Around the NHL: 2018-2019 (Part 2) Off-Season Thread, Arbitration Anyone?

[missingmika]

If you’re paid in bonuses it hardly matters.

Yea, but looking through Cap Friendly, there's not many people with signing bonuses except for the elite players and performance bonuses are not that common either.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

If the NHL wants better 5v5 play, they need to go to a wider ice surface.

You are in a minority, wider ice doesn't make hockey more entertaining. There's already not enough hitting in today's NHL, there'd be almost none with a wider rink. The high danger area is the same on both ice dimensions but you're further away from it on a wider rink. Defensemen have more room/opportunity on wide ice to angle puck carriers away from the net. The game is actually slower in Europe.

People generally only watch games on big ice during international competition, so the games are more compelling than an SHL or KHL regular season game since the best players are on international tournament teams.

Craig Ramsay on the big ice, he coached the Slovaks at the Olympics.

“It was a hard game because people would be more than willing to beat you (wide) but now they’re 50 feet from the net instead of 40 and there’s a big difference,” Ramsay said. “The (defencemen) are smart and can push you a little bit wider (and) your angles are not nearly as good and the goaltender now can cut down that angle and it’s not as easy to score as people think.”

 

[Der Jaeger]

You are in a minority, wider ice doesn't make hockey more entertaining. There's already not enough hitting in today's NHL, there'd be almost none with a wider rink. The high danger area is the same on both ice dimensions but you're further away from it on a wider rink. Defensemen have more room/opportunity on wide ice to angle puck carriers away from the net. The game is actually slower in Europe.

People generally only watch games on big ice during international competition, so the games are more compelling than an SHL or KHL regular season game since the best players are on international tournament teams.

Craig Ramsay on the big ice, he coached the Slovaks at the Olympics.

I get what Ramsey’s saying. To do what he’s saying, you need more mobile, skilled defenders. In the SHL, which I watch, the defenders are mobile and the forwards generally aren’t as creative as NHL forwards. I think the wider ice, with NHL forwards, would generate offense. Eg: which defenseman is going to consistently angle Eichel to the boards on wider ice?

 

[Jim Bob]

Yea, but looking through Cap Friendly, there's not many people with signing bonuses except for the elite players and performance bonuses are not that common either.

Most contracts can't include performance bonuses.

Basically, it is just for three types of players: a player on an ELC, a player that is 35+ and on a one year deal, or a 400+ game player who was on IR for 100+ days the prior season and on a one year deal.

(2) Performance Bonuses shall be allowable under this
Agreement only for:

(i) Players with Entry Level SPCs under Article
9 of this Agreement;

(ii) Players aged 35 or older as of June 30 prior
to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective, who
have signed a one-year SPC for that League Year; and

(iii) Players who are "400-plus game Players" for
pension purposes, and who: (i) in the last year of their most
recent SPC, spent 100 days or more on the Injured Reserve
List; and (ii) have signed a one-year SPC for the current or
upcoming League Year.

As to paragraphs (C)(2)(ii) and (C)(2)(iii), such Players are not limited in
the length of an SPC they may sign (except pursuant to Section
50.8(b)(iv)), but in the event any such Player signs an SPC with a term of
longer than one (1) year, the SPC shall not be permitted to contain
Performance Bonuses.

No Players other than those falling into one of the above-numerated
categories set forth in this paragraph (C)(2) shall be permitted to receive
Performance Bonuses of any kind.

 

[tsujimoto74]

The players are still paying state taxes in states they play in. If you play in a non-tac state, the other half of your games could still be subject to state income tax depending on where you play.
Plus players in states where they pay tax, typically get tax credits for taxes paid to other states, which you don't get if you're in a non-tac state.

Again, there's no such thing as a non-tax state. There are states with income tax and states without; in states without, you're still paying tax somewhere else, be it property tax, sales tax, estate/wealth transfer tax, etc. Tennessee, e.g., has the highest sales tax rate in the country. It's getting its revenue.

Your point about the pro rata tax split based on where the income was earned doesn't really strike against my argument -- that the tax disparity isn't anywhere near what it's made out to be. You only get 41 home games, so that's 41 where you could be subject to income tax even if you play for a team in a no income tax state. None of that would be deductible for those players, because you can only deduct either state sales or income tax, not both; in turn, that helps even out the playing field come federal return time when players in income tax states get to deduct higher amounts.

The TCJA's ceiling on state tax deductions does change things a bit, but it obviously couldn't have impacted signings like Stamkos that happened before December 2017. Even then, the players with the most at stake (the very high earners)--assuming they have brains--are likely employing tax accountants/attorneys to help them tax plan and enter tax-favored transactions to reduce their liabilities and limit the effect of some of the TCJA's less favorable changes.

 

[sabrebuild]

I get what Ramsey’s saying. To do what he’s saying, you need more mobile, skilled defenders. In the SHL, which I watch, the defenders are mobile and the forwards generally aren’t as creative as NHL forwards. I think the wider ice, with NHL forwards, would generate offense. Eg: which defenseman is going to consistently angle Eichel to the boards on wider ice?

A lot of guys would angle him, and it would be smart for him to take the space given.

The bigger ice, imo, often turns the game into a soccer match, more possession and buildup, less breakdowns and chances.

 

[Reddawg]

A lot of guys would angle him, and it would be smart for him to take the space given.

