Around The NHL #6 - All About The Teams Not Ours.

[Mosby]

Eh, that's not really true. I don't think they had super high expectations, but I remember being pretty impressed. Didn't they have three or four 30 goal scorers after the off-season settled?

Doesn't make the Coyotes less inept.

Looking at some predictions online ... USA Today had Vegas last with 67 points. Sporting News had them last. TSN had them last.

I mean, they weren't Blue Jackets or Thrashers or Predators bad, but I don't think anyone expected them to be this good this quickly (prior to their first season). Everyone snickered when Bill Foley said they'd win a Cup in their first 5 years. Maybe he was actually serious

Note that I expect Seattle to be just as good. Maybe not Stanley Cup Final in Year 1, but they will be a solid team.

 

[Mosby]

Philly is toast. So it's NYI vs TB and DAL vs VGK.

 

[TheLegend]

The Coyotes best year came with no ownership and a skeleton crew at the helm. Stop making excuses for them.

I’m not.... and our “best year” came when everyone thought we’d be dead last.

Name me how many years this franchise has been actually stable (with a bonafide owner) since it showed up here. Or how many rosters were built with the same process Vegas had to built theirs.

I’ll wait.

Now imagine how many more playoff wins we might have had if we had a Bill Foley beginning back in 1996-97 instead of:

Gluckstern/Burke/Colangelo
Ellman/Moyes/Gretzky
NHL
The Ice Edge Posse
Barroway/Ice Edge
Barroway (Himself)
Meruelo

 

[XX]

Name me how many years this franchise has been actually stable (with a bonafide owner) since it showed up here. Or how many rosters were built with the same process Vegas had to built theirs.

All of the expansion teams that started off worse than the Coyotes (and Vegas) have already surpassed Arizona. Columbus and Nashville have dealt with off ice issues previously. Ellman and Moyes dumped a ton of money into the team for no return because the Coyotes were run like a bad joke. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

Vegas is run like a real team top to bottom, and the other expansion franchises have graduated to the same. The Coyotes haven't been able to manage that despite being around for two decades, even after an arena was built solely for them.

It has little-to-nothing to do with resources, as the Coyotes had their best run with no ownership. All of the cumulative errors this organization has made over twenty years are not all the result of a lack of money. No shit they'd be better off with a Foley class singular owner over that span. A lot of teams would. That's not some grand observation.

It's still pathetic that over that entire span there's been no sustained success and so many objectively bad decisions. These are self inflicted wounds, not systemic. The Coyotes lost that excuse when they got out from under the Suns.

 

[_Del_]

I mean, they weren't Blue Jackets or Thrashers or Predators bad, but I don't think anyone expected them to be this good this quickly (

Having watched those teams struggle (and you forgot the Wild, though they were marginally better) was why they changed the draft rules. I think most predictions were just based on expansion teams historically sucking without regarding the change of rules.I

Again, noone expected a deep playoff run, and they were very impressive, and the Coyotes have been anything but...

 

[TheLegend]

All of the expansion teams that started off worse than the Coyotes (and Vegas) have already surpassed Arizona. Columbus and Nashville have dealt with off ice issues previously. Ellman and Moyes dumped a ton of money into the team for no return because the Coyotes were run like a bad joke. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

Vegas is run like a real team top to bottom, and the other expansion franchises have graduated to the same. The Coyotes haven't been able to manage that despite being around for two decades, even after an arena was built solely for them.

It has little-to-nothing to do with resources, as the Coyotes had their best run with no ownership. All of the cumulative errors this organization has made over twenty years are not all the result of a lack of money. No shit they'd be better off with a Foley class singular owner over that span. A lot of teams would. That's not some grand observation.

It's still pathetic that over that entire span there's been no sustained success and so many objectively bad decisions. These are self inflicted wounds, not systemic. The Coyotes lost that excuse when they got out from under the Suns.

How many of those teams got the same process Vegas did?

How many of those teams you mentioned have had the same soap opera drama as the Coyotes?

And you’re accusing me of making excuses?

