BobColesNasalCavity
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Elliott for a 2nd which turned into Kyrou. Oh wait that's another bad deal.
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Elliott for a 2nd which turned into Kyrou. Oh wait that's another bad deal.
JPeeper
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Means you aren't a Flames fan, that's fine, just change your avi and go to Oilers HF where you belong.
Lunatik
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Why on gods green earth should this article be used to sway people? This article is f***ing terrible. He blames Treliving for things that are pretty clearly coaching decisions. He focuses on wingers, because apparently centermen and defenseen like Derek Ryan & DOugie Hamilton don't help with his point. He also doesn't touch on drafting and development.
If people want to decide, don't just throw them a link to a clearly biased article tht is clearly designed to be a hit piece.
Let's just stick to the facts.
The following is a year to year list of how we did (league rank, playoffs, GF, GA), the in-season moves,the offseason moves, and little notes to point out certain thigs like that we were in a rebuild, "x" player made a late season debut... etc
2013-14 (before Treliving): 27th Overall, missed playoffs, 23rd in GF/GP and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Flames are rebuilding, Gaudreau had just made his NHL debut, Monahan had 1 year under his belt, Burke didn't trade pending uFA Cammalleri
2014 Offseason
In: Brandon Bollig (Trade), Deryk Engelland, Jonas Hiller, Mason Raymond, Devon Setoguchi, Raphael Diaz, Sam Bennett (Draft)
Out: Kevin Westgarth, Chris Butler, Joey MacDonald, Blair Jones, Mike Cammalleri
2014-15: 22nd overall, made playoffs (3rd in division, advanced second round), 6th in GF/GP, and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Weak division, fluke playoff run, lots of comeback victories
In Seasons moves: Traded Corbin Knight for Drew Shore, Traded Curtis Glencross for 2nd & 3rd, Traded Sven Baertschi for a 2nd, added David Schlemko via waivers
2015 Offseason
In: Garnet Hathaway (NCAA FA), Jakub Nakladal (Euro FA), Dougie Hamilton (Trade), Rasmus Andersson (Draft), Oliver Kylington (Draft), Andrew Mangiapane (Draft), Michael Frolik (UFA),
Out: Ben Hanowski, Brian McGrattan, Devin Setoguchi, David Schlemko, Raphael Diaz,
2015-16: 26th overall, missed playoffs, 10th in GF/GP, 30th (last) in GA/GP
Notes: Fired Bob Hartley after the season, Hired Glen Gulutzan
In Seasons moves: Acquired Freddie Hamilton for Futures, Traded Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk, Traded Jiri Hudler for 2nd and 4th, Traded Kris Russell for 2nd, Brett Pollock and Jyrki Jokipakka, Traded David Jones for Niklas Backstrom and s 6th
2016 Offseason
In: David Rittich (Euro UFA), Brian Elliott (Trade), Matthew Tkachuk (Draft), Dillon Dube (Draft), Tyler Parsons (Draft), Adam Fox (Draft), Eetu Tuulola (Draft), Matthew Phillips (Draft), Alex Chiasson (Trade), Chad Johnson (UFA), Troy Brouwer, Niklas Grossmann, Kris Versteeg, Ryan Lomberg
Out: Jonas Hiller, Niklas Backstrom, Joe Colborne, Joni Ortio, Josh Jooris, Kenny Agostino, Mason Raymond, Kari Ramo
2016-17: 18th Overall, made playoffs (wildcard, lost in round 1), 17th in GF/GP, 14th in GA/GP
Notes: First season Treliving added at deadline, sign we are trying to move out of rebuild
In Seasons moves: Signed Matt Bartkowski (UFA), Traded 3rd and 5th for Michael Stone, Traded 2nd and Jyrki Jokipakka for Curtis Lazar,
2017 Offseason
In: Mike Smith (trade), Juuso Valimaki (draft), Travis Hamonic (trade), Adam Ruzicka (draft), Eddie Lack (trade), Jaromir Jagr
Out: Ladislav Smid, Chris Johnson, Deryk Engelland, Alex Chiasson, Lance Bouma, Brandon Bollig, Brian Elliott, Dennis Wideman
2017-18: 20th Overall, Missed Playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 19th in GA/GP
Notes: Gulutzan was fired after the season, Bill Peters was hired, Brian Burke resigned.
