Around the NHL XXXVI - Final Countdown: 2018 edition

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danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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That Matthews extension. Eugene better get ready to pony up 9,500,000$ for Chabot!

Market for Chabot is 10-11 percent of the cap on a 7-8 year deal.

We better hope offer sheets don't come back, or else Chabot could be gone next summer if Melnyk is not prepared to sign off on 7-8 years 7.5-8.5 million.
 

Spartachat

Registered User
Aug 2, 2016
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Remember when Crosby was overpriced at 8. 7 million a year?

In a few years the Mathews contract will look cheap like Crosby's

Its market value. Each year the price goes up.

The amount is not the problem with the contract. The problem is he gave no free agent years for that amount. 8 years at 12 mil would have been a better deal.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
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The amount is not the problem with the contract. The problem is he gave no free agent years for that amount. 8 years at 12 mil would have been a better deal.
Yep,if I was in Chabot,s shoes I would be for sure looking at doing the exact same .....
 

sens13

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Mar 16, 2017
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I get the cap is growing but the leafs should have been able to buy a year or 2 extra. only 1 mill less than mcdavid and he hits ufa 2 years before mcdavid. he's nowhere close to mcdavid stratosphere.
 
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DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
14,507
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I get the cap is growing but the leafs should have been able to buy a year or 2 extra. only 1 mill less than mcdavid and he hits ufa 2 years before mcdavid. he's nowhere close to mcdavid stratosphere.

Toronto is not in the business of pissing off their franchise player.

Could they have driven a harder bargain and saved 500k-1 million? Sure. But they know what he means to that team moving forward, so they wanted to make it as painless as possible.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
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Are player's allowed to let it be known they are open and willing to sign competitive offer sheets so as to move on from their current poor situation?

Asking for a friend.
 

Spartachat

Registered User
Aug 2, 2016
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Are player's allowed to let it be known they are open and willing to sign competitive offer sheets so as to move on from their current poor situation?

Asking for a friend.

Tell Colin and Thomas that they should be careful as they could burn bridges.
 

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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Remember when Crosby was overpriced at 8. 7 million a year?

In a few years the Mathews contract will look cheap like Crosby's

Its market value. Each year the price goes up.

Nope this deal is a really bad one.

Crosby signed a 12 year deal. Its an absolute steal now and its why they have won 2 cups in the last 3 years.

Matthews contract is terrible you are buying those last three years by giving him so much up front now. Eichel got 10.5 for 8 years Mcdavid got 12.5 for 8. Matthews just got 11.6 for 5 along with huge signing bonus's and up front money horrid negotations by Dubas. Matthews is closer to Eichel than Mcdavid thats for sure. Id be furious if I was a leaf fan.
 
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Sens

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Jan 7, 2016
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I don’t know how this is a bad deal for the Leafs
They gave the money to re-sign him in five years... apparently they don’t care if it’s going to be 16-18 million to get it done
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
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Nope this deal is a really bad one.

Crosby signed a 12 year deal. Its an absolute steal now and its why they have won 2 cups in the last 3 years.

Matthews contract is terrible you are buying those last three years by giving him so much up front now. Eichel got 10.5 for 8 years Mcdavid got 12.5 for 8. Matthews just got 11.6 for 5 along with huge signing bonus's and up front money horrid negotations by Dubas. Matthews is closer to Eichel than Mcdavid thats for sure. Id be furious if I was a leaf fan.
What? There's nothing wrong for with this deal for the Leafs. He's getting appropriate money basically during their entire window of contention with their current core. MLSE doesnt care whatsoever about that money being bonus laden. In 5 years when he needs a contract, the richest team in the league will still be the Leafs and they'll be able to give him whatever he's worth then too on an even longer deal while he still has prime years left.

There is absolutely no reason Leafs fans should be upset with this.
 
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bert

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What? There's nothing wrong for with this deal for the Leafs. He's getting appropriate money basically during their entire window of contention with their current core. MLSE doesnt care whatsoever about that money being bonus laden. In 5 years when he needs a contract, the richest team in the league will still be the Leafs and they'll be able to give him whatever he's worth then too on an even longer deal while he still has prime years left.

There is absolutely no reason Leafs fans should be upset with this.

I explained it very well with examples not sure how you can argue otherwise. If you dont think that the best years of contention will be years 6 through 8. The cap will have gone up to fill the depth with elite players with the obvious and clear examples of Pittsburgh and Washington I dont know what to tell you other than you arent looking at the facts.

MLSE may not care about it being bonus laiden but its a clear and obvious perk to the contract and it got them nothing extra in return. In fact its a way worse deal than Mcdavid and Eichel signings
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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The amount is not the problem with the contract. The problem is he gave no free agent years for that amount. 8 years at 12 mil would have been a better deal.

With the top tier guys, they are getting UFA level money well before their UFA years.

Frankly, I'm surprised the leafs managed to get his average under 12 mil.
 

bert

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With the top tier guys, they are getting UFA level money well before their UFA years.