The whole comparison of what Vegas has done to the Coyotes or any other team is just message board fodder so guys can try playing smartest dude in the room.

It’s lame.

 

[Mosby]

What about Nashville? They came in two years after Arizona and have had off-ice issues of their own. They are way ahead in playoff wins. And they started from scratch.

 

[XX]

How many of those teams got the same process Vegas did?

How many of those teams you mentioned have had the same soap opera drama as the Coyotes?

And you’re accusing me of making excuses?

This is completely unintelligible.

You started the exchange by making excuses for the Coyotes. I made a long post showing that they don't actually have any excuse to be the way they are over such a long timespan when you really look at it, especially relative to their peers. The teams mentioned are the reason Vegas enjoyed the process that they did. The Coyotes weren't even an expansion team.

At least we now know that a Foley level owner that entire time would have changed things. I would have never come to that conclusion on my own.

The whole comparison of what Vegas has done to the Coyotes or any other team is just message board fodder so guys can try playing smartest dude in the room.

It’s lame.

You sure seemed eager to play the part, what changed? Why is it suddenly lame?

 

[Canis Latrans]

The teams mentioned are the reason Vegas enjoyed the process that they did.

Yes, this quote exactly. The league learned how to get teams off their feet so they become self-reliant and stable after many previous teams really struggled through the easiest windows for them to build markets. Now you can expect the league to vet better owners who can afford to build up a market through building of rinks, marketing the team, affording the ability to pay for good players and staff, as well as the league giving new teams a boost to building a competitive team through the revamped expansion draft. Vegas is certainly benefiting from being a newer team so they have that honeymoon bubble going on, but they're also competitive, so it's ingraining a generation of fans with loyalty. Because of this early success, it's likely that when they are not doing so well that they can at least draw similarly to say Dallas, where the team does enough sales to carry itself until better times and not rely on the league so much.

 

[Jakey53]

I’m not.... and our “best year” came when everyone thought we’d be dead last.

Name me how many years this franchise has been actually stable (with a bonafide owner) since it showed up here. Or how many rosters were built with the same process Vegas had to built theirs.

I’ll wait.

Now imagine how many more playoff wins we might have had if we had a Bill Foley beginning back in 1996-97 instead of:

Gluckstern/Burke/Colangelo
Ellman/Moyes/Gretzky
NHL
The Ice Edge Posse
Barroway/Ice Edge
Barroway (Himself)
Meruelo

That's kind of sad, but laughable at the same time. How the hell did we make it this far?

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Islanders's game 7 masterclass last night, against a Flyers that ran out of juice.

Islanders passing game was fantastic throughout, they play, cycle, are creative here and there, whilst always posing the threat of a Martin or a Clutterbuck coming to work physically on the opposing D.

Then you see Trotz behind the bench, and Lou in the stands.

For a club that was facing some serious uncertainty a few years ago, the arena problems, quite the turn around.

The Islanders Lightning series might be must-watch hockey. The other conference final probably won't be too far.

A great end to the playoffs hopefully!

 

[Jakey53]

Islanders's game 7 masterclass last night, against a Flyers that ran out of juice.

Islanders passing game was fantastic throughout, they play, cycle, are creative here and then, whilst always posing the threat of a Martin a Clutterbuck coming to work physically on the opposing D.

Then you see Trotz behind the bench, and Lou in the stands.

For a club that was facing some serious uncertainty a few years ago, the arena problems, quite the turn around.

The Islanders Lightning series might be must-watch hockey. The other conference final probably won't be too far.

A great end to the playoffs hopefully!

How often have we heard that Lou was to old for the "new" NHL, time has passed him by etc. etc.?

 

[PainForShane]

What I love most about the Islanders is that Martin - Czikikas-Clutterbuck line and how Trotz gives them important minutes. All big guys, all bad skaters, very little traditional skill, all with probably very bad Corsi and Fenwick ratings. Basically the opposite of the teams Dubas and Chayka built that are apparently the face of the new NHL.

But, they lean on opposing teams incl defense and every single shift they throw at least one big, legal hit on the other team. You’ll never see a skill play but these guys bring it every single shift and are extremely tough to play against.

