Player Discussion Artemi Panarin: Part II

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Fugazy, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. True Blue Registered User

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    Really? Because this certainly reads like the "anyone" can do it argument. Unless "anyone" and "easily replaced with little drop off" are completely different.

    Every time they say "Oh Kunitz was a perfect fit with Crosby" and such well the exact same thing has happened year after year whether it's him, Sheary, Simon or any other guy. These guys are all fill ins with a superstar and can be replaced easily by someone else with little drop off

    Oh, and inserting Haley is just as much of a straw man here, if not more.

    Are you equating one of the biggest stars of the league and a true generational player with Panarin?
    What are you asking me? Do I want to resign Strome for $5m or do I believe that any ole' UFA signed for $2.5 will have the same effect as Strome?

    The answer is, yes, term dependent, I would resign Strome for $5m. And no, I do not believe that anyone else that we sign for $2.5 will probably be just as effective.

    When he was scoring last year, it was dismissed out of hand as having an abnormally high shooting percentage. A stat that completley ignores many factors (ice time, PP time, linemates, player growth, etc.). This year, before Panrin, it was the percentage again. Then, when being paired with Panarin, it went to "It's Panarin. Anyone can make those passes to him". Fact is that Strome is a former top-5 pick who has done nothing but produce since he got here. I am not claiming that he is some sort of 70 point player, but at some point you cannot simply keep making excuses for production and laugh Strome off.
     
  2. Filthy Dangles .

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    Good points. That's not to mention Sidney Crosby has a legitimate beef as the 4th or 5th greatest forward to ever play the game of hockey. As much as we love Panarin, he's not Crosby either and we haven't seen him elevate linemates to the degree Sid has over his career.
     
  3. Off Sides Registered User

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    If it were me I would offer Strome a 2 year deal. His contract would end the same off-season as Chytil, Howden, and some others.

    What he does, and what the rest of them do, in those two years determines if they extend him or not.

    If he will not sign for two, I guess I offer a one year at about what he'd get in arbitration anyway.

    To me he seems like the type of player where he is not going to get better, so I'm not sure I see the reward in locking him up long term, he is probably going to get about the same amount for his UFA years whether they buy them now or later.
     
  4. McRanger Registered User Sponsor

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    Haley succeeding literally means anyone can succeed.

    Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis, et al succeeding literally means that you need to have at least moderate offensive ability to succeed.

    One is a straw man argument. One is not.


    I am equating his production to one of the biggest stars of the league and a true generational player because he is on pace to out-produce the best season of one of biggest stars of the league and a true generational player.

    That is how good Panarin has been this season. And that is how outrageous his production has been. He is on pace for 122 points.

    If you have a problem with the comparison, you can take it up with math.

    1) Strome's extension likely STARTS at 5m, unless he takes a huge discount or he stops producing.

    2) Stromes likely replacement would be Chytil, who will probably sign for half of what Strome signs for. Or are we planning on keeping Chytil at 3C forever?

    3) Replacing priced out players with cheaper versions (usually younger players on ELCs or their first extension) is how it works in a cap world. Why are you acting like this shocking?


    Yes I am sure his shooting percentage was one of the highest of the entire 21st century because he grew as a player.

    Anyway, even if you disregard his Oilers start he was on an 82 game pace for 23 goals, 20 assists and 43 points last year, and he had 4 assists and zero goals in 7 games before getting put with Panarin, so saying he has "done nothing but produce" is being extremely generous.

    He has 18 goals and 16 assists for 34 points in 70 games without Panarin.
    He has 12 goals and 26 assists for 38 points in 38 games with Panarin.

    That is a rather large difference in production.

    I mean, that is fine production for someone making 3m a year. Not great production, especially if that player is not good defensively, but not awful. But that is also pretty horrific "when are we buying this guy out" production for someone making 5m-6m a year.

    Again, I get the pro-Strome argument. What I don't get is how the anti-Strome argument can be laughed off. Signing a guy to a large and long term contract just to play with one guy is a potentially dangerous move. I'd be shocked if Gorton and co. don't have the same fears.
     
  5. ohbaby Registered User

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    There are many occasions when this seemingly logical thinking didn't pan out. And they have been cited in this thread. There was the time we landed Gomez and Drury, and wondered who would play with Jagr. Turns out neither played well with him. This happens all the time in hockey. So I'm not sure why you think it is a given when we have seen it many times in history.
    Yes Panarin and Fast are good defensively. And I will not argue who is better. They are all good. But you don't put someone who isn't sound defensively on the PK. Does Quinn not have choices? Panarin is not playing the PK, so Quinn does have choices. The eye test is sometimes a good measure, but sometimes you have to use your brain too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  6. ohbaby Registered User

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    I like this.