The bigger ice, imo, often turns the game into a soccer match, more possession and buildup, less breakdowns and chances.

We should just make the nets a little bigger and be done with it. The fact that the nets are still the same size even though goalie size and equipment has gone up like 50% since the 90's is silly.

 

[Der Jaeger]

A lot of guys would angle him, and it would be smart for him to take the space given.

The bigger ice, imo, often turns the game into a soccer match, more possession and buildup, less breakdowns and chances.

I lot a watch of SHL and I don't see the slow down. I see easier zone entries because systems which line up across the blue line are less effective.

I think a larger ice sheet in the NHL could turn back the clock to the 1980s. The bigger guys who muck it up are still there. But the skilled players are more effective. We'd see more 5v5 scoring, and the 10 point mark wouldn't be only for the elite players. You'd see McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, etc pushing higher. High D like Dahlin, Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, would also see a significant bump, as their rushes would get more room to skate.

 

[Der Jaeger]

We should just make the nets a little bigger and be done with it. The fact that the nets are still the same size even though goalie size and equipment has gone up like 50% since the 90's is silly.

As a goalie, I disagree. The bigger net would get countered by alternate hold positions for the gloves. I can take away 6 inches of the top of the net simply by moving my gloves 2 inches down in my stance and out in front of me more.

 

[Reddawg]

As a goalie, I disagree. The bigger net would get countered by alternate hold positions for the gloves. I can take away 6 inches of the top of the net simply by moving my gloves 2 inches down in my stance and out in front of me more.

As a former goalie, I agree with you, but at the same time many of the good scoring chances that happen in the league happen because teams get the goalie moving around the crease. More surface area to cover on the fly will ultimately result in more scoring.

 

[Der Jaeger]

As a former goalie, I agree with you, but at the same time many of the good scoring chances that happen in the league happen because teams get the goalie moving around the crease. More surface area to cover on the fly will ultimately result in more scoring.

The counter won't be the goalie. Teams will do what the Bruins did to the Canucks. They clogged the center of the ice and let Vancouver shoot all day from the perimeter. Thomas made lots of saves but many were easy.

 

[Icicle]

Again, there's no such thing as a non-tax state. There are states with income tax and states without; in states without, you're still paying tax somewhere else, be it property tax, sales tax, estate/wealth transfer tax, etc. Tennessee, e.g., has the highest sales tax rate in the country. It's getting its revenue.

Your point about the pro rata tax split based on where the income was earned doesn't really strike against my argument -- that the tax disparity isn't anywhere near what it's made out to be. You only get 41 home games, so that's 41 where you could be subject to income tax even if you play for a team in a no income tax state. None of that would be deductible for those players, because you can only deduct either state sales or income tax, not both; in turn, that helps even out the playing field come federal return time when players in income tax states get to deduct higher amounts.

The TCJA's ceiling on state tax deductions does change things a bit, but it obviously couldn't have impacted signings like Stamkos that happened before December 2017. Even then, the players with the most at stake (the very high earners)--assuming they have brains--are likely employing tax accountants/attorneys to help them tax plan and enter tax-favored transactions to reduce their liabilities and limit the effect of some of the TCJA's less favorable changes.

If you get paid 90% of your contract monies on July 1st, then where you are throughout the season has minimal impact.

 

[tsujimoto74]

If you get paid 90% of your contract monies on July 1st, then where you are throughout the season has minimal impact.

True, but that applies to very few players throughout the league.

 

[sabrebuild]

I lot a watch of SHL and I don't see the slow down. I see easier zone entries because systems which line up across the blue line are less effective.

I think a larger ice sheet in the NHL could turn back the clock to the 1980s. The bigger guys who muck it up are still there. But the skilled players are more effective. We'd see more 5v5 scoring, and the 10 point mark wouldn't be only for the elite players. You'd see McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, etc pushing higher. High D like Dahlin, Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, would also see a significant bump, as their rushes would get more room to skate.

Perhaps. I certainly wouldn’t oppose it.

 

[Icicle]

True, but that applies to very few players throughout the league.

An increasing number of them.

 

[GameMisconduct]

An increasing number of them.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that being discussed in the next CBA.

The flip side is that at least some of these guys that have taken their money in a lump sum have done so in higher tax states (e.g. ROR). I know the reason cited has been insulation against a with stoppage, but the tax difference means it comes at a price. It's an interesting calculus.

 

[Reddawg]

An increasing number of them.

It's definitely getting more popular, especially as we approach another lockout.

 

[SundherDome]

God, August is boring as f***

 

[Jim Bob]

God, August is boring as ****

Hey, at least we had the Skinner trade.

That is one more trade than the entire NHL made in August 2017.

 

[jc17]

Hey, at least we had the Skinner trade.

That is one more trade than the entire NHL made in August 2017.

Which is why August is so boring.

Not that pre-season hockey is ever great but I'm at least looking forward to being able to watch Dahlin and some of these other new prospects in a couple weeks. The prospect challenge might be interesting but not as good of a barometer.

 

[joshjull]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[enthusiast]

yeah, I'll take that bet, Wysh

 

[sabrebuild]

yeah, I'll take that bet, Wysh

100/1 on Barkov is a great deal.

 

[enthusiast]

He's def skilled enough but I hesitate to bet on anything decided by the writers lol