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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Its true. Only about 4 countries in the world even play baseball seriously.

They play it seriously in Asia, the Caribbean and a few South American countries for sure. Not sure that I would put the numbers that low.

Baseball and Hockey are really played on a competitive level probably in a similar fashion in terms of major teams when you look at their World Cup (forget honestly what they call it) versus the hockey world championship.

I mean Kellerman brought in college sports and yeah okay in that case the second largest league is college football if he is including them.

MLS has a ways to go, they are still a quarter of the revenue of the NHL. I think they might eventually catch them and I think MLB will continue to slide backwards though their revenues are still double the NHL as is and more than the NBA. We will have to see. I have gotten over people attacking hockey. I mean Kellerman's specialty is a sport that is dying faster than anything I can think of in Boxing.... So there is that.

I think the thing the NHL has going for it, is they are the best hockey league in the world. When you have that in your backyard it is probably important to the general dynamics of decline, die-hard hockey fans aren't going to pack it in over the product. Soccer is growing in the NA, but a big part of that growth is people tuning into Europe not the domestic league in MLS. Tough to paint a league that was closing in on 5 billion in revenue as a nothing deal, we will have to see what Corona does to some of this. Baseball might take another significant blow like they wipe out their season.
 
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lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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They play it seriously in Asia, the Caribbean and a few South American countries for sure. Not sure that I would put the numbers that low.

I should have said significant sporting countries. Apart from the USA, Mexico, Japan and South Korea, the only countries where baseball isn't a serious minority sport are ones like Panama and Taiwan, with little or no sporting pedigree, and with limited other sports. Ice Hockey is massive in Canada, Russia, Scandinavia, Czech Republic and Slovakia, and is growing in Germany & Switzerland. Most of those countries have major international sporting pedigree and either have big populations or big spending money per capita! MLB certainly has pretty low viewership in global terms.

MLB & NFL are massive in North America, but as global sports are low participation and fairly low audience wise. The NHL needs to become less insular and embrace its potential wider fanbase more (which to be fair, they have started doing). If MLS can drag the standard up to that of the major European Leagues, it will blow all the others out of the water globally.

From a european perspective, its always been amusing that the most popular sports in the USA are the ones that a relatively small number of other countries have more than a passing interest in. Basketball has the potential to grow globally, partly because its more star driven, and is equipment light. It also is the one which the US can claim to be dominant at on a global scale, because global participation is high enough to make it relevant.

Of course the NHL will always be up against in global terms because in countries without a lot of natural ice-rinks, its a fundamentally less accessible sport. I mean, where I grew up, Ice Hockey was simply not available unless you had MONEY.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,957
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I should have said significant sporting countries. Apart from the USA, Mexico, Japan and South Korea, the only countries where baseball isn't a serious minority sport are ones like Panama and Taiwan, with little or no sporting pedigree, and with limited other sports. Ice Hockey is massive in Canada, Russia, Scandinavia, Czech Republic and Slovakia, and is growing in Germany & Switzerland. Most of those countries have major international sporting pedigree and either have big populations or big spending money per capita! MLB certainly has pretty low viewership in global terms.

MLB & NFL are massive in North America, but as global sports are low participation and fairly low audience wise. The NHL needs to become less insular and embrace its potential wider fanbase more (which to be fair, they have started doing). If MLS can drag the standard up to that of the major European Leagues, it will blow all the others out of the water globally.

From a european perspective, its always been amusing that the most popular sports in the USA are the ones that a relatively small number of other countries have more than a passing interest in. Basketball has the potential to grow globally, partly because its more star driven, and is equipment light. It also is the one which the US can claim to be dominant at on a global scale, because global participation is high enough to make it relevant.

Of course the NHL will always be up against in global terms because in countries without a lot of natural ice-rinks, its a fundamentally less accessible sport. I mean, where I grew up, Ice Hockey was simply not available unless you had MONEY.

Unless you only care about the wealthy country aspect.

