Around the NHL Thread - Found the Missing #16

[InfinityIggy]

I disagree, I think the odds of the Oilers getting into a playoff spot is quite unlikely.

If Neal wasn't there someone else would have scored most of those goals. Kassian & Chiasson would most likely have a few more goals. I doubt Neal has made a difference of more than a couple goals.

James Neal is not a good winger. He can score some ugly goals while being a complete ****ing abortion anywhere other than 5 feet from the opposition net. Goals don't make you good, they just fool stupid people into thinking you are.

I don’t entirely buy that, if those players were going to produce to that level with McDavid, they would’ve already. The Oilers certainly tried.

It’s not really if Neal is ‘good or bad’ it’s if he will produce with McDavid, which is all that matters for the Oilers.

I’m of the opinion Neal is going to fall off drastically here and struggle to reach 20 goals before seasons end. However, there is also a scenario where he doesn’t drop off, and he finds that same success he’s had with other top players like Crosby and Malkin. Bottom line is, we created that option for the Oilers.

 

[Lunatik]

I don’t entirely buy that, if those players were going to produce to that level with McDavid, they would’ve already. The Oilers certainly tried.

It’s not really if Neal is ‘good or bad’ it’s if he will produce with McDavid, which is all that matters for the Oilers.

I’m of the opinion Neal is going to fall off drastically here and struggle to reach 20 goals before seasons end. However, there is also a scenario where he doesn’t drop off, and he finds that same success he’s had with other top players like Crosby and Malkin. Bottom line is, we created that option for the Oilers.

Chiasson had 15 by Christmas last year with McDavid. Kassian has just recently started getting opportunities there iirc. So, we have seen Chiasson do it and I don't see why Kassian couldn't if given the opportunity on the PP as he does have already 3 ES goals playing with McDavid and Drai.

As for creating an opportunity, who gives a f***. He was clearly not a personality Treliving felt comfortable keeping around, despite doing so with others. And if we took Lucic back in a deal, it's because there was no better offer out there, maybe no other offer at all out there.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Chiasson had 15 by Christmas last year with McDavid. Kassian has just recently started getting opportunities there iirc. So, we have seen Chiasson do it and I don't see why Kassian couldn't if given the opportunity on the PP as he does have already 3 ES goals playing with McDavid and Drai.

As for creating an opportunity, who gives a ****. He was clearly not a personality Treliving felt comfortable keeping around, despite doing so with others. And if we took Lucic back in a deal, it's because there was no better offer out there, maybe no other offer at all out there.

Yes, Chiasson did: being propped up by McDavid. That is the entire point. Even with McDavid he still wasn't an effective top line winger. They still needed a solution. Which is why Neal w/ McDavid is such a boon for them, potentially.

As I said earlier, opportunity matters because the Oilers are in our division and we are competing directly with them for a playoff spot. It can quite literally affect both our odds of making the playoffs, and where we seed.

There was almost certainly no other offer on the table, Neal's play meant no other team would've had an equally bad contract to send us back. This isn't to be confused with a criticism of Lucic either, he is a better option for our bottom 6 than Neal was, no doubt.

The issue is that there seems to be this desire to simply hand-wave away the reality that we may have given the Oilers a big gift. Time will tell.

 

[Fig]

Yes, Chiasson did: being propped up by McDavid. That is the entire point. Even with McDavid he still wasn't an effective top line winger. They still needed a solution. Which is why Neal w/ McDavid is such a boon for them, potentially.

As I said earlier, opportunity matters because the Oilers are in our division and we are competing directly with them for a playoff spot. It can quite literally affect both our odds of making the playoffs, and where we seed.

There was almost certainly no other offer on the table, Neal's play meant no other team would've had an equally bad contract to send us back. This isn't to be confused with a criticism of Lucic either, he is a better option for our bottom 6 than Neal was, no doubt.

The issue is that there seems to be this desire to simply hand-wave away the reality that we may have given the Oilers a big gift. Time will tell.

I would have loved to swap Neal for Turris...

But Chiasson without Chiarelli in the organization... Is he going to be as effective? I also bet Gully has a say in helping him get top line minutes?

 

[Fig]

I disagree, I think the odds of the Oilers getting into a playoff spot is quite unlikely.