Frankly, I'm surprised the leafs managed to get his average under 12 mil.

How? How can this be argued with the Eichel and Mcdavid deals? He is worth 11.5 (max) on 8 years if you use those as the proper comparables. The upfront and Bonus money shoul have lowered the cap hit to 11.
 

GrantLemons

Church of FYOUS
Feb 3, 2013
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Ottawa, ON
Leafs would have had to go higher in AAV if they wanted to buy those extra 3 years, and clearly weren't comfortable doing that knowing they have to also get Marner done at a similar number.

They'll have a 5 year window with JT, Matthews, Marner, Nylander. That extra AAV they saved on only going 5 years will go towards surrounding them with more talent in the next 5 years.

I'm not seeing how it's a bad deal in the slightest. The only way it would be a bad deal is if they didn't already have JT @ 11x7, and also have to do Marner at a similar number.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
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I explained it very well with examples not sure how you can argue otherwise. If you dont think that the best years of contention will be years 6 through 8. The cap will have gone up to fill the depth with elite players with the obvious and clear examples of Pittsburgh and Washington I dont know what to tell you other than you arent looking at the facts.

MLSE may not care about it being bonus laiden but its a clear and obvious perk to the contract and it got them nothing extra in return. In fact its a way worse deal than Mcdavid and Eichel signings
You used Eichel and McDavid as comparables and he's making comparable money. You're very hung up on the term. I don't think it will matter. The Leafs might benefit from that in 5 years if they can get him on a 8 yeah deal that declines as he goes into his 30s. Maybe they won't, but I doubt they care because as I said the term of his deal will be their window. Tavares is 28 and Andersen 29. Their window is the next few years with Tavares being relatively young and having Rielly at 5M for the next 3.

Maybe they'll have a window in 6 to 8 years but that team would have to look drastically different and the Leafs really shouldn't be looking that far down the road with what they have. Win now.

Also, if they need cap relief I think they have some easy candidates to move in Marleau and Kadri. The less easy one would be Zaitsev. Then there's Nylander who could land them something great in return. I'd easily lock up Tavares, Marner and Matthews to the 35M or whatever they'll make combined. That's 3 core pieces who can basically drive your whole offense with little talent around them for around 3/8 of the cap. Pretty good use of cap space imo.
 

Canadian Time

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"According to a tax treaty between Canada and the United States, as a U.S. resident Matthews’ massive signing bonuses ($54.5M) would be taxed at 15 per cent in Canada. His salary ($3.65M) would be taxed at 53.53 per cent."

Saw this in a tweet, never knew this before. That's a massive savings on tax for Mathews by having the bulk in bonuses, not just the benefit of having it in the bank earlier. This has to be stopped though.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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We got Pittsburgh's 2019 3rd in the deal, but we also gave up our 3rd in 2018 in a classic Dorion pick downgrade. Also we gave up our 2nd in 2018 in the original Brassard trade.

The two trades actually work out to:

Zibanejad, Berggren, Annunen for Gustavsson, JBD, Tychonick, Loheit, 3rd, 3rd

Absolutely awful return for a young #1 center.




The post was about the zib for brass trade. You are talking about a bunch of different trades.

A bunch of trades, using the return they received for trading Zibanejad and a 2018 2nd round pick.

That trade bought back Derick Brassard and a 2018 7th round pick

Ottawa Traded Derick Brassard, Vincent Dunn and a 2018 3rd round pick to acquire Filip Gustavsson, Ian Cole, a 2018 1st round pick and a 2019 3rd round pick.

Ottawa Traded Ian Cole to acquire Nick Moutrey and a 2020 3rd round pick.

So starting with Trading Zibanejad and a 2018 2nd round pick, plus Vincent Dunn and a 2018 3rd round pick ....... (four assets)

The Senators end up with Filip Gustavsson, Nick Moutrey, Jacob Bernard-Docker, Luke Loheit, Johnny Tychonick, a 2019 3rd rounder, and a 2020 3rd ....(seven assets).




Sometimes you have to look at the longer picture, rather than just one snap shot in time.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
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Montreal, Canada
Sure, I why not? I know that this is more of a support group for hurt and damaged Sens fans in here, and is helpful to those who need to vent their frustrations, but I don’t have any interest in, or need of, any of that to be honest. The team is struggling, and will be bad for a while it would seem, the way I look at it is ‘well, it will be interesting to see how it all pans out’... I don’t take any of it personally.

The day I no longer have any positives to enjoy concerning the Sens is the the day that I’ll move on from watching/following them and do something different with my time and energy, and I won’t be posting in hear telling you all about it.

This is entertainment to me, certainly more of the soap opera variety than a winning sports team lately, but entertaining none the less. For good or for worse the Sens off ice drama doesn’t have a mainline to my emotional core. To be honest, I’ve lived long enough to understand that getting worked up over things I can’t control is something best avoided. I have a good life, I love my wife and children, and am happy, that’s what drives me.

