Around the League Thread Part II: Final Stretch

[kingsboy11]

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f*** the Knights

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[YP44]

I feel like Hamilton will be a Blackhawk and Eichel a Duck come puck drop next season

 

[DryIslandBartender]

@KingsFan7824

So he was comfortable here? Kind of what DL didn't want though. That was a lot of Flyer guys though. Plus Sutter later on. Plus another guy from his SJ days, whatever his name was. That's a lot of BLuc level nepotism. I guess if you bring guys from a different organization it's a different kind of nepotism at least.

Two different things. DL had a style of hockey he wanted the club to play, certain culture to be established. In order for either of those to happen you have to bring in guys that fit in that plan. Most of them were from Philly but also most of them had successful resumes attached to their names.


As far as Bluc goes, I’m not sure what the plan is with them or what the vision is for the team.

 

[KINGS17]

@KingsFan7824



Two different things. DL had a style of hockey he wanted the club to play, certain culture to be established. In order for either of those to happen you have to bring in guys that fit in that plan. Most of them were from Philly but also most of them had successful resumes attached to their names.


As far as Bluc goes, I’m not sure what the plan is with them or what the vision is for the team.

The plan is, there is no plan. We are back to seeing the same type of leadership the Kings had prior to the arrival of Lombardi.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Notes from LA Kings State Of The Franchise - LA Kings Insider

Lastly, building off of the theme of adding to the team, Blake discussed the natural next step in the plan. The Kings have established the base and have been competitive so far this season. Heading into next season, it should just be a refresher course to get the base back, and then it’s about building and taking that next step. He said they will be looking at roster construction, and ways to improve upon what is currently in place.

I guess some people haven't been paying attention.

Now the hard part is seeing the plan be executed. Did you guys know what the plan was when Dan Cloutier was acquired and extended, or when the Kings were signing guys like Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau the same season they went on to win the Cup?

Or maybe you can explain the plan behind the Devin Setoguchi signing and the return of Teddy Purcell due to the fact that the team had absolutely no forwards in the pipeline who can step into NHL roles.

 

[Herby]

Notes from LA Kings State Of The Franchise - LA Kings Insider


I guess some people haven't been paying attention.

Now the hard part is seeing the plan be executed. Did you guys know what the plan was when Dan Cloutier was acquired and extended, or when the Kings were signing guys like Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau the same season they went on to win the Cup?

Or maybe you can explain the plan behind the Devin Setoguchi signing and the return of Teddy Purcell due to the fact that the team had absolutely no forwards in the pipeline who can step into NHL roles.

I think Lombardi had a plan, I think he significantly neglected parts of the roster, but he had a plan and a vision for what type of roster he wanted. Did he get lucky with a lot of things? Sure, Kopitar and Carter are pretty good examples of this. But look at the teams currently playing now, every one had lucky things happen to them.

NYI - The Kings were going to take Barzal if they kept that pick. They end up trading it to Boston who passes on him THREE times. Are the Islanders in the conf finals without Matt Barzal? I'm guessing no.

Montreal - Vegas doesn't want to include Glass who Montreal wanted in Patches trade. Has to settle for Suzuki who not even three years later is their 1st line center. Caufield amazingly falls into their laps at 15 in 2019, less than 2 years later he's a 1st line winger. Is Montreal in the conference finals without those two? Also guessing no.

Vegas - Almost to many things to name. Essentially gifted Theodore, Marchessault, Tuch and Smith.

Tampa - I mean give them credit for drafting I guess. But it's not as if they knew Point for example would be this good. They passed on him three times in that draft. Also the Kucherov loophole this year

Getting back to vision, what is the vision that Blake has for this team? It sure seems like a return to the DT days of just accumulating prospects, throwing them against the wall and hoping something sticks. And I know people get mad at me for saying it, but every single one of Blake's drafts a player taken shortly after the Kings pick has already proven to be a good NHL player and none of his have. Blake's quotes mean very little, it just seems like more cliches, I'd rather see results over cliches myself.

This is a big summer and a big upcoming year for Blake, there has to be some tangible results starting to show through here.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Notes from LA Kings State Of The Franchise - LA Kings Insider


I guess some people haven't been paying attention.

Now the hard part is seeing the plan be executed. Did you guys know what the plan was when Dan Cloutier was acquired and extended, or when the Kings were signing guys like Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau the same season they went on to win the Cup?

Or maybe you can explain the plan behind the Devin Setoguchi signing and the return of Teddy Purcell due to the fact that the team had absolutely no forwards in the pipeline who can step into NHL roles.

