saying his take home pay on a $4 mil contract would only be around $200,000 yearly.... Do you believe that? Does that seem plausible to you? (Asking honestly)...