OT: Around the NHL - Now for Some Actual Hockey

[Andy99]

Which is precisely the problem we have. We did this when Letang/Dumo/Malkin were out and looked like world beaters. We get more healthy and we decide we are going to skate through 5 guys looking at us at the blue line instead of chipping it behind (among other issues).

Here's the thing though...we're still paying the second highest salary on D for playing a structured system that half the D can't play...either we trade out JJ, Guds and possible Maatta (who actually would be good in that system) and spend the money on forwards who can put the puck in the net when that D forces a TO, or you try to get more D who can skate with the puck and transition well and jump in the play, like Letang and Dumo...the core of this team wants to play the latter because they get to play in the O zone more...either way, at least two overpaid D men must go, and if one of them isn't JJ, who can't play either well and shouldn't be in the top 6, then it won't matter...

 

[ncm7772]

Too bad his Game 7 reputation didn't prevent his team from getting shutout at home in 2017.

Yup yup!!!!!

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Could you imagine if Sid did the clapping that Ovi did? HF Boards would have crashed for at least 3 days

 

[BladeRunner66]

For a team that employs Wilson, for whom Ovi spent a career getting away with borderline shots, some might mention Karma.

Indeed! HocKarma?

Rooting for Knights, Jackets & Canes. If the Craps win against Canes i think they might get through Isles but not Jackets.

 

[Shady Machine]

Just goes to show that you don't really need an all-star defensive corps to win in the playoffs. Defensively you just need guys who can beat out the dump-ins and make a good first pass under pressure. Clearing out the front of the net isnt that big of a deal anymore because everyone collapses so you have help with the loose pucks and most shots dont even make it through.

I think your money is probably better spent on forwards if the entire team buys in to playing a patient, structured game.

Klingberg and Heiskenen are all stars or in Heiskenen's case, will be one very soon.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just goes to show that you don't really need an all-star defensive corps to win in the playoffs. Defensively you just need guys who can beat out the dump-ins and make a good first pass under pressure. Clearing out the front of the net isnt that big of a deal anymore because everyone collapses so you have help with the loose pucks and most shots dont even make it through.

I think your money is probably better spent on forwards if the entire team buys in to playing a patient, structured game.

Pretty much every team that got through, but the Isles has a pretty solid and mobile D core

Johnson, Barrie, Cole, Nemeth
Pietro, Edmunson, Parayoko, Bouwmeester
Heiskenen, Klingberg, Lindell, Polak (LOL)
Jones, Werenski, Savard, Murray

Even the Isles have Leddy and Pulock.

 

[Gurglesons]

I also just realized Oleksiak and Lovejoy is Dallas’s bottom pairing.

Imagine what could have been..

Dumo - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Oleksiak - Lovejoy

 

[Turin]

The big thing is that none of them have a Jack Johnson who consistently goes out of position and kills his teams offense at the same time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Here's the thing though...we're still paying the second highest salary on D for playing a structured system that half the D can't play...either we trade out JJ, Guds and possible Maatta (who actually would be good in that system) and spend the money on forwards who can put the puck in the net when that D forces a TO, or you try to get more D who can skate with the puck and transition well and jump in the play, like Letang and Dumo...the core of this team wants to play the latter because they get to play in the O zone more...either way, at least two overpaid D men must go, and if one of them isn't JJ, who can't play either well and shouldn't be in the top 6, then it won't matter...

I admire your positive out look.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Here's the thing though...we're still paying the second highest salary on D for playing a structured system that half the D can't play...either we trade out JJ, Guds and possible Maatta (who actually would be good in that system) and spend the money on forwards who can put the puck in the net when that D forces a TO, or you try to get more D who can skate with the puck and transition well and jump in the play, like Letang and Dumo...the core of this team wants to play the latter because they get to play in the O zone more...either way, at least two overpaid D men must go, and if one of them isn't JJ, who can't play either well and shouldn't be in the top 6, then it won't matter...