Baseball is religion in Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico... Venezuela and Colombia have played at very high levels traditionally as well. All of those nations play soccer as well, though some certainly better than others. Canada also generally has some guys in MLB. I think in some of the countries you listed Handball might be as popular if not more popular than hockey. I love it and watch it every Olympics but I doubt many have heard of it over here. Volleyball is huge in several countries, it just you can find this argument in a lot of ways in my opinion.

I don't really expect the NHL to massively overtake some of the domestic leagues in the countries you just named. They aren't the most popular now in terms of several on that list.

I think hockey should do more to promote the game, I for sure agree there. I don't think you really need to tear into other sports to make an argument for hockey, I think it is done all too often frankly. I will even admit I used to do it myself, but that effort has faded. I have stopped watching baseball and basketball almost entirely, I still watch the occasional game but I simply don't have the time to follow them or really enough interest in their product. Football is somewhat easy because it is only at times where I am already off work and the seasons are shorter than the other sports, if only my team wasn't a ******* laughing stock...

If I want to put something on hockey, I think they should make efforts to consolidate their calendar on an international calendar. But that will be tough given the difference in games played. But ultimately that for me is the step you make if you want to court the international audience. It would be challenging, actually they have a chance to do it right now in terms of rethinking that, not that I think they will, but I would welcome that. I will watch hockey before any other sport so I guess I don't care where it falls on the calendar. I think having the league run on the international calendar and freeing people up for World Championships and Olympics would help the league.In particular I think getting to host the World Championships regularly might benefit the NA audience and help the game. I get why some owners don't want that and I will be clear they shouldn't without getting rights to the media and other significant chunks, but that to me is the answer. If they don't want to do it, Fine I am not offended that I follow a less popular sport than some of the others. To me other people are missing out and I am fine with that, the NHL isn't going to force their way above Soccer, F1 or some other sports in a global picture. Heck a huge part of NA hates expansion into Southern markets still and that has unequivocally helped the game and we still have nimrods talking about it like a bad thing every chance they can in certain cities and media outlets.

MLB cleared 9 billion in revenue last year to the NHL claiming 4.5 billion. That is still a pretty significant difference in terms of the bottom lines.
 
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lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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Unless you only care about the wealthy country aspect.

Baseball is religion in Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico... Venezuela and Colombia have played at very high levels traditionally as well. All of those nations play soccer as well, though some certainly better than others. Canada also generally has some guys in MLB. I think in some of the countries you listed Handball might be as popular if not more popular than hockey. I love it and watch it every Olympics but I doubt many have heard of it over here. Volleyball is huge in several countries, it just you can find this argument in a lot of ways in my opinion.

I don't really expect the NHL to massively overtake some of the domestic leagues in the countries you just named. They aren't the most popular now in terms of several on that list.

I think hockey should do more to promote the game, I for sure agree there. I don't think you really need to tear into other sports to make an argument for hockey, I think it is done all too often frankly. I will even admit I used to do it myself, but that effort has faded. I have stopped watching baseball and basketball almost entirely, I still watch the occasional game but I simply don't have the time to follow them or really enough interest in their product. Football is somewhat easy because it is only at times where I am already off work and the seasons are shorter than the other sports, if only my team wasn't a ******* laughing stock...

If I want to put something on hockey, I think they should make efforts to consolidate their calendar on an international calendar. But that will be tough given the difference in games played. But ultimately that for me is the step you make if you want to court the international audience. It would be challenging, actually they have a chance to do it right now in terms of rethinking that, not that I think they will, but I would welcome that. I will watch hockey before any other sport so I guess I don't care where it falls on the calendar. I think having the league run on the international calendar and freeing people up for World Championships and Olympics would help the league.In particular I think getting to host the World Championships regularly might benefit the NA audience and help the game. I get why some owners don't want that and I will be clear they shouldn't without getting rights to the media and other significant chunks, but that to me is the answer. If they don't want to do it, Fine I am not offended that I follow a less popular sport than some of the others. To me other people are missing out and I am fine with that, the NHL isn't going to force their way above Soccer, F1 or some other sports in a global picture. Heck a huge part of NA hates expansion into Southern markets still and that has unequivocally helped the game and we still have nimrods talking about it like a bad thing every chance they can in certain cities and media outlets.

