Around the NHL XXXVII

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Deku

I'm off the planet
Nov 5, 2011
19,828
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Ottawa
Stone missed out on the playoffs a grand total of one season between the ECF run and being traded to Vegas. His comments would make much more sense coming from Duchene tbh.

I think he was probably just referring to how the last 2 seasons here have been a nightmare and I'm sure its nice to get out of it
 

MakeOttawaGreatAgain

Illest guy in town!
Feb 28, 2007
4,054
268
Stone missed out on the playoffs a grand total of one season between the ECF run and being traded to Vegas. His comments would make much more sense coming from Duchene tbh.

To be fair, by the time Ottawa makes the playoffs it may be a total of 3-5 years before Stone would get to play in the playoffs again had he stayed in Ottawa. I don't think this was a shot at the team. Vegas will be a playoff presumably team for years to come. Whereas in Ottawa he would be part of a rebuild.

We live in an age where every off hand comment is the next Watergate.
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
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Parts Unknown
You should hear them crying about how Babcock is the ruin of everything... imagine cutting him loose from his 8 year $50M contract early. LOL

I said in the summer that the Leafs would regret spending all that money on a redundant center, a position that they absolutely did not need any help at whatsoever, instead of on the blueline.

Nothing has changed my mind about that mistake since then.
 
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danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
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I said in the summer that the Leafs would regret spending all that money on a redundant center, a position that they absolutely did not need any help at whatsoever, instead of on the blueline.

Nothing has changed my mind about that mistake since then.

It still wouldn't have been a bad thing to get Tavares for free. It could have allowed them to trade one of Matthews or Marner for an absolute haul (or a #1 D), and then sign the other to an 8 year deal.

The problem with adding Tavares and keeping everybody is that it shortened the Leafs window and completely destroyed their salary structure. Matthews wasn't going to take less than Tavares, and if they signed Matthews to an 8 year deal, they'd be spending more cap on Matthews in the short term in order to have him cheaper during the back half of the deal when the salary cap has risen. Tavares won't be around or will be in a decline during the back half, so it makes sense to take the cap savings now.

One of the biggest mistakes TOR made was not locking down Matthews in the summer. He apparently wanted something in the 12M range over 8 years. If they turned that down, and then held strong later in the season, ok sure - but it makes no sense to me that they weren't ready to do that in the summer, and then in season they caved and signed him to 5 years at over 11 million. His market value did go up in that time, but it is a very inconsistent approach.

I think if the Leafs don't win a cup with this roster over the next 5 years, all the analysts and historians will point out the Tavares signing as being some trojan horse that destroyed the Leafs by making their salary cap situation unsolvable, but I still think it wasn't so much the Tavares signing as it was botching the extension for Matthews. Had they signed Matthews at 8 years 12.34 in the summer, while it would not have been a home run deal, it would be significantly better than paying him a few 100k less and only getting 5 years of term. It would have also set up Marner to take a similar deal, and assuming they are prepared to flip Nylander for someone like Pesce, they would have been fine cap wise even with Tavares/Marner/Matthews eating up 36 million.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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I'm also looking forward to the "the nhl screwd the leafs by allowing tampa to have good taxxes!1" takes five years from now.
 
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danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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That's silly. If it wasn't for Bettman we might have had a Cup by now.

If you're referring to the 06 lockout, without it multiple Canadian teams would have folded or relocated. We were one of the few doing well, but who knows how that would have changed with no salary cap and the turn in Melnyk's fortunes.

There were Canadian teams straight up saying that they could not operate anymore without a cap. The NHLPA did not care. There is a reason we missed an entire season. While I am not saying everything has been equal between owners and players since then, without the 06 lockout the NHL would be a much smaller niche league, and Canada would probably be home to some nice AHL territories.
 

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
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Parts unknown
If you're referring to the 06 lockout, without it multiple Canadian teams would have folded or relocated.

I'm actually referring to the 2004-5 lockout. There is little evidence that Canadian teams would have folded or relocated.

We were one of the few doing well, but who knows how that would have changed with no salary cap and the turn in Melnyk's fortunes.

What would have changed with no salary cap and a UFA age of 31, would be the Senators would have either been able to keep their best players or they could have traded the ones they did for significantly better value than they did.

There were Canadian teams straight up saying that they could not operate anymore without a cap.