If Neal wasn't there someone else would have scored most of those goals. Kassian & Chiasson would most likely have a few more goals. I doubt Neal has made a difference of more than a couple goals.

James Neal is not a good winger. He can score some ugly goals while being a complete ****ing abortion anywhere other than 5 feet from the opposition net. Goals don't make you good, they just fool stupid people into thinking you are.

You make this sound like Neal's stick is like Colborne's butt circa 2016.

 

[Lunatik]

You make this sound like Neal's stick is like Colborne's butt circa 2016.

I don't buy the stick excuse.

Neal simply did not try here because he didn't get what he wanted. It's that simple.

 

[Lunatik]

Yes, Chiasson did: being propped up by McDavid. That is the entire point. Even with McDavid he still wasn't an effective top line winger. They still needed a solution. Which is why Neal w/ McDavid is such a boon for them, potentially.

As I said earlier, opportunity matters because the Oilers are in our division and we are competing directly with them for a playoff spot. It can quite literally affect both our odds of making the playoffs, and where we seed.

There was almost certainly no other offer on the table, Neal's play meant no other team would've had an equally bad contract to send us back. This isn't to be confused with a criticism of Lucic either, he is a better option for our bottom 6 than Neal was, no doubt.

The issue is that there seems to be this desire to simply hand-wave away the reality that we may have given the Oilers a big gift. Time will tell.

Who gives a shit what thed Oilers may have.

That is my point

They could clone McDavid and they'd still not be a playoff team.

BTW, the clones name would be Cloner McDavid.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Who gives a **** what thed Oilers may have.

Teams competing with them for a playoff spot.

 

[Lunatik]

Teams competing with them for a playoff spot.

So, no one.

 

[InfinityIggy]

So, no one.

No, the Western conference is competing with them. They currently occupy a playoff spot.

 

[Lunatik]

No, the Western conference is competing with them. They currently occupy a playoff spot.

They always occupy a spot in mid-October. BY the time January rolls around they will be fighting for a bottom 5 spot, like usual.

 

[Fig]

I don't buy the stick excuse.

Neal simply did not try here because he didn't get what he wanted. It's that simple.

It was more tongue in cheek, but if serious is the conversationally the way to go...

It's not strong enough of an excuse on its own, but there were perhaps a ton of things that added up was that tiny straw that broke the camel's back. New stick didn't help transition, which means stumbling out of the block, which meant Lindholm stole a spot meant for him and he didn't have anything at all to show to dismantle the 3M line. Add in supposed stick durability issues which added to his ability to get familiarity with the stick and mounting frustrations, I can perhaps see why the stick alone added slightly enough to break the camel to the point of no return.

Yes, he gave up, end of story. But maybe (and even perhaps Neal himself won't know the answer), if that stick wasn't as big of an issue, he would have had the opportunity to be more patient before giving up all together. Maybe him showing up out of shape/burnt out wouldn't have been as badly exposed. Who knows. It's all conjecture at this point anyways.

I joke about the stick and I am not ever trying to say it is the only reason or even a main reason for Neal's failure, but seriously, there's always an element of truth to a joke. The stick surely didn't help the situation.

 

[super6646]

It was more tongue in cheek, but if serious is the conversationally the way to go...

It's not strong enough of an excuse on its own, but there were perhaps a ton of things that added up was that tiny straw that broke the camel's back. New stick didn't help transition, which means stumbling out of the block, which meant Lindholm stole a spot meant for him and he didn't have anything at all to show to dismantle the 3M line. Add in supposed stick durability issues which added to his ability to get familiarity with the stick and mounting frustrations, I can perhaps see why the stick alone added slightly enough to break the camel to the point of no return.

Yes, he gave up, end of story. But maybe (and even perhaps Neal himself won't know the answer), if that stick wasn't as big of an issue, he would have had the opportunity to be more patient before giving up all together. Maybe him showing up out of shape/burnt out wouldn't have been as badly exposed. Who knows. It's all conjecture at this point anyways.

I joke about the stick and I am not ever trying to say it is the only reason or even a main reason for Neal's failure, but seriously, there's always an element of truth to a joke. The stick surely didn't help the situation.