MLB cleared 9 billion in revenue last year to the NHL claiming 4.5 billion. That is still a pretty significant difference in terms of the bottom lines.

Of course MLB is bigger than the NHL. I'd never dispute that. I just think that the NHL has more room for global expansion from its current position. Not to say it will surpass MLB, but it has the potential to get a lot closer in revenue terms. And yes, despite a few wrinkles, expansion has undoubtedly been a good thing. Its questionable how much further it can expand logistically without a tiered system.

I'll confess I do have some antipathy towards baseball. Its origin myths are a pack of lies, and it has long been linked with aspects of US culture I really don't like. In that respect, its sustained status I suspect owes a lot to the popularity of the sport in parts of Latin America...which is of course a good thing for a number of reasons. I think terms like 'world series' and baseball's claims at ubiquitousness when it is very low down the lists of internationally embraces sports irritates me too! I guess its also the simplicity of baseball that bores me. Once you work out the different types of balls a pitcher can throw, I can't find any depth there. The pompous Englishman in me wants to say its Cricket for people too slow to follow the rules! (No I'm NOT being serious)

I guess the comparison I was making is that Ice Hockey tends to be popular in countries with diverse sports cultures and comparative levels of international success at multiple sports. What will be interesting is the future relationship between NHL & KHL. Does the KHL really see itself as a rival league, and can it become one? And is that rivalry fundamentally threatening to the NHL or could it be a positive.

Handball is interesting. Its played in a lot of countries, but in most is a definite minority sport. Even in Germany and Czech republic it lags behind Ice Hockey according to the figures I've seen, but is definitely popular throughout central Europe. For me having grown up on a diet of Football (or soccer if you prefer!) etc, I just can't get into it. But that may be just because I already follow so many other sports, and because there is no affiliation I can find with it.

My love of hockey is funny. Its the one sport I love just for the sport, having never felt any affiliation in my route into it. I didn't know anyone who watched it or played it. I actually first discovered it via the first EA hockey on the megadrive, and then watched the sport of the back of that. I became a red wings fan off the back of the first NHL game - cool logo, colours, amazing international array of player names, which led me to read up about the team and watch more games. My addiction was cemented by seeing a Nordiques game in Quebec a few months later, by which time I was already a fan of the Russians, Swedes and oddly names Canadians in Detroit.

I tried with all the other American sports, but while I can appreciate their skill levels or tactical complexity, my interest always waned. I think the opening up of the NHL to other nationalities was also a big identifier for me. It made it seem like a more international league, and one that was more welcoming for an 'outsider'.

I also have admiration for the basic difficulty of ice-hockey at the top level. Players are doing several difficult things at once while opponents are trying to knock them over. I find that much more compelling than most sports.
 
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Red Stanley

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To the uninitiated viewer, baseball is going to look like a snoozefest of epic proportions. Basketball is not my thing, but at least it's dynamic. Football I can sort of get into, but it's kind of meh with too much down time. Hockey, on the other hand, was love at first sight. That's coming from a person who grew up with soccer and occasionally tennis and the Olympics. I got my dad into hockey, not the other way around lol.
 
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MBH

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To the uninitiated viewer, baseball is going to look like a snoozefest of epic proportions. Basketball is not my thing, but at least it's dynamic. Football I can sort of get into, but it's kind of meh with too much down time. Hockey, on the other hand, was love at first sight. That's coming from a person who grew up with soccer and occasionally tennis and the Olympics. I got my dad into hockey, not the other way around lol.

