Around the NHL 2019-2020 | Offseason Edition

[lhsgolf19]

Flyers LOL

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Alright this is getting concerning in terms of AA and Mantha at this point....

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

That Hayes contract is a whopper.

 

[Winger98]

This is why there shouldn't be a single compliance buyout available after whatever labor mess comes up here in the near future. GMs go out and sign these deals, they deserve to be hung by them. Because of how Philly's cap is structured they probably won't be hurt by it, but the Hayes deal seems like a clear over pay. the Skinner deal seemed like a clear over pay. GMs deserve whatever they get from these things.

 

[Claypool]

Alright this is getting concerning in terms of AA and Mantha at this point....

Why? Mantha has been "good" and AA had a great season but needs to prove he can do it again. Neither player is getting more than Larkin, currently.

Now if Mantha puts up 80+ points and scores 40+ goals then we can have this discussion.

 

[The Zermanator]

Why? Mantha has been "good" and AA had a great season but needs to prove he can do it again. Neither player is getting more than Larkin, currently.

Now if Mantha puts up 80+ points and scores 40+ goals then we can have this discussion.

Kevin Hayes' career high in goals is 25 and his career high in points is 54. Those 3 are all currently in the same ballpark. I'm not sure i'm too comfortable with the idea of locking up 7M in 6+ year deals for both of them. I mean if they continue to improve and grow into that it's one thing but if they stay as they currently are it would be a disaster. That's basically what Kevin Hayes is so next offseason will be a big one with those two.

And I don't see AA and his agent as the types that would limit themselves because of what Larkin is making.

 

[Claypool]

Kevin Hayes' career high in goals is 25 and his career high in points is 54. Those 3 are all currently in the same ballpark. I'm not sure i'm too comfortable with the idea of locking up 7M in 6+ year deals for both of them. I mean if they continue to improve and grow into that it's one thing but if they stay as they currently are it would be a disaster. That's basically what Kevin Hayes is so next offseason will be a big one with those two.

And I don't see AA and his agent as the types that would limit themselves because of what Larkin is making.

Hayes is a soon-to-be free agent. Mantha and AA are not.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Hayes is a soon-to-be free agent. Mantha and AA are not.

Marner and Point are about to get paid a lot and they’re RFA’s. So.

 

[Claypool]

Marner and Point are about to get paid a lot and they’re RFA’s. So.

And those players have a lot more negotiating power to demand that type of salary. Mantha and AA do not.

 

[The Zermanator]

And those players have a lot more negotiating power to demand that type of salary. Mantha and AA do not.

Mantha and AA will soon have the ability to force their way out of town like we just saw happen with Trouba.

 

[Claypool]

Mantha and AA will soon have the ability to force their way out of town like we just saw happen with Trouba.

Just like every other player in the league? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[The Zermanator]

Just like every other player in the league? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

They are RFAs with 1 year left next offseason. If they feel they’re not being offered what they deserve they can force a 1yr arbitration deal and a ticket out of town. Does that clear it up for you?

 

[Dotter]

I see AA and Mantha expendable. If they think they deserve that kind of money, I say trade them. They are valuable assets... and replaceable.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i think i'd keep one of them. both can score 30 goals or close to it per season and should have around 5 prime years left. we're gonna need those when we are ready to compete. signing one in UFA is more expensive and that player likely has even less prime years left.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

They are RFAs with 1 year left next offseason. If they feel they’re not being offered what they deserve they can force a 1yr arbitration deal and a ticket out of town. Does that clear it up for you?

I think everyone understand what you are getting at, but what other people are saying is this isn't a new thing. If you get players with talent you are almost always going to have to deal with them potentially leaving when they start getting close to free agency. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[The Zermanator]

I think everyone understand what you are getting at, but what other people are saying is this isn't a new thing. If you get players with talent you are almost always going to have to deal with them potentially leaving when they start getting close to free agency. It's the nature of the beast.

That's perfectly fine. But it's going to be the fact that they're demanding such high amounts that makes a deal less likely to be reached, not just that they're upcoming free agents. So it is a new thing to the extent that it is the direction the market has taken since the last lockout. If a 50 point player was going for 5.5 on a long term deal we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just lock em both up. When a 50 point player is getting 7x7 it's changing things. There seems to be no sacrifice in term or dollars. Max money for max term. Used to be you could get a guy in longer term and sacrifice a bit of the annual cap hit. Our former GM used that little trick a few times with Zetterberg, Franzen, etc. Or you could go high on the dollars but limit the term to 2-3 years. I'd say it's the top 10-12M-level contracts that are skewing the market. RFA like Marner is holding out for 11M+ and suddenly Hayes can get 7M long term, Duchene is going to get 9M+ despite never hitting PPG once. I like these players but come on. This situation is not trending well in terms of us keeping both AA and Mantha long term.

 

[Claypool]

This situation is not trending well in terms of us keeping both AA and Mantha long term.

Again, you're comparing a player entering free agency with player who are still RFAs. They aren't comparable. Stop.