They were liars. What evidence is there that these teams could not operate going forward without the CBA that resulted from the lockout?

The NHLPA did not care. There is a reason we missed an entire season. While I am not saying everything has been equal between owners and players since then, without the 06 lockout the NHL would be a much smaller niche league, and Canada would probably be home to some nice AHL territories.

Sounds like someone got played by Bettman and his team. The reason we lost a season is because Bettman felt the league could make more money in the long run by forcing a cap and allowing players to move to bigger markets at an earlier age.
 

Adele Dazeem

Registered User
Oct 20, 2015
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On an island
I mean the guy scored 47 goals this season... If he can do that and be reliable defensively that's huge.

He has to be much better in the Playoffs to warrant such a salary. Regular season stats mean very little when the main goal is the Cup; look at Kucherov.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,464
8,992
So good to see Tampa, Pitt & now Nashville out of the playoffs, hopefully the stinking Leafs will lose tonight too. Sure hope SJ loses tonight too.
 

Boud

Registered User
Dec 27, 2011
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6,983
He has to be much better in the Playoffs to warrant such a salary. Regular season stats mean very little when the main goal is the Cup; look at Kucherov.


I do not follow you at all with this line of thinking. Firstly because Tavares has been a pretty good playoff performer historically. He has 26 points in 30 games which is right around his regular season production as well. Nothing points to him being bad in the playoffs, and that's because he isn't a bad player in the playoffs. Tavares is one of those very few talented players that works hard every single shift and along the boards and the net. He's a presence out there and never afraid to make hits or get in the dirty areas, so for me to agree with you on that you'll have to do a lot more convincing. I've watched the games and thought Tavares was pretty good, hit 3 posts in the series just himself. Patrice Bergeron has pretty much the same stat line as Tavares as well, and I wouldn't say he's been bad by any stretch. I would also add that if you're judging him solely on the 6 playoffs games he's played with the Leafs, well I don't think it's fair to judge a player on such a small sample size regardless of the circumstances. We have very few information on the surface, how often do injuries come out after a team gets eliminated? Very often and again Tavares hasn't been bad at all. I'm not saying he's injured, but it's a common theme.

As for the second part of your comment, regular season stats mean very little ... I totally disagree with that. They mean a lot because you need to get to the playoffs in the first place. Regular season stats literally mean everything when talking about a player salary. Yes, maybe a player will make a bit more money if he's a proven playoff performer, but salary is based on regular season production for the most part. Otherwise guys like Smith-Pelly would be getting paid. Only 50% of the teams in the NHL even make the playoffs, so it would be foolish to think that regular season stats mean very little when in fact for most teams in the league they are the only stats you can lean on to negotiate salary. Bobby Ryan was a beast in the playoffs, I would not even want him on my team for the regular season.

I feel like people overthink the playoffs. You're playing against the best teams/coaching/players in the league in the playoffs. Of course at some point there has to be a winner and a loser. At some point a guy will be shut down and on the other end a guy will be dominating. It's just the way it works and sometimes it's not even necessarily the best player that dominates. Look at our run 2 years ago against the Pens, Crosby was held to pretty much nothing all series and he was matched up against Pageau who had monster playoffs. Then Crosby was probably the best player in the final. It's just the way it works sometimes when the sample size is so small. To come back to Tavares, I would also add that the top 9 has been moved around quite a bit, and that the Nylander line and Tavares line have been taking the harder matchups while the Matthews line has been able to take easier ones - and since then Matthews has been on fire.
 
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Adele Dazeem

Registered User
Oct 20, 2015
8,682
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On an island
I think my post is being misread. I'm not saying player salary should be dictated by playoff points over regular season points. I'm saying; 1. A player who has a large salary must be able to show up significantly and lead his team in the Playoffs and 2. Regular seasons point stacking means jackshit once the Playoffs starts.

As far as the Tavares comments go, my take is very simple. Just compare a guy like Toews to him. Both play a similar game but when you watch them in the Playoffs, the differences in play are night and day. One leads by example the other finds excuses and jumps ship (ironically the ship he jumped from is in the 2nd round...) This might seem like I hate Tavares, but I really don't. I don't rate him as highly as most people, but he's definitely better than a 4th liner like Smith-Pelly ;) All kidding aside, the key is in the results. Tavares has not shown me passion and an "it" factor to push through adversity. He's a talented elite center with sub-par motivation.
 
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