Around the NHL - Episode XLI

[thinkwild]

I hope it goes well beyond the league. Not just this incident, but the earlier ones we've seen this year (been one hell of a season outing bullies, racists and the like).

The time to get to these young men is when they're still children and adolescents. It's up to the minor hockey coaches, trainers and parents especially to enforces better standards. A lot of this "bro culture" really needs to be taken out of the locker room. We owe it to these kids to develop them into better role models..both their public face AND behind closed doors. Seems too many places are all about conditioning these kids to talk to the press and do the "golly gee whiz good ole Canadian boy" routine in front of the press, but act like hellions when the cameras are off. We need to put an end to that.

That's gonna be a tough job

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That's gonna be a tough job

Good tweet.

But it isn't just the sexist comments. It's the entire attitude of entitlement and arrogance. Treating other humans as lesser than, ad the idea that life is one giant sex party as long as you can shoot a puck on net.

I can't imagine what we're doing to kids who play at the elite levels and live this culture, only to end up flat on their ass at the age of 21 with no education and a completely screwed up view of the world...a world that doesn't give a damn about their past hockey abilities. Without hockey or family contacts to get a job or do anything with their life, what in the world happens to these kids that aren't good enough to make a living as a pro athlete?

 

[Knave]

Youth hockey definitely has a sexism problem especially the higher up you go in terms of house league to competitive. You have a bunch of boys with huge egos, the men in these programs were pretty old school people at least when I was playing (in the mid 2000s) who kind of fit the OK BOOMER type of joke.

Kicking a 4th liner off an NHL team because his private messages got leaked isn't going to change that. I don't really think we'll see that change any time soon.

 

[dumbdick]

And yet, everyone laughs like hell when they play Cards Against Humanity or watch Dave Chapelle's early comedy.

Life is confusing.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

And yet, everyone laughs like hell when they play Cards Against Humanity or watch Dave Chapelle's early comedy.

Life is confusing.

Yes, it’s amazing how the world changed so quickly... God forbid that someone jokingly revert to what they heard as tasteless sarcasm before... they are instantly done for life.

Most in urban settings know now how wrong it is to be misogynistic, but those other kids raised in backwards settings may not.

Public schools here in the city are doing a great job these days. That is amazing to see. Kids even correct their parents now,(in most cultures).

Some people love hunting down those missteps that one may make on social media.

Watching those lives unfold on social media is reminiscent of medieval executions.

 

[dumbdick]

This guy lost a big chunk of his lifetime earnings for having a private conversation among consenting friends who thought it was funny. He had every reason to assume that conversation would stay private and it's not clear that he intended to hurt anyone.

Even if he truly is an asshole, I would say termination and broad public ostracization is pretty heavy handed justice even for these days.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

I probably shouldn't use any kind of words like that but it's stronger than me because I'm pissed. I'm an anti-bully and I bully the bullies. I would never say anything bad about nice people. The thruth is I hate bullies and the other kind of people who ruin other people's life... like I said it's stronger than me. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Talking about Leipsic and his comments about fat girls... One of my greatest female friend is probably around 300 pounds. She is probably one of the greatest person and mother on this planet, so **** *** Leipsic.

I am one of those people who used the word Pejorative Slur long after it’s expiry date - and it probably still slips out sometimes. It’s completely guiltless for me because I am never thinking about people who were once referred to as Pejorative Slured - the current intellectually or developmentally disabled. I’m always thinking of the abled who do stupid shit. When the word was in mainstream use it was neutral and descriptive of those who were, it was only a handy and apt slur for those who weren’t.

Speaking of the banished, Louis C.K. did a bit on the use of the word and the people it applied to in his recently released special, and he made an interesting observation. Back when Pejorative Slured was in mainstream use people who actually were Pejorative Slured were a lot more visible and integrated in our communities. Maybe it’s because our communities were generally different - neighbourhoods were full of actual neighbours, we were all outside a lot more etc., but he’s was generally right. There were two adult Pejorative Slured people in our neighbourhood when I was a kid - a man and a woman - from separate families in the area. They were like giant versions of us little kids and we sought them out. One had a total obsession with comics and would talk about them obsessively. The other would come sliding with us and talk incessantly about the Maritimes. They were fun, and once we were old enough to to think in these terms, they were also interesting humans who taught us a certain kind of empathy. My now adult son certainly didn’t get those particular organic experiences.