In Seasons moves: Signed Glenn Gawdin (CHL UFA), Traded Eddie Lack for Dalton Prout, Jaromir Jagr Retires, Trade 7th for Nick Shore, Claimed Chris Stewart off waivers,
2018 Offseason
In: Elias Lindholm (trade), Noah Hanifin (trade), Pospisill (draft), Pettersen (draft), Zavgoridny (draft), Austin Czarnik (UFA), Derek Ryan (UFA), Buddy Robinson (UFA), James Neal (UFA), Kerby Rychel (trade)
Out: Dougie Hamilton, Michael Ferland, Adam Fox, Nick Shore, Chris Stewart, Kris Versteeg, Matt Bartkowski, Matt Stajan, Hunter Shinkaruk, Brett Kulak, Troy Brouwer
2018-19: T-2nd, Made Playoffs (lost in round 1 to Colorado), t-2nd in GF/GP, 9th in GA/GP
Notes: Everything seemed to go right after a slow start
In Seasons moves: Traded Morgan Klimchuk for Andrew Nielsen, Traded 4th for Oscar Fantenberg, Signed Luke Philp (U-Sport UFA)
2019 Offseason
In: Artyom Zagidulin (Euro UFA), Carl-Johan Lerby (Euro UFA), Alexander Yelesin (Euro UFA), Jakob Pelletier (draft), Ilya Nikolaev (draft), Lucas Feuk (draft), Josh Nodler (draft), Dustin Wolf (draft), Cam Talbot UFA), Brian Froese (UFA), Justin Kirkland (UFA), Milan Lucic (Trade), Tobias Rieder (UFA), Zac Rinaldo (UFA)
Out: Dalton Prout, Garnet Hathaway, Mike Smith, Oscar Fantenberg, James Neal
2019-20: 19th, made return to play tournament/playoffs (won qualifying round, lost in round 1 to Dallas), 20th in GF/GP, 17th in GA/GP
Notes: Bill Peters scandal sees him fired and Geoff Ward replace him, season halted due to pandemic, playoffs done as return to play in August
In Seasons moves: Traded Michael Frolik for 4th, Traded 4th for Derek Forbort, Traded 3rd for Erik Gustafsson, Connor Mackey (NCAA UFA), Colton Poolman (NCAA UFA), Johannes Kinnvall (Euro UFA)
2020 Offseason
In: Connor Zary (draft), Yan Kuznetsov (draft), Jeremie Poirier (draft), Jake Boltmann (draft), Daniil Chechelev (draft), Ryan Francis (draft), Rory Kerins (draft), Ilya Solovyov (draft), Alex Petrovic (UFA), Chris Tanev (UFA), Jakob Markstrom (UFA), Louis Domingue (UFA), Joakim Nordstrom (UFA), Dominik Simon (UFA), Nikita Nesterov (UFA), Josh Lievo (UFA), Brett Ritchie (UFA)
Out: Mark Jankowski, Austin Czarnik, Cam Talbot, Derek Forbort, Erik Gustafsson, Ryan Lomberg, TJ Brodie, Tobias Rieder, Travis Hamonic
2020-21: (as of May 7th, 2am) 23rd, out of playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 16th in GA/GP
Notes: Covid shortened season, started in January 2021. Geoff Ward fired, Darryl Sutter hired mid-season
In Seasons moves: signed Walker Deuhr (NCAA UFA), traded David Rittich for 3rd, traded Sam Bennett for 2nd and Emil Heineman
CamPopplestone
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JPeeper
Hail Satan!
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Getting a starter for a 2nd when the Flames had no goalie is a bad deal? A goalie who got us into the playoffs.
Give your heads a shake people.
BobColesNasalCavity
Registered User
You mean the year he played 49 games for us and they got swept in the first round by the Ducks?
Our defence can’t score for shit either. You can’t have an immobile defence and a bad forward group in today’s nhl. His moves have been pretty bad everywhere.
JPeeper
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Being swept in the playoffs is a moot point, he got us into the playoffs. You think Chad Johnson was going to get us in? LOL
I'm not a Treliving Stan, but some of you need to put into perspective how bad Feaster was and Burke's short tenure (his one draft was a dumpster fire) was. Or you know, look around the rest of the league and see how many "bad" GM's there are.
If there is one man I trust in dealing Monahan, Gaudreau, et al. it's Treliving. He gets value back. When he starts adding depth d-men for 2nd's and 3rd's he loses me, but for big deals, he wins them handily.
I don't trust anyone else coming in and getting value back for our core, no one.
Elliott wasn't good, but we had TWO (2) ES goals across four games. Bennett and Stone.
Elliott losing that series is the biggest Flames myth ever.
BobColesNasalCavity
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A 2nd round pick for a goalie who wasn’t even resigned after one season? And that 2nd turned in Jordan Kyrou? Just say it was a bad trade and we can move on.