We’ll before DL showed up, the Kings had the biggest meltdown in some time in the NHL. Being second in the conference/ or first in the division to falling completely out of the chase. The team had leadership issues, no fight and was just a train wreck.

Nobody really criticizes the Cloutier move because DL had a good track record with goalie development, and Crawford probably influenced that move as well.

It wasn’t a good move but if you look at DL’s history in San Jose and Minnesota as assistant GM. They drafted goalies and developed some good ones like Arthur Irbe (Minnesota North Star pick and later went to San Jose). Jeff Hackett, Kiprusoff, Nabokov, Toskala etc. DL always touted/stated the plan, to build from the back out. He learned that under Jack Ferreira, it was nothing new compared to what he did in Minnesota and San Jose.

The Kings pre-DL, never developed any goalies. Storr was ruined. The most successful goalies were developed under DL with Bernier, Quick, Jones. Zatkoff etc. Now, I’m not sure what the current management is doing.

 

[Herby]

We’ll before DL showed up, the Kings had the biggest meltdown in some time in the NHL. Being second in the conference/ or first in the division to falling completely out of the chase. The team had leadership issues, no fight and was just a train wreck.

Nobody really criticizes the Cloutier move because DL had a good track record with goalie development, and Crawford probably influenced that move as well.

It wasn’t a good move but if you look at DL’s history in San Jose and Minnesota as assistant GM. They drafted goalies and developed some good ones like Arthur Irbe (Minnesota North Star pick and later went to San Jose). Jeff Hackett, Kiprusoff, Nabokov, Toskala etc. DL always touted/stated the plan, to build from the back out. He learned that under Jack Ferreira, it was nothing new compared to what he did in Minnesota and San Jose.

The Kings pre-DL, never developed any goalies. Storr was ruined. The most successful goalies were developed under DL with Bernier, Quick, Jones. Zatkoff etc. Now, I’m not sure what the current management is doing.

Dave Taylor spending a bunch of money on veteran free agents and then trotting out Mathieu Garon and Jason Labarbera as his goaltenders just summed up how clueless he really was. Garon was the most mentally weak goaltender I have ever seen wear a Kings jersey and I am convinced Taylor only brought him in because he had the game of his life vs. the Kings the season before. And then instead of a veteran with NHL experience to hedge his foolish bet on Garon he brings in Laberbera who had 5 games of NHL experience.

The Kings missed the playoffs that year because of goaltending, had they had a competent NHL starter they make the playoffs and DT maybe saves his job. I feel bad sometimes he missed out on the two best players he ever drafted, but the 05-06 season really was about as bad as it gets with mismanagement of a roster.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Notes from LA Kings State Of The Franchise - LA Kings Insider


I guess some people haven't been paying attention.

Now the hard part is seeing the plan be executed. Did you guys know what the plan was when Dan Cloutier was acquired and extended, or when the Kings were signing guys like Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau the same season they went on to win the Cup?

Or maybe you can explain the plan behind the Devin Setoguchi signing and the return of Teddy Purcell due to the fact that the team had absolutely no forwards in the pipeline who can step into NHL roles.

I think anyone paying attention would be rightfully confused about “the plan” from the “brain trust”. As little as 22 months ago, the plan was to be a contender built around the legacy vets. How exactly does being done tearing things down square with build a contending team?

Link to quotes from previous SotF.

We want to build a contending team around the cornerstone pieces that we have in place,” Blake said. “They’ve won before. They took the team, they built it up. They won a championship. Now it’s time they give that leadership back.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We’ll before DL showed up, the Kings had the biggest meltdown in some time in the NHL. Being second in the conference/ or first in the division to falling completely out of the chase. The team had leadership issues, no fight and was just a train wreck.

Nobody really criticizes the Cloutier move because DL had a good track record with goalie development, and Crawford probably influenced that move as well.

It wasn’t a good move but if you look at DL’s history in San Jose and Minnesota as assistant GM. They drafted goalies and developed some good ones like Arthur Irbe (Minnesota North Star pick and later went to San Jose). Jeff Hackett, Kiprusoff, Nabokov, Toskala etc. DL always touted/stated the plan, to build from the back out. He learned that under Jack Ferreira, it was nothing new compared to what he did in Minnesota and San Jose.

The Kings pre-DL, never developed any goalies. Storr was ruined. The most successful goalies were developed under DL with Bernier, Quick, Jones. Zatkoff etc. Now, I’m not sure what the current management is doing.