I try not to use the word now to avoid offending, but the people who we are avoiding offending are never the disabled, it’s always the abled on their purported behalf. And we’re never actually thinking of them, so it’s a bit ironic.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

This guy lost a big chunk of his lifetime earnings for having a private conversation among consenting friends who thought it was funny. He had every reason to assume that conversation would stay private and it's not clear that he intended to hurt anyone.

Even if he truly is an asshole, I would say termination and broad public ostracization is pretty heavy handed justice even for these days.

As if the Caps could have kept him. Whether or not anybody deserves the consequences in a situation like this is really a moot point. The Caps don’t deserve to have to devote any more than five minutes of intellectual and moral capital to weigh the cost-benefit of carrying the baggage of a self-revealed douche.

I find the most interesting conversation is the one that considers what would have happened if he was a star and not a 4th line league hot potato. Teams get to pretend this was a purely ethical decision, but it almost certainly was not. I mentioned Louis C.K. in my above post, and I always hoped he would find a way back. I thought his initial apology was good enough. But I love 90% of his comedy, so how much of my empathy and moral generosity was selfish? I don’t think I even know myself.

 

[The Lewler]

If we are going to start firing people based off leaked private conversations, it’s basically just offensive thought policing ... lol well good luck to all .

The part that gets me is a disturbing amount of people and Twitterati are unable to offer any kind of grace even after time has passed .

So someone can leak a convo you have now many years down the road and boom doesn’t matter what your whole body of work is , you are done.

I really hope in this case it was the total context of the conversation including referencing coke use that led to this decision .

If you really don’t think men and women refer to sexual partners in deragtory contexts post relationship or hookup then you are in fantasy land .

Men sexually objectify women. It is true whether they verbalize it or not .

I’ve also had plenty of conversations with women I trust where they openly criticize a mans sexual abilities and physical characteristics .

 

[5ive4Fighting]

50 years could pass and my lip is still going to involuntarily curl over anybody who who said, at almost 26 years of age, “I really hope they’re ______ so I can just degrade them”. Empathy is not a finite resource or a zero sum calculation, but some things will stay disgusting forever unless some kind of material change has been demonstrated. Why should time alone confer grace?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

but it seemed like five minutes ago that it was cool to be cruising down Hazeldean road with the windows down, pumping out some NWA in your F-150

Terrible... it's okay. It's different now, right?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Good tweet.

But it isn't just the sexist comments. It's the entire attitude of entitlement and arrogance. Treating other humans as lesser than, ad the idea that life is one giant sex party as long as you can shoot a puck on net.

I can't imagine what we're doing to kids who play at the elite levels and live this culture, only to end up flat on their ass at the age of 21 with no education and a completely screwed up view of the world...a world that doesn't give a damn about their past hockey abilities. Without hockey or family contacts to get a job or do anything with their life, what in the world happens to these kids that aren't good enough to make a living as a pro athlete?

I think it's a mixed bag. Depends a lot on the IQ and personality of the individual. I suspect many of them do okay in life -- they emerge into adulthood with very high levels of self esteem and confidence, two traits that serve you well in most fields. They would also have a certain cache from being former high level hockey players, and that opens a few doors.

On the flip side though there are lots of documented cases of former athletes who's lives are a complete disaster. I remember reading a story a few years back about Joe Barnes, the QB for the Montreal Allouettes when they won the Grey Cup in the 80's ... the reporter had tracked him down back in his home in the states, and he was living in a trailer working as a janitor at an elementary school.

 

[Xspyrit]

I am one of those people who used the word Pejorative Slur long after it’s expiry date - and it probably still slips out sometimes. It’s completely guiltless for me because I am never thinking about people who were once referred to as Pejorative Slur - the current intellectually or developmentally disabled. I’m always thinking of the abled who do stupid shit. When the word was in mainstream use it was neutral and descriptive of those who were, it was only a handy and apt slur for those who weren’t.

Speaking of the banished, Louis C.K. did a bit on the use of the word and the people it applied to in his recently released special, and he made an interesting observation. Back when Pejorative Slur was in mainstream use people who actually were Pejorative Slur were a lot more visible and integrated in our communities. Maybe it’s because our communities were generally different - neighbourhoods were full of actual neighbours, we were all outside a lot more etc., but he’s was generally right. There were two adult Pejorative Slur people in our neighbourhood when I was a kid - a man and a woman - from separate families in the area. They were like giant versions of us little kids and we sought them out. One had a total obsession with comics and would talk about them obsessively. The other would come sliding with us and talk incessantly about the Maritimes. They were fun, and once we were old enough to to think in these terms, they were also interesting humans who taught us a certain kind of empathy. My now adult son certainly didn’t get those particular organic experiences.