 

[The Zermanator]

Again, you're comparing a player entering free agency with player who are still RFAs. They aren't comparable. Stop.

Nylander and Marner were/are both RFAs and look at the headaches they've cause the Leafs... What part of this don't you understand? If AA and/or Mantha suddenly decide they want 7M long term next offseason or they're going to 1yr arbitration, the org will have to either pony up the money, trade them at greatly diminished value, or risk losing them for nothing. It's really not complicated.

 

[Ezekial]

Nylander and Marner were/are both RFAs and look at the headaches they've cause the Leafs... What part of this don't you understand? If AA and/or Mantha suddenly decide they want 7M long term next offseason or they're going to 1yr arbitration, the org will have to either pony up the money, trade them at greatly diminished value, or risk losing them for nothing. It's really not complicated.

Nylander put up back to back 61 point seasons on his ELC and Marner put up 224 points in 244 games on his ELC. Not the same type of negotiation.

Having said that I agree, AA and Mantha have leverage and Ferris will get AA every nickel he can. It is a concern, but I don't think Stevie Y is going to back up the brinks truck to keep either player if they try to put him in a precarious spot, he won't give a shit.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Nylander put up back to back 61 point seasons on his ELC and Marner put up 224 points in 244 games on his ELC. Not the same type of negotiation.

Having said that I agree, AA and Mantha have leverage and Ferris will get AA every nickel he can. It is a concern, but I don't think Stevie Y is going to back up the brinks truck to keep either player if they try to put him in a precarious spot, he won't give a ****.

In Tampa when Stamkos needed a new deal Yzerman offered him 8.5x8 at the beginning of the summer. Stammer went a year without a contract, negotiating, scrapping for every penny he could get and leveraging the Toronto hype, all the way to the Free Agency interview thing...before signing with Tampa at that very same 8.5. When they asked him if he wished he'd done anything differently he said (I'm not looking up the actual quote) "well yeah, I wish that we'd just signed the contract Steve offered me on day one." or something like that. I have every expectation that Yzerman is going to play chicken with every player that wants more than Stevie is willing to offer, and the man never loses at chicken. He was willing to let his franchise center walk over 2 million AAV (the Toews/Kane comparable at the time).

My bet is that Mantha ends up signing for less than he's worth and marks the start of our team culture of signing team-friendly deals. Larkin already sort of did last summer (I have to eat crow on that one. That deal is a steal even if I don't love it being straight to UFA still). AA on the other hand probably takes it to the wall, and serves as the "I'll trade anyone that doesn't step in line" example. Everyone has always been convinced the Lightning got good deals because of Florida taxes, but coming from Florida I can tell you, the state nickels and dimes you enough to make up for it. They're getting those deals because Yzerman established that culture with Stamkos and no one has been able to change it.

 

[Hammettf2b]

In Tampa when Stamkos needed a new deal Yzerman offered him 8.5x8 at the beginning of the summer. Stammer went a year without a contract, negotiating, scrapping for every penny he could get and leveraging the Toronto hype, all the way to the Free Agency interview thing...before signing with Tampa at that very same 8.5. When they asked him if he wished he'd done anything differently he said (I'm not looking up the actual quote) "well yeah, I wish that we'd just signed the contract Steve offered me on day one." or something like that. I have every expectation that Yzerman is going to play chicken with every player that wants more than Stevie is willing to offer, and the man never loses at chicken. He was willing to let his franchise center walk over 2 million AAV (the Toews/Kane comparable at the time).

My bet is that Mantha ends up signing for less than he's worth and marks the start of our team culture of signing team-friendly deals. Larkin already sort of did last summer (I have to eat crow on that one. That deal is a steal even if I don't love it being straight to UFA still). AA on the other hand probably takes it to the wall, and serves as the "I'll trade anyone that doesn't step in line" example. Everyone has always been convinced the Lightning got good deals because of Florida taxes, but coming from Florida I can tell you, the state nickels and dimes you enough to make up for it. They're getting those deals because Yzerman established that culture with Stamkos and no one has been able to change it.

That would be a breathe of fresh air. I hope you are correct. (not that I have anything that would discount this)

 

[The Zermanator]

Nylander put up back to back 61 point seasons on his ELC and Marner put up 224 points in 244 games on his ELC. Not the same type of negotiation.

Having said that I agree, AA and Mantha have leverage and Ferris will get AA every nickel he can. It is a concern, but I don't think Stevie Y is going to back up the brinks truck to keep either player if they try to put him in a precarious spot, he won't give a ****.

Well yeah obviously the numbers involved will change based on the calibre of player involved. But we face the same risks nevertheless. I hope you're right about Yzerman, but if signing AA long term isn't going to happen due to $$$ I hope he's traded this offseason while he's at peak value.

 

[Bondurant]

Eager for the schedule release on 6/25. Had previously read it was tomorrow. Hoping for a weeknight game in Vegas and a home heavy Christmas week when I'll be back in MI.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

What’s the deal with Puljujärvi?

 

[Ricelund]

What’s the deal with Puljujärvi?

He wants out of EDM.