Totally agree that we are putting waaay to much $$$ in our D and that has to be fixed. But I would argue that a large percentage of our problem lies with our Stars. They flat out refuse to adapt and play consistent hockey the way the coach is telling them. Just look at Vegas those forwards are literally all over the ice, everywhere from crashing around their own net to clear out / block lanes, to crashing the other net and fore checking. They play exactly how we looked in 2016 imo.
Now, the puck gets dumped in on us our forwards more times then not are too high in our zone, looking to fly and not generally supporting our D well. Through the netural zone we try to pass laterally FAR too often, and at the blue line we try to skate the puck in or maybe a drop pass. Other teams FEAST on this if they play structured hockey. It's not rocket science, our stars just flat out refuse to play the kind of game they need to to win and want to just rely on their talent. When you're on the wrong side of 30 you're not going to just out skate someone 10 years younger anymore.

Not saying to you @Andy99 so much. Just in general people should watch game 4 against the islanders for text book example of this. First minute of the game, we dumped, fore checked and generated offense off the cycle and scored. After that we only did it sporadically and repeatedly tried to get far too cute at the blue line.

Thing is if you are going North and constantly putting the puck north and going to get it while staying on your toes you will end up playing "fast" hockey. Once again, watch Vegas everyone. If we played like that with our forwards it wouldn't matter so much who is on D, you can have Derek England leading your team in average ice time and look great. Still point stands Andy, we need to jettison salary on Defense, i'd love to see JJ+Olli get jettisoned.

 

[Shady Machine]

Totally agree that we are putting waaay to much $$$ in our D and that has to be fixed. But I would argue that a large percentage of our problem lies with our Stars. They flat out refuse to adapt and play consistent hockey the way the coach is telling them. Just look at Vegas those forwards are literally all over the ice, everywhere from crashing around their own net to clear out / block lanes, to crashing the other net and fore checking. They play exactly how we looked in 2016 imo.
Now, the puck gets dumped in on us our forwards more times then not are too high in our zone, looking to fly and not generally supporting our D well. Through the netural zone we try to pass laterally FAR too often, and at the blue line we try to skate the puck in or maybe a drop pass. Other teams FEAST on this if they play structured hockey. It's not rocket science, our stars just flat out refuse to play the kind of game they need to to win and want to just rely on their talent. When you're on the wrong side of 30 you're not going to just out skate someone 10 years younger anymore.

Yes look at Vegas forwards. They are top to bottom a lot better than ours. Out stars deserve blame for sure, but this was a whole team failure.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The big thing is that none of them have a Jack Johnson who consistently goes out of position and kills his teams offense at the same time.

He earned a lot of the blame earlier in the year, but the last few months of the season he was not really an issue. He was not great, but he played to his pay level and the analytics backed that.

He is an easy blame target, but there are others way more deserving.

 

[Turin]

He earned a lot of the blame earlier in the year, but the last few months of the season he was not really an issue. He was not great, but he played to his pay level and the analytics backed that.

He is an easy blame target, but there are others way more deserving.

He played to his pay level for about two weeks. The last 3 weeks of the season he was awful again.

 

[Andy99]

Totally agree that we are putting waaay to much $$$ in our D and that has to be fixed. But I would argue that a large percentage of our problem lies with our Stars. They flat out refuse to adapt and play consistent hockey the way the coach is telling them. Just look at Vegas those forwards are literally all over the ice, everywhere from crashing around their own net to clear out / block lanes, to crashing the other net and fore checking. They play exactly how we looked in 2016 imo.
Now, the puck gets dumped in on us our forwards more times then not are too high in our zone, looking to fly and not generally supporting our D well. Through the netural zone we try to pass laterally FAR too often, and at the blue line we try to skate the puck in or maybe a drop pass. Other teams FEAST on this if they play structured hockey. It's not rocket science, our stars just flat out refuse to play the kind of game they need to to win and want to just rely on their talent. When you're on the wrong side of 30 you're not going to just out skate someone 10 years younger anymore.

Not saying to you @Andy99 so much. Just in general people should watch game 4 against the islanders for text book example of this. First minute of the game, we dumped, fore checked and generated offense off the cycle and scored. After that we only did it sporadically and repeatedly tried to get far too cute at the blue line.