The goalie development part worked well up Martin Jones came up. After Quick, Bernier, Jones, they ran the well dry and had a rotating cast of backup goalies come and go with the likes of Scrivens, Enroth, Budaj, Zatkoff filling in as backups.

Zatkoff only played in 48 career games, Berube played in 34 career games (all with the Isles and Hawks), and Christopher Gibson appeared in 16 games (with the Isles and Lightning). I wouldn't use those names as shining examples.

So after signing Jones as a free agent, and drafting Jonathan Bernier, the Kings had no success in terms of goalie prospects. They were able to get results from journeymen goaltenders, but nothing came up internally.

This whole goalie plan is greatly exaggerated and turned out to bite them in the ass when they needlessly traded for Ben Bishop in 2017.

Why do you guys think the Kings had no stable backup goalie after Jones was dealt? Was that part of the plan?

 

[All The Kings Men]

Martin Jones played 34 games over two seasons for the Kings and went 4-5-2 in his second season where they missed the playoffs.

I'm certainly not blaming 2014-15 on Martin Jones but his Kings resume isn't what I would call a "stable backup goalie" situation.

It's difficult for a franchise to "develop" or "find" replacements for guys like Kopitar, Doughty or Quick because they're not going to be replaced until there's an obvious and consistent decline in their production. Quick and the Kings won the Jennings in 2017-18 and Petersen was already in the organization at that point. Meanwhile Keumper, Campbell and Petersen all turned in admirable work between the nets.

Jones - 34 games as a King
Campbell - 57 games as a Kings

Never fall in love with a backup goalie.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think anyone paying attention would be rightfully confused about “the plan” from the “brain trust”. As little as 22 months ago, the plan was to be a contender built around the legacy vets. How exactly does being done tearing things down square with build a contending team?

Link to quotes from previous SotF.

That was coming off a season where they finished strong and performed significantly better as a whole versus the garbage we witnessed in 2018-19, so naturally, the team is going to be hopeful in building from that. But as well all know, this group just stopped performing yet again.

An awful start in the first month of the season, they string together a six-game win streak in the second month, and from that point on they couldn't put together consecutive wins until the last month of the season, which ended with a five game losing streak.

Thankfully, they didn't make any big moves before the start of this season because that would've been a waste of assets to try to get this team to improve by a few marginal points in the standings. They made those bridge moves that some of you guys defend Dean Lombardi for making, like bringing in a Maatta or Athanasiou. Is that any different than when they brought in the likes of Brad Stuart and Ladislav Nagy?

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The goalie development part worked well up Martin Jones came up. After Quick, Bernier, Jones, they ran the well dry and had a rotating cast of backup goalies come and go with the likes of Scrivens, Enroth, Budaj, Zatkoff filling in as backups.

Zatkoff only played in 48 career games, Berube played in 34 career games (all with the Isles and Hawks), and Christopher Gibson appeared in 16 games (with the Isles and Lightning). I wouldn't use those names as shining examples.

So after signing Jones as a free agent, and drafting Jonathan Bernier, the Kings had no success in terms of goalie prospects. They were able to get results from journeymen goaltenders, but nothing came up internally.

This whole goalie plan is greatly exaggerated and turned out to bite them in the ass when they needlessly traded for Ben Bishop in 2017.

Why do you guys think the Kings had no stable backup goalie after Jones was dealt? Was that part of the plan?

Quick was playing 60-70 games, plus playoffs. He was very athletic and could handle that load. The backup position wasn’t as big of a deal, so Bernier and later Jones were traded. They were never going to overtake Quick.

Quick relies on his athletic abilities to make saves, like Mike Richter did, and once the injuries pile up. It’s very hard to regain that athleticism, like with Mike Richter. So it wasn’t surprising to me at all that DL traded for Ben Bishop.

It is interesting that people thought it was unnecessary trade yet complain about the backup position or goaltending in general. The backup position was in greater focus BECAUSE of Quicks play.

 

[DoktorJeep]

That was coming off a season where they finished strong and performed significantly better as a whole versus the garbage we witnessed in 2018-19, so naturally, the team is going to be hopeful in building from that. But as well all know, this group just stopped performing yet again.

An awful start in the first month of the season, they string together a six-game win streak in the second month, and from that point on they couldn't put together consecutive wins until the last month of the season, which ended with a five game losing streak.

Thankfully, they didn't make any big moves before the start of this season because that would've been a waste of assets to try to get this team to improve by a few marginal points in the standings. They made those bridge moves that some of you guys defend Dean Lombardi for making, like bringing in a Maatta or Athanasiou. Is that any different than when they brought in the likes of Brad Stuart and Ladislav Nagy?

