OT: Around the NHL: Free agency is upon us

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Shame he's one of those kind of dicks re the training stuff. Clearly isn't needed to have success and seems like there's a good chance it'll be counter-productive in some cases. Plus, you know, kind of being a a dick.
Caps and Bolts show that booze and drugs get the job done.
 
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Tacitus Kilgore

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I remember hearing Sid felt really loosened up after Guerin entered the lockerroom, like he helped Sid not be too ridged leadership-wise and took pressure off of him. I wonder if Mack could've used a presence in the Avs lockerroom earlier on in his development. I guess they had Iggy for a bit, but Iggy still had the pressure of not winning a Cup. Where as Guerin had been there done that
 

Gurglesons

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I remember hearing Sid felt really loosened up after Guerin entered the lockerroom, like he helped Sid not be too ridged leadership-wise and took pressure off of him. I wonder if Mack could've used a presence in the Avs lockerroom earlier on in his development. I guess they had Iggy for a bit, but Iggy still had the pressure of not winning a Cup. Where as Guerin had been there done that

Yeah, also notice how they didn't win again until they put Kessel, Cullen and Bonino in that room.

It's why I liked the addition of Kapanen. I think McGinn seems like a good add from that standpoint too.
 

Tacitus Kilgore

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This is in 08' during the Finals, and i think coming off a loss too. Sid is still pretty loose here and Whitney even manages to get him to laugh and smile. For someone who's as dedicated as Sid, and hasn't even won a Cup yet here it shows a lot.


 

Tacitus Kilgore

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Yeah, also notice how they didn't win again until they put Kessel, Cullen and Bonino in that room.

It's why I liked the addition of Kapanen. I think McGinn seems like a good add from that standpoint too.

I think Tanev was good in that sense as well in the locker room too. Him and Kap were vacaying together for the early/mid parts of July
 

Tacitus Kilgore

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I don't really see Zadorov's comments saying MacKinnon doesn't joke around.

He very well could be a chill guy who can bust a funny every now and then. We haven't seen much of it though, other than his interview on spitten chiclets which I encourage everyone to watch despite their feelings on Barstool. That vid of Sid from 08' though is probably more chill than most you'll find of Mack today. I think Mack does probably joke around, but maybe not as much as he should when compared to how light sid keeps things at times, and even in the finals as evidenced in that vid
 

Big McLargehuge

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Mac seems to have the type of leadership that would get me to shut down out of spite.

There's no such thing as one size fits all. We all know Sid is f***ing weird, but he is also at least partially chill in that his weirdness is doing the same thing over and over again rather than demanding perfection out of everyone around him. Phil Kessel will always be a hero of mine for giving that 'you must hate yourself to win' mentality the finger. I'd like to think Sid isn't so demanding of everyone around him in part because of some of the guys he's won with...and I think it's entirely possible that part of Mac's personality here is that pressure to win himself. Dude is too good to not even be the best player from his hometown.

Let's be clear here, I'm under no expectation that I'd be friends with everyone on the team I root for, never mind one I'd play for. The problem is that when you set a hard line and start making demands and throwing out 'tough love' for mistakes. Adding unnecessary pressure to a high-pressure job is more often going to result in the boiler blowing out than a more efficient burn.

I think players being more aware of what diet and exercise is a good thing in general, and I want to hear about guys on my team being hard workers and whatnot. I just also know how I react around people who get zealous about that kind of thing. It's too easy for me to imagine fractures in a locker room like that. We succeeded with Phil because we let Phil be Phil, not because we badgered him into being a completely different player. You can't just let everyone be Phil Kessel and doing their own thing, but you also can't demand that everyone be in the other extreme either. Every team is going to have players of different backgrounds, different personalities, different bodies, different strengths, different weaknesses. Good leaders strike a balance. Bad leaders demand fealty.

Generally speaking this is the kind of conversation that makes you realize just how pointless leadership awards are. Truly the 'best' leaders are the ones that can alter their styles on an individualized basis and understand boundaries...stuff that's a lot harder to find out about than these kinds of antics. Also coming to the realization that Herb Brooks would have been the worst possible coach for someone like me :laugh:
 

eXile3

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Mac seems to have the type of leadership that would get me to shut down out of spite.