I try not to use the word now to avoid offending, but the people who we are avoiding offending are never the disabled, it’s always the abled on their purported behalf. And we’re never actually thinking of them, so it’s a bit ironic.

Exactly, it is Pejorative Slured that they use this word for disabled and handicapped people, it should strictly be used for people who act stupid but not really in the litteral sense, stupid in the sense of being harshly rude and offensive to others.

Just call handicapped people, handicapped?

I also have done a lot "stupid shit" in the past, particularly when we were younger, but it was never with the intention of hurting others. If some of my friends were doing that, I was not following them and I would surely speak about it to them and try to wake up their conscience. But even then, that was not my friends style because if it was, they probably wouldn't have been my friends in the first place. I know I have cut ties with some people over the years, because of the path they have taken and who they became. That dude that now pimp girls in the Favela, I don't really call him a friend anymore.

Anyway, my best friend is lebanese, my wife is half jamaican, I am french-italian with a touch of austrian. I have friends from about every race or culture. Of course, I hate racists people. I have friends who are fat and some who are not, they are my friends equally. Of course, I hate body shamers. Etc.

Anyway, english is not my first langage so my reflex and logic is that word wouldn't be used for the disabled but well, I don't decide. Even in french or spanish there's the same problem so really not much to do.

What word should be used for "people who are not disabled but still act like they were totally Pejorative Slured"? lol

 

[Peptic Balcers]

This guy lost a big chunk of his lifetime earnings for having a private conversation among consenting friends who thought it was funny. He had every reason to assume that conversation would stay private and it's not clear that he intended to hurt anyone.

Even if he truly is an asshole, I would say termination and broad public ostracization is pretty heavy handed justice even for these days.

To be fair, I think he's only missing 1 pay check. So it's not like he's missing out on all $700 00

 

[BondraTime]

Good tweet.

But it isn't just the sexist comments. It's the entire attitude of entitlement and arrogance. Treating other humans as lesser than, ad the idea that life is one giant sex party as long as you can shoot a puck on net.

I can't imagine what we're doing to kids who play at the elite levels and live this culture, only to end up flat on their ass at the age of 21 with no education and a completely screwed up view of the world...a world that doesn't give a damn about their past hockey abilities. Without hockey or family contacts to get a job or do anything with their life, what in the world happens to these kids that aren't good enough to make a living as a pro athlete?

Most have good careers and jobs actually.

I’d imagine those that play at elite levels (CHL, NCAA, etc.) for the most part end up with better careers than the average person. They all get education for free after they are done, or while playing. Likewise with the guys who play at the higher levels of Midget and Jr. A, for the most part, most of these guys are going straight into University or trades at 18.

I think you’re severely overestimating the amount of guys left on their ass at 21, there would be very few, as well as those that would have a severely screwed up view of the world.

 

[Knave]

If we are going to start firing people based off leaked private conversations, it’s basically just offensive thought policing ... lol well good luck to all .

The part that gets me is a disturbing amount of people and Twitterati are unable to offer any kind of grace even after time has passed .

Yeah. And those same people will talk about justice reform. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I'm a big believer in a restorative justice approach and that does require trusting people and that they have learned... which is something Twitter and other social media has a real problem with (despite all their talk of reforming the justice system).

 

[Micklebot]

Most have good careers and jobs actually.

I’d imagine those that play at elite levels (CHL, NCAA, etc.) for the most part end up with better careers than the average person.

I'd believe it, NCAA for sure, you're getting a college education out of it after all. CHL has an scholarship program too so you can get that education afterwards, but while playing they have academic advisors and stuff.

 

[dumbdick]

I really hope in this case it was the total context of the conversation including referencing coke use that led to this decision .

I think i missed that part of the conversation in what i saw. This is a bit more excuseable for the team's decision then.

 

[Larionov]

So right on cue Brett Hull, who has basically become the NHL's drunk uncle, says today that guys always talked like that - they just didn't get caught. As a result, he says the game isn't "fun" anymore.

I've got 24 hours for the over/under on Hull being forced to either walk those comments back, or leave the Blues organization.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I think i missed that part of the conversation in what i saw. This is a bit more excuseable for the team's decision then.