The quote I linked to was given after the end of the 18/19 season.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The quote I linked to was given after the end of the 18/19 season.

And right off the bat…

“We always use the word, we got to contend — we want to be a contender,” Robitaille said. “To contend, it takes a process. You need to build.”

And that 2019-20 season was viewed as a positive building process. How can you interpret the comments you quoted that the team intends to contend for a playoff spot that very season? Did you miss the “We want to build…” part?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Quick was playing 60-70 games, plus playoffs. He was very athletic and could handle that load. The backup position wasn’t as big of a deal, so Bernier and later Jones were traded. They were never going to overtake Quick.

Quick relies on his athletic abilities to make saves, like Mike Richter did, and once the injuries pile up. It’s very hard to regain that athleticism, like with Mike Richter. So it wasn’t surprising to me at all that DL traded for Ben Bishop.

It is interesting that people thought it was unnecessary trade yet complain about the backup position or goaltending in general. The backup position was in greater focus BECAUSE of Quicks play.

So you agree that they had nothing come up within the system after Martin Jones? Because that is a true statement.

 

[DoktorJeep]

And right off the bat…


And that 2019-20 season was viewed as a positive building process. How can you interpret the comments you quoted that the team intends to contend for a playoff spot that very season? Did you miss the “We want to build…” part?

I think they speak out of both sides of their mouth as convenience dictates to cater to fans with low expectations at best and low IQ in general.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think they speak out of both sides of their mouth as convenience dictates to cater to fans with low expectations at best and low IQ in general.

They definitely have to figure out a way to please fans who can’t read and have terrible reading comprehension skills. Maybe write out the plan in crayon and in easy to read steps.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

So you agree that they had nothing come up within the system after Martin Jones? Because that is a true statement.

Kings acquired Campbell, he just wasn’t anywhere near ready when Quick went down. Ranford was real high on him and went to DL to make a deal for him.

Of course, he’s a starter now in Toronto leading them to the playoffs.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I think they speak out of both sides of their mouth as convenience dictates to cater to fans with low expectations at best and low IQ in general.

It speaks to how well they know the roster and their “plan”, not so much that they cater to the fans.

 

[LAKings88]

https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-ben-bishop-trades-revisited/

An old article but still good summation. I forgot how well Budaj did that year after Quick went down. Should have let him stay. The deal made no sense unless DL had ideas to resign Bishop before he was fired. I think it was a terrible trade. One of DLs worst with hindsight.

 

[KINGS17]

They definitely have to figure out a way to please fans who can’t read and have terrible reading comprehension skills. Maybe write out the plan in crayon and in easy to read steps.

Well, at least Bluc has figured out how to satisfy the condescending asses.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I just find it funny how there are certain fans who need to have their hands held and be given bullet points in order to grasp what the team is attempting to do, as if it isn’t obvious they’re rebuilding and buying time until the young players can take on bigger roles.

Did you guys fail to see that Mikey Anderson and Tobias Bjornfot took on pivotal roles, or the ice time and responsibilities Gabe Vilardi earned? You guys whining about the lack of a plan need this to be explained to you?

They’re going to have their ups and downs with such a young and inexperienced squad, and the team also has a better frame of mind of what they have to work with when the prospects are worked into the lineup.

What else needs to be explained to you guys who fail to comprehend what’s happening? I thought you guys have been around long enough to figure this out yourselves, but I guess not.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I just find it funny how there are certain fans who need to have their hands held and be given bullet points in order to grasp what the team is attempting to do, as if it isn’t obvious they’re rebuilding and buying time until the young players can take on bigger roles.

Did you guys fail to see that Mikey Anderson and Tobias Bjornfot took on pivotal roles, or the ice time and responsibilities Gabe Vilardi earned? You guys whining about the lack of a plan need this to be explained to you?

They’re going to have their ups and downs with such a young and inexperienced squad, and the team also has a better frame of mind of what they have to work with when the prospects are worked into the lineup.

What else needs to be explained to you guys who fail to comprehend what’s happening? I thought you guys have been around long enough to figure this out yourselves, but I guess not.

If the plan is to ease prospects into the lineup while keeping aging, expensive vets, then the plan stinks.

 

[SFKingshomer]

If the plan is to ease prospects into the lineup while keeping aging, expensive vets, then the plan stinks.

What choice do they have? Chicago has done it and are closer to being a playoff team...