There's no such thing as one size fits all. We all know Sid is f***ing weird, but he is also at least partially chill in that his weirdness is doing the same thing over and over again rather than demanding perfection out of everyone around him. Phil Kessel will always be a hero of mine for giving that 'you must hate yourself to win' mentality the finger. I'd like to think Sid isn't so demanding of everyone around him in part because of some of the guys he's won with...and I think it's entirely possible that part of Mac's personality here is that pressure to win himself. Dude is too good to not even be the best player from his hometown.

Let's be clear here, I'm under no expectation that I'd be friends with everyone on the team I root for, never mind one I'd play for. The problem is that when you set a hard line and start making demands and throwing out 'tough love' for mistakes. Adding unnecessary pressure to a high-pressure job is more often going to result in the boiler blowing out than a more efficient burn.

I think players being more aware of what diet and exercise is a good thing in general, and I want to hear about guys on my team being hard workers and whatnot. I just also know how I react around people who get zealous about that kind of thing. It's too easy for me to imagine fractures in a locker room like that. We succeeded with Phil because we let Phil be Phil, not because we badgered him into being a completely different player. You can't just let everyone be Phil Kessel and doing their own thing, but you also can't demand that everyone be in the other extreme either. Every team is going to have players of different backgrounds, different personalities, different bodies, different strengths, different weaknesses. Good leaders strike a balance. Bad leaders demand fealty.

Generally speaking this is the kind of conversation that makes you realize just how pointless leadership awards are. Truly the 'best' leaders are the ones that can alter their styles on an individualized basis and understand boundaries...stuff that's a lot harder to find out about than these kinds of antics. Also coming to the realization that Herb Brooks would have been the worst possible coach for someone like me :laugh:

People bring up Jordan all the time but he was the games best player on stacked teams. Could those teams have been a dynasty without him being a jerk? My opinion is yes. My opinion is that players, or people, in general perform better without added pressure. Just let the muscle memory take hold. Are there players that need a push and motivation? Sure. Will yelling at people who miss passes help a team? I have my doubts.
 

Big McLargehuge

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People bring up Jordan all the time but he was the games best player on stacked teams. Could those teams have been a dynasty without him being a jerk? My opinion is yes. My opinion is that players, or people, in general perform better without added pressure. Just let the muscle memory take hold. Are there players that need a push and motivation? Sure. Will yelling at people who miss passes help a team? I have my doubts.

I'll be honest. I hated Jordan as a kid and everything I've learned as an adult makes me feel vindicated for my pettiness :laugh:

I can see some people needing that pressure to reach their heights...but it certainly isn't true for everyone. Easy to say for me, given that stress is the #1 trigger for my autoimmune issues...I may not be a professional athlete, but that doesn't mean I don't have a long history of dealing with these types of 'leaders' in most work environments I've ever been in. It's one of the reasons I walked away from the TV writer path. In a helpful, positive environment I'm not only happier and more productive, but healthier...but as soon as someone comes in with the whip I'm out for the count. Thankfully I don't think too many of MacKinnon's teammates are dealing with autoimmune triggers, but still...
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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So toews might not even be ready for this season but he can go party at a spreader event because of his auto immune issue. Fleury said yes to being there. Jesus.


Boy it sure sounds like Mac must be a fun teammate to be around when the games start going sideways!
Is he different from Crosby? He idolizes Sid and trains and patterns that sort of thing after him.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I'll be honest. I hated Jordan as a kid and everything I've learned as an adult makes me feel vindicated for my pettiness :laugh:

I can see some people needing that pressure to reach their heights...but it certainly isn't true for everyone. Easy to say for me, given that stress is the #1 trigger for my autoimmune issues...I may not be a professional athlete, but that doesn't mean I don't have a long history of dealing with these types of 'leaders' in most work environments I've ever been in. It's one of the reasons I walked away from the TV writer path. In a helpful, positive environment I'm not only happier and more productive, but healthier...but as soon as someone comes in with the whip I'm out for the count. Thankfully I don't think too many of MacKinnon's teammates are dealing with autoimmune triggers, but still...
I hated Jordan as well. Still think he's a pompous :eek::eek::eek::eek:. I grew up a Pippen fan. Back in the day when basketball was ok to watch.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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The thing about leadership groups is that if it's the same it gets stale and needs some outside help which is why this team adds a veteran. Mack will grow as more vets are added that have been around more leaders.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Is he different from Crosby? He idolizes Sid and trains and patterns that sort of thing after him.

