OT: Around the NHL

[Gurglesons]

I’m sure DeBoner is a big part of the problem, and I’m not looking up stats, but hasn’t Stone, Max, and to some extent Stastny had difficulty scoring in the playoffs during their careers? How much is Stone getting paid to pound on his chest and wear a mean mug? Karlsson had that huge first season but has been in decline mode ever since that. It seems like as soon as they face a team that can play good defense, it’s over.

They need an elite forward. They are Isles West.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They need an elite forward. They are Isles West.

The thing is, their cap structure is such shit, they can't even afford to go any sort of game hunting during free agency. I think VGK will look at shedding some salary to go after Vatanen for sure, but also blokes like Hoffman (see if Stone's ties to him can help likely) and if they somehow massively drop 2-3 big contracts (they need to drop 2 just to look at Vats and Hoff) they can maybe even kick the tires of the Hall sweepstakes.

That would mean they would need to move...

Reilly Smith - 5m cap hit, 2yrs left and 29yrs old, less term easier to move. (MNTC - 8 teams)
Paul Stastny - 6.5m 1yr left, still has some juice in the tank, but not worth his contract, if anything he's a bloke a team might take to get to the cap floor while taking a sweetener. (MNTC - 10 teams)
Brayden McNabb - 2.5m for 2yrs, a decent 3rd pair, ok 2nd pair if you get him the right partner, doesn't break the bank.
To start...

Total of that is 14m, 18m~ to play with and sign some RFA's. That's if they don't find a way to move Fleury and then sign Lehner to a 2yr deal (I doubt they give him much term, maybe 3yrs max).

Btw @Ginormousthumbs

Mark Stone had 6 goals in 7 games last year (12pts) and Patches had 11pts, 5 of them goals in last year's playoffs in which they lasted for 7 games. So it's not that. It's literally Pete Deboer and his shitty offense stifling coaching system. It's why I will never understand why they panicked by firing Gallant (a bloke that could very realistically end up in Washington, barf).

Stastny isn't a scorer, but he had 8pts in 7 games last year, 2 goals. So yeah, I will always maintain, that VGK squad only scores in bursts because it still remembers GG's system and at times, scores in bunches because of it, but when Pete has his boring ass hooks really sunk in, they look like the way they have so far, vs the Stars.

Their GM did them absolutely zero favors on GG's defense, they got Martinez after GG was fired and even that wasn't enough.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I was hoping for the Avs... Then shifted onto Vegas. Was liking the Islanders until they met Tampa.

Exactly the same for me. Somehow I've forgiven the Isles for '93, and I really don't hate anyone on their squad. They're going to lose, but they are on the rise, good for Trotz. Barzal is a delight to watch, definitely top five on my list. Tampa just doesn't do it for me, though I think a Bolts/Stars matchup is a tossup. Bad ass forwards vs a killer blue line.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Looks like TB’s year.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Vegas' issue isn't Reaves doing his thing. It's that their stars can't score for shit. You can't boast a bunch of blokes that can score all season long and then the playoffs start and suddenly Patches, Stone, Tuch, Karlsson, Stastny, Marches Sault, and others can't even score.

Dallas is getting it's depth showing up. While Vegas' isn't.

But hurr durr that one 4th liner we also had on the Pens we gotta act like he's the difference maker and why they're losing!

Meanwhile we were shit with him and even worse after him and neither years had anything to do with him.

how many times have we seen that here? It's usually one of two things, injuries, drive/motivation/system. Vegas is not trying to get where you score goals. When the playoffs startup those wonderful snipes from "safe to the shooter" areas don't score as regularly because of blocked shots, goalies are usually more dialed in, etc. Vegas has plenty of talent, I don't get how some here can go "Stone is God" practically and then some say they have zero talent. The rest are good as well. But if you are not driving the net and trying to fight for the blue paint you are not going to perimeter snipe your way to victory. The other factor in this is Dallas is a heckuva team, their defense is solid, the goaltending is great right now (I personally think Bishop wilts in big games so him not in is why they are still in it) and they are BIG. It's hard for Vegas to get to the net when the other team is much bigger then you and playing structured hockey. I think Gallant can game plan around that, but DeBoer is not at his level. Also even with the size differential Gallant had his guys playing a lot more fearless.