I’ll never change any opinions around here, and won’t try. My perspective is not for everyone, but it is for me, I think I’ll continue to share my opinions occasionally, when it suits me, whether the ‘positive spin’ is welcome or not.

Carry on doing you, I’ll leave you to it, I promise.

Wait... Did you write this or I did? :laugh:

I think exactly the same, I’ve been through way too much in life to get emotionally affected by any kind of entertainment (which would be ridiculous in theory). This is interesting regardless and we can’t stress it enough, just an entertainment. It’s like people who get pissed off because something happened in their favorite TV show. I mean, there’s so much going on in life; so many choices to make, so little time to spend.

However, I do admit that I am kind of pissed off because of the missed opportunity. I look at the drafting since 2008 and don’t understand why we are in this situation today (well I do understand, Melnyk is way too much involved). Most teams would be contenders right now with that kind of drafting...
 
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BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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A bunch of trades, using the return they received for trading Zibanejad and a 2018 2nd round pick.

That trade bought back Derick Brassard and a 2018 7th round pick

Ottawa Traded Derick Brassard, Vincent Dunn and a 2018 3rd round pick to acquire Filip Gustavsson, Ian Cole, a 2018 1st round pick and a 2019 3rd round pick.

Ottawa Traded Ian Cole to acquire Nick Moutrey and a 2020 3rd round pick.

So starting with Trading Zibanejad and a 2018 2nd round pick, plus Vincent Dunn and a 2018 3rd round pick ....... (four assets)

The Senators end up with Filip Gustavsson, Nick Moutrey, Jacob Bernard-Docker, Luke Loheit, Johnny Tychonick, a 2019 3rd rounder, and a 2020 3rd ....(seven assets).




Sometimes you have to look at the longer picture, rather than just one snap shot in time.
Moutrey isn't even apart of the organisation...he's playing in Rockford, where he has a cool 1 point in 32 games.

Zibanejad + Breggran (2nd) + Annunnen (3rd) for Gustavsson + JBD + Tychonik + Loheit + 3rd + 3rd

So

Moultry - Not apart of the Sens organisation, no clue why you're using him here...
Gustavsson - 20 year old adjusting to AHL game
JBD - Freshman with great season at UND
Tychonik - Freshman with so-so season at UND
Loheit - NHL drafted guy who is having a terrible, terrible season in Junior A. Had Mono at the start of the year
3rd
3rd

Zibanejad - 25 year old, PPG #1C
Berggren - 18 year old struggling in SHL after injury riddled season
Annunnen - 18 year old Finnish netminder getting time in juniors and FEL
Dunn - Castaway playing in Timbuktu

That's after going through all the hoops of this trade leading to this trade, leading to this trade.

The trade by itself, is Zibanejad + Berggren for Brassard.
 
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Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
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"According to a tax treaty between Canada and the United States, as a U.S. resident Matthews’ massive signing bonuses ($54.5M) would be taxed at 15 per cent in Canada. His salary ($3.65M) would be taxed at 53.53 per cent."

Saw this in a tweet, never knew this before. That's a massive savings on tax for Mathews by having the bulk in bonuses, not just the benefit of having it in the bank earlier. This has to be stopped though.

I'm not a tax professional but the signing bonuses are just income just like the base salary they get taxed the same signing bonus is just a lumpsum that he is guaranteed to make regardless if the nhl has a lockout or not or if he gets sent to minors or bought out
 

Canadian Time

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I'm not a tax professional but the signing bonuses are just income just like the base salary they get taxed the same signing bonus is just a lumpsum that he is guaranteed to make regardless if the nhl has a lockout or not or if he gets sent to minors or bought out

We'd need to see the language of the treaty to know for sure. I imagine it's the difference in the terms salary and bonus. They must not include allowances as normal income.
 

starling

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Nov 7, 2010
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I'm not a tax professional but the signing bonuses are just income just like the base salary they get taxed the same signing bonus is just a lumpsum that he is guaranteed to make regardless if the nhl has a lockout or not or if he gets sent to minors or bought out
I guess he'll need to spend 6 months of a year in US. Wonder if he can live in Buffalo and commute to Toronto on his helicopter. :laugh:
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,989
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Nuts The column with 15,200,000 is signing bonuses.

2019-20 $11,630,000$11,630,000$0$15,200,000$700,000$15,900,000$15,900,000
2020-21 $11,630,000$11,630,000$0$15,200,000$700,000$15,900,000$15,900,000
2021-22 $11,630,000$11,630,000$0$9,700,000$750,000$10,450,000$10,450,000
2022-23 $11,630,000$11,630,000$0$7,200,000$750,000$7,950,000$7,950,000
2023-24NMC$11,630,000$11,630,000$0$7,200,000$750,000$7,950,000$7,950,000
TOTAL $58,150,000$58,150,000$0$54,500,000$3,650,000$58,150,000$58,150,000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

What a deal for Matthews.. I think this buys 1 UFA year?
 
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