I loved baseball as a kid.
I really don't understand watching games anymore.
Truth is, even as a kid, I spend half the game game waiting for my favorite players to get up to the plate.
The only time I really love being at ball games is when you have a truly great pitcher on the mound.
I saw Clemens strike out 20 at Tiger Stadium and it was a sight to see.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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I loved baseball as a kid.
I really don't understand watching games anymore.
Truth is, even as a kid, I spend half the game game waiting for my favorite players to get up to the plate.
The only time I really love being at ball games is when you have a truly great pitcher on the mound.
I saw Clemens strike out 20 at Tiger Stadium and it was a sight to see.

Only time I really like baseball is in person with buddies. Have some peanuts and knock back a few cold ones. I still go to the odd minor game down here in Florida since all the teams have their minor league affiliates down here because of spring training. But I can't watch it on tv anymore for a whole game through, even when the Tigers come down and play the Rays, I find it might be on for a bit but I eventually wind up doing something else.
 
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RabidBadger

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Sep 9, 2007
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To the uninitiated viewer, baseball is going to look like a snoozefest of epic proportions. Basketball is not my thing, but at least it's dynamic. Football I can sort of get into, but it's kind of meh with too much down time. Hockey, on the other hand, was love at first sight. That's coming from a person who grew up with soccer and occasionally tennis and the Olympics. I got my dad into hockey, not the other way around lol.

It's a snoozefest on many levels. Velenti brought up the point that Mlb is catering to an attention span that no longer exists. 162 games is absurd, even to someone like me who goes to a fair amount of games. The length of the game itself is an issue too. No wonder ballparks have so many side attractions.

Really the only draw is, like TZE said, being there live or MBH's point that you need intrigue like a pitching duel to keep those 3 hours entertaining. I saw Scherzer strike out the side on 9 pitches which was pretty awesome.
 
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MBH

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Only time I really like baseball is in person with buddies. Have some peanuts and knock back a few cold ones. I still go to the odd minor game down here in Florida since all the teams have their minor league affiliates down here because of spring training. But I can't watch it on tv anymore for a whole game through, even when the Tigers come down and play the Rays, I find it might be on for a bit but I eventually wind up doing something else.

You know when I like baseball?
On the radio in my backyard when I doing work. It's just a nice backdrop.
 
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RabidBadger

Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
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You know when I like baseball?
On the radio in my backyard when I doing work. It's just a nice backdrop.

I do love the Jim Price/Dan Dickerson commentary. You never know what will come out of Price's mouth which ups the entertainment value.
 
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Winger98

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Baseball is my favorite sport to watch in person, and it's not really even close. Hockey is my favorite on television. While I follow the Bears a bit, I don't at all get the fervent support that sport receives. Basketball is something I like having on in the background - something I don't need to see every trip down the court, but I don't mind checking in on once in awhile.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Baseball is my favorite sport to watch in person, and it's not really even close. Hockey is my favorite on television. While I follow the Bears a bit, I don't at all get the fervent support that sport receives. Basketball is something I like having on in the background - something I don't need to see every trip down the court, but I don't mind checking in on once in awhile.

I still prefer the speed and talent of hockey in person as my favorite along with tv.

I do think there is something about going to a baseball game, it is also a lot more impressive in terms of watching the hitting and understanding the spacing. Really almost all sports when you see them in person give you are far greater appreciation of the talent. Really all of them except American football, where I mostly am just impressed by the size of them but you do realize how often they are just kind of looking at the sidelines and whatnot. For those that crush baseball, with a pitching clock they actually move faster now than the NFL...
 

Bench

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While I follow the Bears a bit, I don't at all get the fervent support that sport receives.

Well, I mean, because you've been following the Bears.

giphy.gif
 

MBH

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So, Buffalo is a mess. With them firing their GM and assistant GMs, have to wonder what sort of changes they are looking to make on the ice and how that might benefit Yzerman.

Not sure. They're kind of in a spot where they shouldn't be giving up the kinds of players Detroit would want from them.
They got a couple awful deals in Skinner (7 more years) and Okposo (3 more years).
Eichel is great. But Johansson is a 3C.
None of their top Cs are over 50 percent on faceoffs. Eichel is at 47. Johansson is at 40. Larsson's at 48.