It's one of *THE* reasons we brought Hornqvist in originally. Our in their prime stars tried to snipe their way past the Bruins and other teams and we know how that went.
I really like Lehner and think he's the right choice in net right now, but he needs to at least match the other goalie's level for them to win the next game, you can't have a single stoppable puck go in your net when you are getting no scoring support. Not that this is on him, just saying. Is the whole Fleury vs Lehner thing screwing something up in the locker room behind the scenes even though no one is making a stink? (doubt it but ya gotta wonder)

I for one thought Vegas would march through the west, but DeBoer has unravelled what Gallant had in place.

 

[vikingGoalie]

just to add to my last post this article touches on it: Here’s how Golden Knights can crack Dallas goalie Anton Khudobin

actually found that article after my post, but it agrees with my thoughts, so it must be right. right?

 

[Borgir]

Hopefully Dallas can finish the series off tonight, Go Dallas.

 

[BHD]

Vegas needs a coach who maximizes their talent. No team is going to score goals when 99% of their shots come from the point.

And again, I disagree with the take on "elite talent." We're brainwashed into thinking every team doesn't have elite talent if Crosby or Ovechkin aren't playing for them. Remember, Vegas made the SCF with Marchessault - Karlsson - Smith as their top line.

 

[Gurglesons]

Vegas needs a coach who maximizes their talent. No team is going to score goals when 99% of their shots come from the point.

And again, I disagree with the take on "elite talent." We're brainwashed into thinking every team doesn't have elite talent if Crosby or Ovechkin aren't playing for them. Remember, Vegas made the SCF with Marchessault - Karlsson - Smith as their top line.

Fluke year. They got to roll some really meh teams in LA and San Jose and then got lucky goaltending against Winnipeg. When they played an actual contender WAS tore them apart.

When was the last time a cup winner won without multiple elite players. St. Louis had ROR, Paryako and Piets last year. Who on Vegas is comparable to any of those talents?

 

[mpp9]

Fluke year. They got to roll some really meh teams in LA and San Jose and then got lucky goaltending against Winnipeg. When they played an actual contender WAS tore them apart.

When was the last time a cup winner won without multiple elite players. St. Louis had ROR, Paryako and Piets last year. Who on Vegas is comparable to any of those talents?

Mark Stone is comparable to ROR. But it's not like he has a Tarasenko on his team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Mark Stone is comparable to ROR. But it's not like he has a Tarasenko on his team.

Eh. I think they are close, but ROR to me has much more offensive pull.

 

[BHD]

@pixiesfanyo

ROR - Stone
Pietrangelo & Parayko - Theodore and Schmidt

Pacioretty would be their Tarasenko. And guess what, the Blues looked like their talent level against the Canucks. They ran roughshod over the Canucks on the shot clock, but couldn’t bury the puck. Yes they won the Cup last year, but that was with every player managing to score while committing to tight defense.

After all, that was the big takeaway with St. Louis winning. Balance made up for what they lacked in skill.

 

[Gurglesons]

@pixiesfanyo

ROR - Stone
Pietrangelo & Parayko - Theodore and Schmidt

Pacioretty would be their Tarasenko. And guess what, the Blues looked like their talent level against the Canucks. They ran roughshod over the Canucks on the shot clock, but couldn’t bury the puck. Yes they won the Cup last year, but that was with every player managing to score while committing to tight defense.

Theodore and Schmidt aren’t close to Pietrangelo and Parayko at all.

And are we talking this team or the cup final team?

 

[BHD]

Yet you’re overlooking the other 80% of the Blues roster that was average-above average in terms of talent.

Stone and Marchessault are elite wingers while Theodore is a very good defenseman. Pacioretty is a good goal scorer as well.

What I’m getting at is that you make it sound like the Knights are bereft of talent. Could they use another elite player? Maybe (they sure could right now). However, they’re a group whose talents are being squandered by suspect coaching.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Looks like TB’s year.

It sure is Teddy Blueger's year.

@Honour Over Glory

 

[Gurglesons]

Yet you’re overlooking the other 80% of the Blues roster that was average-above average in terms of talent.