I mean I couldn't say... I don't know them. But if what Zadarov is saying is accurate I have a hard time believing Sid pulls the ol Jordan act on his teammates. But hey I guess you never know.

Berating teammates doesn't seem like Sid's thing. But I wouldn't have said it seemed like Mac's thing either til I read all that.
 

Gurglesons

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I mean I couldn't say... I don't know them. But if what Zadarov is saying is accurate I have a hard time believing Sid pulls the ol Jordan act on his teammates. But hey I guess you never know.

Berating teammates doesn't seem like Sid's thing. But I wouldn't have said it seemed like Mac's thing either til I read all that.

Kunitz is on record saying he basically started blocking Sid out because of how much the dude would talk about where he was supposed to be.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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Kunitz is on record saying he basically started blocking Sid out because of how much the dude would talk about where he was supposed to be.

Yeah I mean that just seems like Sid being his usual obsessive self. I dunno... maybe the way Zadarov worded it is just off but it makes Mac sounds more... well... dickish than perfectionist.

Though of course often the two intersect.
 

Peat

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I'll be honest. I hated Jordan as a kid and everything I've learned as an adult makes me feel vindicated for my pettiness :laugh:

I can see some people needing that pressure to reach their heights...but it certainly isn't true for everyone. Easy to say for me, given that stress is the #1 trigger for my autoimmune issues...I may not be a professional athlete, but that doesn't mean I don't have a long history of dealing with these types of 'leaders' in most work environments I've ever been in. It's one of the reasons I walked away from the TV writer path. In a helpful, positive environment I'm not only happier and more productive, but healthier...but as soon as someone comes in with the whip I'm out for the count. Thankfully I don't think too many of MacKinnon's teammates are dealing with autoimmune triggers, but still...

Testify.

My big beef with this is the example it sets.

Look, I've no doubt MacKinnon's style works for some, and that most of the guys in Colorado can live with it, but it's clearly not what has has to happen. But every time the story runs on how some leader in an elite discipline is a jerk to the people he's leading, people latch onto it as "the price of greatness" and start fetishising it and taking it everywhere.

When really it's the rationalisation for putting up with people who are in leadership positions for reasons other than their leadership and need some anger management classes or therapy but are seen as too valuable to call out and risk. If there was some talented AHL callup on Colorado's roster who started doing that in training, he'd get told to wind his neck in double fast. Why? Because nobody's putting up with that from some disposable kid.

Which means they shouldn't put up with it from MacKinnon, but he's talented enough to get away with it it. And so another generation gets told "be a jerk, it's okay, if anyone else can't deal with it they're weak". Not a fan of that. Not a fan at all.

Is he different from Crosby? He idolizes Sid and trains and patterns that sort of thing after him.

If Crosby pulls shit like this, then nobody has ever written it down in public that I've found, and I feel enough has been written about him that we've got to assume if he did it would have been written. Annoying, yes, a dick to play against, yes, but being a jerk to team mates? Not a dickie bird.

And Gurgs can post up every example of Sid being annoying and perfectionist he likes, they're clearly not the same thing as bawling out team mates over a missing pass and shooting pucks at them.
 

Big McLargehuge

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I think Sid holds himself to impossibly high standards. Sid strikes me as the kind of guy who'd go out of his way to make me feel comfortable. Like...creepily so to the point of almost being annoying.
 

Turin

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I think Sid holds himself to impossibly high standards. Sid strikes me as the kind of guy who'd go out of his way to make me feel comfortable. Like...creepily so to the point of almost being annoying.

Reminds me of how he had developed a fear of running when training as a prospect, because it was just him competing against himself and it gave him anxiety to the point of throwing up.
 
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