Ya I’m ok with someone talking about doing something illegal and getting fired. Making douchbag comments in a private chat shouldn’t getting you fired. Perhaps it stops you from getting hired on the next go around, but it shouldn’t get you fired from your current job, generally speaking.

 

[SensontheRush]

Yes, it’s amazing how the world changed so quickly... God forbid that someone jokingly revert to what they heard as tasteless sarcasm before... they are instantly done for life.

Most in urban settings know now how wrong it is to be misogynistic, but those other kids raised in backwards settings may not.

Public schools here in the city are doing a great job these days. That is amazing to see. Kids even correct their parents now,(in most cultures).

Some people love hunting down those missteps that one may make on social media.

Watching those lives unfold on social media is reminiscent of medieval executions.

Are you reeeeeeeeeally comparing chuds getting blasted on the internet to murder?

 

[SensontheRush]

So right on cue Brett Hull, who has basically become the NHL's drunk uncle, says today that guys always talked like that - they just didn't get caught. As a result, he says the game isn't "fun" anymore.

I've got 24 hours for the over/under on Hull being forced to either walk those comments back, or leave the Blues organization.

"We can go out after games, we can go to strip clubs, we can go to bars, and we could do whatever we wanted, and it would all be hearsay."

"The fun is gone," he added. "The game is not fun anymore to me."

I didn't realize kids got into Hockey at 3 years old so that they can get wasted and grab p***y after the game.

Brett Hull does have a point that there is now a lack of privacy due to the prevalence of cellphones, but I disagree that players aren't allowed to have fun anymore. Did Giroux get in trouble for doing coke here in Gatineau and smacking a police officers ass? Has any player EVER gotten in trouble for going to a strip club, or getting drunk (when they aren't under curfew *cough Kostitsyn cough*)?

If you aren't a shithead, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yes, it’s amazing how the world changed so quickly... God forbid that someone jokingly revert to what they heard as tasteless sarcasm before... they are instantly done for life.

Most in urban settings know now how wrong it is to be misogynistic, but those other kids raised in backwards settings may not.

Public schools here in the city are doing a great job these days. That is amazing to see. Kids even correct their parents now,(in most cultures).

Some people love hunting down those missteps that one may make on social media.

Watching those lives unfold on social media is reminiscent of medieval executions.

There's a few big differences here...

First of all, if you're going to be in certain professions, whether it's as a PR person, school teacher, athlete or public persona, you are under a different ruleset. And it has pretty much always been that way. Wayne Gretzky as a young hockey player would not step into an elevator alone with a woman for that very reason. School teachers a century ago weren't even allowed to leave their home after dark or go to any kind of bar. Many professionals now are strongly discouraged to have anything other than a professional linkedin social media presence.

And secondly...media. What media you use has a big role to play. You can always hang with your buddies in the man cave and shoot the shit. No one will know the difference. But put that shit in a video, or text form, where it can hang around forever....you're an idiot.

It's not that complicated. It's just that a lot of "little" people want to try and act big online and post things to try and grandstand with the buddies, and it fails spectacularly. It's the modern day equivalent of thinking the boss is gone for the day and acting like a wild child at work, only to have the boss walk in and catch you in the act. It's all about the time and place.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

There's a few big differences here...

First of all, if you're going to be in certain professions, whether it's as a PR person, school teacher, athlete or public persona, you are under a different ruleset. And it has pretty much always been that way. Wayne Gretzky as a young hockey player would not step into an elevator alone with a woman for that very reason. School teachers a century ago weren't even allowed to leave their home after dark or go to any kind of bar. Many professionals now are strongly discouraged to have anything other than a professional linkedin social media presence.

And secondly...media. What media you use has a big role to play. You can always hang with your buddies in the man cave and shoot the shit. No one will know the difference. But put that shit in a video, or text form, where it can hang around forever....you're an idiot.

It's not that complicated. It's just that a lot of "little" people want to try and act big online and post things to try and grandstand with the buddies, and it fails spectacularly. It's the modern day equivalent of thinking the boss is gone for the day and acting like a wild child at work, only to have the boss walk in and catch you in the act. It's all about the time and place.

A private message being hacked is the equivalent of a hanging in the man cave while being secretly recorded, no?

 

[The Lewler]

A private message being hacked is the equivalent of a hanging in the man cave while being secretly recorded, no?

yes that analogy is accurate .