Thing is if you are going North and constantly putting the puck north and going to get it while staying on your toes you will end up playing "fast" hockey. Once again, watch Vegas everyone. If we played like that with our forwards it wouldn't matter so much who is on D, you can have Derek England leading your team in average ice time and look great. Still point stands Andy, we need to jettison salary on Defense, i'd love to see JJ+Olli get jettisoned.

I agree that the stars didn’t do this...and Sid was a big culprit in that. The question is why...I don’t think it’s that they don’t care as JR contends...I think they can’t do it anymore or want some help doing it...I do think the lack of effort against the Isles was a statement to the FO...they need more help...most of the wingers on the team weren’t playing well or unable to score, and we don’t have the D to help get the puck out...Sid and G and Letang want to play in the O zone, at over 30 theyre not interested in banging it around on D or playing in a system like the 1995 Devils...I don’t think they saw the type of roster to get it done this year

 

[Turin]

Toronto vs Vegas final would be crazy. Imagine the team who hasn’t won since the first expansion losing to a new expansion team.

 

[Gurglesons]

He earned a lot of the blame earlier in the year, but the last few months of the season he was not really an issue. He was not great, but he played to his pay level and the analytics backed that.

He is an easy blame target, but there are others way more deserving.

The analytics did not back it up. The analytics backed up Matt Murray going batshit insane for a few months and JJ playing exactly the same as he had all year.

 

[Andy99]

The analytics did not back it up. The analytics backed up Matt Murray going bat**** insane for a few months and JJ playing exactly the same as he had all year.

He looked improved on LD after moving back from RD where he was worse than atrocious...but that lasted a short while until everyone began to notice how he did not help Schultz and the pair was a total disaster on the ice...

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The analytics did not back it up. The analytics backed up Matt Murray going bat**** insane for a few months and JJ playing exactly the same as he had all year.

Eh he did have that stretch where he was pretty darn good, analytics be damned. I reviewed like 5 games in that period thinking my eyes were tricking me on my initial watching of the game. Thought there was no way JJ was playing well...indeed he was.

Then we experienced the expected regression to the mean at the tail end of the season. Yup JJ was who he thought he was...

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Toronto vs Vegas final would be crazy. Imagine the team who hasn’t won since the first expansion losing to a new expansion team.

I could see riots in Toronto kinda like the ones in Vancouver when Boston beat them

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Eh he did have that stretch where he was pretty darn good, analytics be damned. I reviewed like 5 games in that period thinking my eyes were tricking me on my initial watching of the game. Thought there was no way JJ was playing well...indeed he was.

Then we experienced the expected regression to the mean at the tail end of the season. Yup JJ was who he thought he was...

I find it adorable that people use analytics when it suits them, but then ignore it when it would explain a lot to them, like the person you quoted.

And I agree with you, JJ was playing well and we all hated it because we had to admit it.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Coaches are always complementary of each other.

I like seeing some bad blood.

 

[treeni12]

 

[66-30-33]

Eh he did have that stretch where he was pretty darn good, analytics be damned. I reviewed like 5 games in that period thinking my eyes were tricking me on my initial watching of the game. Thought there was no way JJ was playing well...indeed he was.

Then we experienced the expected regression to the mean at the tail end of the season. Yup JJ was who he thought he was...

This video got me watching



They are what they thought we were.
I am whatever you say I am.

 

[Gurglesons]

I find it adorable that people use analytics when it suits them, but then ignore it when it would explain a lot to them, like the person you quoted.

And I agree with you, JJ was playing well and we all hated it because we had to admit it.

It’s adorable how people don’t even check the analytics and act like they did.

Please point to this time period that Jack Johnson was a positive possession player and not having a bump to his numbers due to unsustainable SV% of our goalie.

 

[Rossi Rat]

Coaches are always complementary of each other.

I like seeing some bad blood.

Yep, so boring that Sully and Torts are friends.

Oh well. Give it a few years, Sully will be somewhere else, Torts will be on his 5th team, and whoever it is the Pens have will be one of those polarizing figures getting into it with other coaches.