Never understood why Neal was pencilled on the top line. I always thought he was going to flank Tkachuk and Backlund from day 1, and that Lindy didn’t actually steal anything. His awful chemistry likely had an effect in that experiment ending quickly.

And I have no qualms in trading Neal itself, but taking back that lucic anchor is going to look so bad for years to come.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Not a great night for the OOT scoreboard. Ducks, Sharks, and Oilers all up by at least two.

 

[Fig]

Never understood why Neal was pencilled on the top line. I always thought he was going to flank Tkachuk and Backlund from day 1, and that Lindy didn’t actually steal anything. His awful chemistry likely had an effect in that experiment ending quickly.

And I have no qualms in trading Neal itself, but taking back that lucic anchor is going to look so bad for years to come.

Neal on the top line made a ton of sense. In theory he plays similarly to Hudler who had great chemistry with JG and Mony and was perfect to replace Ferland... Until he got Viktor Zebulon'd before either of them even played a single game.

We paid a ton to Carolina and at first it seemed like we overpaid for Hanifin and Lindholm but not too badly... Holy hell did we run off into the night with a heck of a heist.

 

[super6646]

Neal on the top line made a ton of sense. In theory he plays similarly to Hudler who had great chemistry with JG and Mony and was perfect to replace Ferland... Until he got Viktor Zebulon'd before either of them even played a single game.

We paid a ton to Carolina and at first it seemed like we overpaid for Hanifin and Lindholm but not too badly... Holy hell did we run off into the night with a heck of a heist.

Two trigger men on the same line? Nope, never saw it. Lindy always made sense to be given the versatility of his game.

 

[Fig]

Two trigger men on the same line? Nope, never saw it. Lindy always made sense to be given the versatility of his game.

Let me rephrase. It made sense on paper.

Ferland was also a trigger man and he did well with JG and Mony. He just wasn't consistent. James Neal went to the dirty areas like Hudler did (who did well with JG/Mony) although Hudler was more a play maker than shooter. Neal on paper seemed like something in between both of those guys and theory should have fit.

Peters had also expressed that the plan involved Lindholm centering a line. I think plan wise, it was always supposed to be this the moment Lindholm cooled off:

JG - Mony - Neal
3M
X - Lindholm - X
X - Ryan - X

But Lindholm never cooled off AND he pushed the top line towards a Monahan C/LW and Gaudreau LW/RW by being the C/RW on that line.

I really wanted Neal to succeed. I really did. I also really, really, really wanted James and the giant Be'ach to be a thing (replacing Frolik). He didn't even show a glimmer of an ability to achieve either last season.

 

[crackdown44]

Not a great night for the OOT scoreboard. Ducks, Sharks, and Oilers all up by at least two.

Somebody needs to fire up the magic number thread

 

[crackdown44]

Feel like Edmonton always gets the team on the 2nd half of the back to back? Well you’re not wrong

Also I feel for smelliot he’s going to get toasted on the 2nd half of b2bs a lot this year. Philly gets pretty shafted

 

[Vkonroy]

Feel like Edmonton always gets the team on the 2nd half of the back to back? Well you’re not wrong

Also I feel for smelliot he’s going to get toasted on the 2nd half of b2bs a lot this year. Philly gets pretty shafted

View attachment 265953

Oilers complained incessantly about us having this advantage last year when it was only one game in our favor but otherwise equal between us; expect to still hear nothing but complaining again this year from them even though they are clearly the recipient of it in their favor.

Let's not stoop to their tantrum, jersey tossing, cry baby level if we can avoid it!

 

[crackdown44]

Oilers complained incessantly about us having this advantage last year when it was only one game in our favor but otherwise equal between us; expect to still hear nothing but complaining again this year from them even though they are clearly the recipient of it in their favor.

Let's not stoop to their tantrum, jersey tossing, cry baby level if we can avoid it!

They had the most favorable spread in the league last year. They would just yell louder when we beat up a team on a b2b. Here are the numbers for 18-19

 

[Calculon]

 

[crackdown44]

Arizona just put up 21 shots on the Rangers in the 1st period

 

[crackdown44]

OOTSB looking sexy af right now if it holds

 

[crackdown44]

OOTSB looking sexy af right now if it holds

and they’ve all come back to force OT so far