And what do you know maybe it rubs off on the rest of the team. In gm 7 Barzal takes a puck to the side of the head in warmups, then takes Eberle’s accidental stick to the face and stays on the bench and continues to be Matt Brazil next time he’s on the ice. Yes he’s a leader but I imagine he looks up to his own tough guys as well. Inspiration goes both ways

 

[PainForShane]

Looks like Cousins draws in for Reaves today for the Knights. Hope he has a good game and causes many turnovers in the neutral zone

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

The Tampa Bay Lightning, Luke Schenn's Tampa Bay lightning.

Great game last night, but the Isles were knackered. Who knows if they can win this cup but clearly the best managed franchise in the league.

Let's have a look at their roster:

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Only 3 players are from their own first round picks: Vasilevskiy, Hedman, Stamkos. Quite a selection tbh but only 3 players out of 28. And considering that Stamkos is injured, only 2 playing really.

The rest are either 'later in the draft' picks or other teams first round rejects/disappointments.

I find this fascinating. I can't go anywhere near the depth of this, but I guess perhaps they are showing to the rest of the league that there are various ways to build a successful team.

Ha!

 

[PainForShane]

Kucherov was picked at the end of the 2nd round that year -- #58 overall. Nuge went #1 overall, Namestikov was TB's first round pick that year.

If you look at the names that was still a pretty good draft, quite a few stars. 2011 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia

We picked Connor Murphy first round that year, 2nd round Finnish center Alex Ruuttu followed by LW Lucas Lessio (all before Kucherov). Honestly never heard of Ruuttu or Lessio, after looking them up looks like Ruuttu never played in the NHL and Lessio had ~40 games for us. If only Kucherov.

Draft picks matter but only if we effectively use them, hope the next GM is a better judge of talent than Maloney or Chayka were

 

[XX]

We picked Connor Murphy first round that year, 2nd round Finnish center Alex Ruuttu followed by LW Lucas Lessio (all before Kucherov). Honestly never heard of Ruuttu or Lessio, after looking them up looks like Ruuttu never played in the NHL and Lessio had ~40 games for us. If only Kucherov.

It gets better, because Alex was the son of Christian Ruuttu, the Coyotes head of euro scouting (and likely only full time euro scout at the time). Even he didn't want his son drafted that high but Maloney was flying in the blind. The Coyotes then went on to draft 3 very, very limited upside players like Ruopp, Kessy, and Dziurzynski. An embarrassing draft, really. Even Murphy was a bloodline pick (that turned out okay).

Chayka had the team taking late rounders like Garland, Bergkvist, and Kirk. Guys that have at least a shot at being something useful at the NHL level. It's night and day.

Tim Bernhardt would always telegraph the Coyotes pick to Craig Button. They had a symbiotic relationship. I don't want him back. He hasn't even taken a scouting job with someone so I think some other teams feel the same.

 

[Mosby]

I believe Tim Bernhardt has happily retired.

That aside, his work in the later rounds is negated by his failure in the opening round, both in Arizona and Dallas. Brendan Perlini, Nick Merkley, Scott Glennie, off the top of my head.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Congrats to Sean Couturier for his Selke Trophy: first Arizona-born NHL player to win a trophy, right? I'm old enough to remember his father, Sylvain, playing at the Coliseum.

 

[DoanStopBelievin]

Inject those dejected Golden Knights players’ facial expressions right into my veins

 

[Jamieh]

Inject those dejected Golden Knights players’ facial expressions right into my veins

I did feel for the kid in the penalty box but I am not a Knight's fan.

 

[87turbobuick]

The final 4 teams all have big players who hit, something out team lacks. Any team but Vegas is my mantra.

 

[rt]

Washington hires Laviolette. But that’s fine. We’ve got Rick Tocchet.

 

[87turbobuick]

Washington hires Laviolette. But that’s fine. We’ve got Rick Tocchet.

TSN, Sportsnet and all the talking heads love him. I think it is a conspiracy to get the team to relocate to Quebec.