Mobiandi
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I agree. Our 5v5 play was awful, like it always is in the playoffs. But that was a young, inexperienced team that was learning how to win and I expected Elliott to be our most mentally strong guy. He really let the team down when we needed him in game 3 and 4
BobColesNasalCavity
Registered User
The closest anyone said of Elliott losing that series was you though. I scrolled up and didn’t see anyone else mention it.
Iggys Dome
Not allowed to say the “R-Word” (rebuild)
I think this summer will make or break Tre. He still has a chance to salvage this team, but he needs to pick a direction and stick with it. Either we go for a full on scorched earth rebuild (keep Lindy, Vali, Mang etc.) or swing for the fences and go for Eichel or whomever the f*** is available.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
It's honestly not. We did not have a lot of 5-on-5 offence, but if not for Elliott they would have had even less (seriously. Find two NHL-quality 5-on-5 goals against Elliott in the series). It's worth looking into how that series went game by game to realise the role he played.
Game 1 - No blame to Elliott on this one. We got the lead and then threw it away with a stupid change. The PP GWG wasn't fantastic, but hard to fault him.
Game 2 - Elliott put us in a two-goal hole with two unacceptable goals. It took a huge effort to get it tied (they outshot the Ducks 15-6 in the third), and then Getzlaf gets a flukey GWG on another PP. A pass that floated in from the high slot off a deflection.
Game 3 - This is where it really hurts, because the Flames lost two heart-breakers where they were with the Ducks the whole way in Game 2. The boys come home and get out to a big lead and have full control of the game (in spite of Elliott spotting them a goal on a hideous rebound) getting towards the second intermission. They are giving the Ducks nothing. The only thing that can save the Ducks is if weak floater wristers from the Eastern hemisphere start going in.... oh shit.
Game 4 - After putting their best game on the ice and dominating the Ducks only to be undone by their goaltending the game prior, the Flames then had to try to muster the strength to mount a comeback. But of course, Elliott allows what is essentially a saucer pass from the corner to go into the net. The Flames actually started this game fairly positively in spite of everything, and then Elliott just reminds them in an instant that nothing they do in front of him really matters. Game over at that point.
It's really hard for me to understand what you mean by "Elliott losing that series is the biggest Flames myth ever." He had one NHL-quality game out of three, and the fact that he was so horrendous completely robbed the Flames of a chance in the series. If that wasn't the definition of a goalie losing a series for his team, I'm not sure what is.
What is truly a myth is that the Flames were dominated by the Ducks simply because of the sweep. In fact, the Ducks were outplayed throughout the series while being repeatedly let off the hook by Elliott. If a team does not need high quality chances to score and their opponent does, it can lead to apparent domination really fast.
Volica
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I mean, the guy was coming off three seasons back-to-back-to-back, of ~2.0 GAA and 917-930 type save percentages.
In retrospect the bones of the trade are fine. Calgary just got a 3rd round pick for a goalie with almost no games left on his contract and who over the past year has hovered around a 900 SV% and 3.0 GAA.
That trade at that time was perfectly fine; what happens with picks is always a crapshoot; if St Louis picked the guy before or after Kyrou this would be a nothing-nothing trade. Same as the Sven trade in Calgary, or Kris Russell; at the end of the day, it depends on the pick.
Lunatik
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It's also worth nothing Hamilton played a big part in losing that series with his ill-timed penalties.
Lunatik
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If you completely ignore the 10 game winning streak that got us into the playoffs, I would agree
Mobiandi
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Lunatik
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DFF
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Sorry but thinking Elliot could be your number 1 is something not right with his head…no matter what the trade was
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
I think it's fair to say it was both, to be honest. Johnson came in and gave the team some much-needed stability by stealing some games while the team was in danger of falling completely out of it. Without that, even a 10-game heater wasn't going to bring us back from the dead.
Mazatt
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Using the result of a 2nd round pick to prove a trade was bad is faulty logic. If St. Louis picks a bust is it then not a good deal? If they trade a 7th and the next Datsyuk is selected is it a shitty deal for a top 6 player? The way the trade was at the time was fine. It was Treliving plugging holes on a roster with plenty of holes. It didn't end up with any playoff wins but for a 2nd, just getting there and having a starter seems alright. Either way, using the after-the-fact value of the player picked is not solid grounds for the trade being good or bad.
BobColesNasalCavity
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Except for that St Louis didn’t pick a bad player with their 2nd, so you didn’t need to write this post.
Mobiandi
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If we're gonna call the Russell and Baertschi trades a win, we have to call the Elliott trade a loss
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