Weird that the Sabres have quite a few high picks who washed out as centers and shifted to wing.
Johansson. Reinhart. Girgensons.
Is Mittlestadt next on that list?


On the other hand, talent-wise, they're not that far away.
They've got a lot of potential in their defense.

The obvious thing they're lacking is a veteran, solid #2 center, like, drumroll please, Ryan O'Reilly.

Their drafting, since 2010, isn't been very good either.
They've missed (Nylander, Mittelsdadt so far) on some top 10 picks and even some of their hits (Reinhart) could have been better (Draisaitl).
They've also floundered on some midround firsts - Grigroeno was a bust. Girgensons has never been that good. Armia made the show, but not in Buffalo.
 
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Winger98

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Not sure. They're kind of in a spot where they shouldn't be giving up the kinds of players Detroit would want from them.
They got a couple awful deals in Skinner (7 more years) and Okposo (3 more years).
Eichel is great. But Johansson is a 3C.
None of their top Cs are over 50 percent on faceoffs. Eichel is at 47. Johansson is at 40. Larsson's at 48.

Weird that the Sabres have quite a few high picks who washed out as centers and shifted to wing.
Johansson. Reinhart. Girgensons.
Is Mittlestadt next on that list?


On the other hand, talent-wise, they're not that far away.
They've got a lot of potential in their defense.

The obvious thing they're lacking is a veteran, solid #2 center, like, drumroll please, Ryan O'Reilly.

Their drafting, since 2010, isn't been very good either.
They've missed (Nylander, Mittelsdadt so far) on some top 10 picks and even some of their hits (Reinhart) could have been better (Draisaitl).
They've also floundered on some midround firsts - Grigroeno was a bust. Girgensons has never been that good. Armia made the show, but not in Buffalo.

O'Reilly sort of forced their hand by making some of his issues public. That trade wouldn't have been so bad if Berglund hadn't walked back to Sweden twenty games into his Buffalo career and if they wouldn't have demanded Tage Thompson over Robert Thomas. Thomas seems like a guy who, in hindsight, would have been ideal for them getting 17 minutes a night behind Eichel.

With a new GM, I'm not sure what their plan is. Are they going to sell off some bits, try to bring in more young talent? Are they going to try to bring in more win now guys? I'd look at pulling Mittlestadt from them, or see what they want for Risto. Would they look to package something to move Okposo (assuming we're not on his NT list)? If they package a 1st with Okposo, I know I'd be listening.

I guess more accurately, from my view point, is that Buffalo is just a poorly run club and I wonder if the Wings can take advantage of it.
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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I'm watching Buffalo with a lot of interest, too

Based on everything that has come out/ has been said by media/ fans, the Pegulas feel like they've been let down by traditional North American hockey minds since they bought the Sabres

They've essentially formed a 4 person leadership group with the two of them + Adams + Kreuger, it will be interesting to watch and see who Kreuger gets, as I don't think too many coaches get much say in terms of pro scouting across the league

Kreuger has coached in the NHL before but obviously he has ties to soccer (football) and isn't a traditional "Old Boy" in terms of being constantly recycled around the NHL on different coaching staffs

Kevyn Adams played in the NHL and comes closer to being an "Old Boy" type, but he isn't a guy who used his connections to bounce around front offices and benches across the league, he seems to have been pretty committed to the Sabres, playing the long game and working his way up in different aspects of managing the admin side of things

The roster is extremely fluid with a lot of UFAs + RFAs up this offseason

Everyone knows they want a 2C, so it will be interesting to see if they are able to leverage a trade or maybe instead go UFA

I think going back to St. Louis and getting Bozak for free might be a nice addition for their middle 6, would definitely increase their faceoff stats, though he isn't the ultimate 2C at this point in his career - maybe they sign Haula as well?

I would consider taking Okposo's contract if they view it as a hindrance, but the sweetener would have to be realllllyyyy nice coming with him
 
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