Stone and Marchessault are elite wingers while Theodore is a very good defenseman. Pacioretty is a good goal scorer as well.

What I’m getting at is that you make it sound like the Knights are bereft of talent. Could they use another elite player? Maybe (they sure could right now). However, they’re a group whose talents are being squandered by suspect coaching.

Vegas does not have elite talent. Elite talent wins championships. Schenn and Schwartz are the quality of Vegas’ best players.

Theo is a young top pairing D who is not a defensive liability, but is certainly not at the level of Piets or Parayko. Schmidt is nowhere near that stratosphere.

Stone is an elite two-way forward that puts up
60 points a year. Patches has always been a major disappointment in the playoffs compared to Tarasenko. Marsh is nowhere near an “elite” winger.

The horses are just completely different and we are seeing that in the Dallas series. Radulov has Benn, Heiskanen and even Klingberg above him.

Not to mention Seguin is probably better than every Vegas C despite having a torn ankle and broken wrist.

 

[wheelz87]

I don’t understand the whole ‘Vegas has no talent’ sentiment but whatever. Stone is a ppg player. Patches and Marchessault are 1st like wingers. Smith, Tuch, Karlsson, Stastny... I’d kill to have some of these guys on the Pens

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Mark Stone is comparable to ROR. But it's not like he has a Tarasenko on his team.

He’s the closest to Marian Hossa currently in the league. I was hoping we were in on acquiring him when he became available. He’s one hell of a two way player.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t understand the whole ‘Vegas has no talent’ sentiment but whatever. Stone is a ppg player. Patches and Marchessault are 1st like wingers. Smith, Tuch, Karlsson, Stastny... I’d kill to have some of these guys on the Pens

Stone was a PPG player once in his career when he didn’t play a full season.

Patches and Marsh are 1st line wingers. Do you consider either of them a top ten talent at either position? Patches was at one point in his career.

Smith, Tuch, Karlsson, Stastny are all great players yes. But they are not elite game breakers. Which is why the Knights have difficulty scoring.

 

[BHD]

ITT: Schenn and Schwartz are better than Stone. Neat.

 

[Gurglesons]

ITT: Schenn and Schwartz are better than Stone. Neat.

Never said that.

Tarasenko, ROR, Pietrangelo and Parayko are not comparable to Patches, Stone, Theodore and Schmidt.

 

[vikingGoalie]

The point is Gallant seemed to maximize the talent Vegas has. Does Vegas have a generational super star? no. But they have legit 1st line wingers on their team. Their problem's are not on defense they are supressing shots like mad. The problem is that the way Vegas is playing right now they are falling right into Dallas's plans. They need to either get to the net, and if that is proving impossible because of the size differential start running and gunning. Colorado did this and if they got even a semblance of decent goal tending would have beat the Stars.

 

[BHD]

Never said that...

Vegas does not have elite talent... Schenn and Schwartz are the quality of Vegas’ best players.

So you're either overrating Schenn and Schwartz or underrating Stone. Like another person said, Stone is the present day Marian Hossa.

Anyways, we're splitting hairs over a team that has won a ton of games - including a run to the SCF - while being a good possession team. Right now, though, they would probably sacrifice a bit of that possession time for some goals.

 

[Gurglesons]

So you're either overrating Schenn and Schwartz or underrating Stone. Like another person said, Stone is the present day Marian Hossa.

Anyways, we're splitting hairs over a team that has won a ton of games - including a run to the SCF - while being a good possession team. Right now, though, they would probably sacrifice a bit of that possession time for some goals.

Hossa was a 80 pt winger in the dead puck era and a 100 pt winger in the same type of environment that Stone has been a 60-70 pt guy in the last two years. He ain't close to Marian Hossa and tbh, he is far closer to Schenn and Schwartz than Hossa.

The whole argument with Vegas is they are good at possession and not delivering. They are basically St. Louis without the elite talent of Tarasenko, ROR, Parayako and Piets like I said.

 

[wheelz87]

I want to leave this go but... the ‘elite’ talent of both ROR and tarasenko have NEVER in their career been a ppg player... piets, parayko.. yea great players. But St Louis is the worst team in the last decade plus to win the Cup.