    I too had my doubts if Strome was just an aberration. But it seems it might be just a case of him turning a corner. This is the most ice time he has ever had, and playing in all situations. This never was the case before. Plus he is now 26, entering his prime. So it could be, what you see is what you get.

    Plus I went over Panarin's time with Kane. Wondering if they enhanced each others play. And I don't see it. Kane had 110 pts after Panarin left. Toews also had his best year after Panarin was gone. And Panarin has scored about the same (PPG) in the last 4 years. So this leads me to believe there is some real chemistry with him and Strome. Well at least some chemistry. Cause they are both hitting their prime. Panarin said after last game, he hasn't done anything different from previous years. Just been playing the same way, when asked why he's having his best year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  7. ohbaby Registered User

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    One thing bothers me. How come CBJ are ahead of us in the standings? They lose their star player this year, plus Atkinson is out with an injury and have won 6 out of their last 8, beating Boston twice! Their second string goalie just shutout BOS in their last game for his second consecutive shutout. WTH!

    We have to start putting some wins together. I want to see 5 high leg kicks tomorrow! LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  8. Cassano rent free

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    Seth Jones being a top 5 defender will ensure they never drop back into the lottery as long as he's healthy.
     
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  9. ohbaby Registered User

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    We play them Sunday at MSG. It will be the second game of a back to back for CBJ. 3rd in 4 days. We should roll over them. Just need to survive the brawl on the Island first. We need to beat these teams ahead of us.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  10. ReznorIsGod 100 point 2C

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    Torts is a a really good coach, and they have a really good blueline.
     
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  11. ohbaby Registered User

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    I miss his postgame press conferences. LOL

    Him smacking down Larry Brooks was better than the game highlights.
     
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  12. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    Only eclipsed by Dan Boyle calling Brett Cyrgalis and Larry Brooks "clowns" during his final locker room interview haha
     
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  13. ohbaby Registered User

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    Ahh the memories...

     
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  14. ohbaby Registered User

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    Only one point for the Franchise (Too early to call him that) last night. It wasn't his best game, turned it over a few times, more than most nights, but his presence on the ice demands so much respect, our other lines have less pressure on them, and better match ups.

    Come Sunday against his former team at the Garden,... with CBJ playing their second game of a back to back, 3rd in 4 days,.... expect a huge performance from the Breadman.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  15. 6zag Registered User

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    Just wanted to ask if anyone realized that Panarin has the highest shootout goal percentage in the league? (among active players who have taken at least 10 shots) 59.1% 22 Shots 13 Goals.

    Nothing majorly important, but thought it was a nice thing to know.
     
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  16. Synergy27 I only like it when it's dimed out.

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    So, uh, he's scratched tonight. Upper body injury? What's the deal?
     
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  17. egelband Registered User Sponsor

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    Yeah. Was wondering the same. I really hope they’re just fishing for a reason for him to skip the ASG.
     
  18. Alluckks Registered User

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    Pretty sure he got it in the Islander game; they were targeting him pretty hard, and not just by shadowing him
     
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  19. Edge Kris King's Ghost

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    Dear Lawd Baby Jebus,

    We thank ya for this wonder smorgasbord of topics and opinions on HF Boards, or as long-timers call it, Our Frozen Groundhog's Day Experience.

    Thank ya for all the insight, some of it logical and some of it crazy.

    Thank ya for the mods, they doin' your work and all.

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    We kindly ask that the word concussion don't pop up and derail this thread for the next 15 pages. I ain't got it in me this time around.

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  20. jas Unsatisfied

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  21. True Blue Registered User

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    That’s in. Yet another concussion cover up
     
  22. Bread4Life Registered User

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    70 points right now.

    And it is his fifth 70+ points season in a row

    2015-2016 - 77 pts
    2016-2017 - 74 pts
    2017-2018 - 82 pts
    2018-2019 - 87 pts
    2019-2020 - 70 pts at February 1st
     
  23. ecemleafs Registered User

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    Progressing upwards. Prob finish with 120 this year. If he continues his rate of progression we could be looking at 150 next year.
     
  24. dangsLITE Registered User

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    In no way am I saying that Panarin is as good as Crosby BUT he is does have a slightly more creative playing style.. of course Crosby makes many plays that no one else would see, but I do think he has more predictability to some extent at least.

    I think to play with Panarin you really need to be on your toes and think the game at a fairly high level. Of course, he can make a player look great at any given moment but to play well with him night after night is not something anyone could do. I'm not sure what Strome is worth tbh, and while others will be great with Panarin, the guy deserves some credit for keeping up with him... he's showing very good hockey IQ imo even if he is producing above what he should w his overall skillset bc of Panarin.
     
  25. CasusBelli Registered User

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    He is MSL in his prime. Good news is that MSL had a very long “prime.” Hopefully Artemi Will too.
     
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