Around the League Thread | Conference Final Edition | Go Tanev and Bobby Lu?

[Icebreakers]

I feel like Dallas is getting a similar level of underestimation as the Canucks are, like Vegas and Colorado were supposed to be the real threats of this conference and it seems likely both will be dispatched by the Stars.

I think most people think Dallas is way scarier than Colorado.

This isnt the Avs team that won the cup, they lost a lot of depth and lost arguably one of their top players in Nichushkin.

Dallas won the west and had like 9 players with 50 plus points which is insane..

 

[MS]

what is the knock on necas that carolina would not sign a 25 year old 60 point forward?

He's a soft winger with no intangibles other than speed who is probably asking for $7 million and will get close to that in arbitration.

As we saw when we tried to trade Boeser last year at $6.75 ... teams don't like paying 60-point wingers $6 million+ unless they bring some pretty substantial intangibles to the table.

 

[StickShift]

He's a soft winger with no intangibles other than speed who is probably asking for $7 million and will get close to that in arbitration.

As we saw when we tried to trade Boeser last year at $6.75 ... teams don't like paying 60-point wingers $6 million+ unless they bring some pretty substantial intangibles to the table.

Necas is the Hronek of wingers

 

[thecupismine]

Disagree.

I think that Brind'Amour is squeezing nearly every drop out of a fairly average roster.

The problem is that there are 4 teams in the East (Boston, Florida, TB, NYR) who have both gamebreaking superstar players as well as elite superstar goaltenders. And every year they run up against one of those teams at some point. And every year they play well ... but continually lose low-scoring games because the other team has a goaltending advantage, because they lack the x-factor players to break open low-scoring games and beat those great goalies, and because the other teams do have those players.

Yesterday they played great and should have won but lost because Andersen let in two absolutely crap goals to let NYR back into the game.

Carolina has an incredible, 2011 Canucks style blueline, with league average goaltending and no Sedins or Burrows up front. It's incredible that they were able to keep this blueline together this long, but it's even more baffling that it took this long for them to even attempt to add a gamebreaker up front (Guentzel) when they very much could've won it all at some point over the last 3 years if they had been more aggressive.

I think if you adjust for era Aho and the change in (usually) only running PP1 instead of an even split, Aho is equivalent to Ryan Kesler with similar offensive + possession numbers but not the Selke level defense.

The rest of the forward group is a bunch of very solid middle 6 guys that HAVE to throw the puck on net with reckless abandon to generate offense. There really isn't much gamebreaking skill at the top.

Brindamour's an incredible coach who's gotten everything possible from this group imo, but this roster was 2 players away (even after acquiring Guentzel) from winning it all - a good goalie, and a JT Miller gamebreaking player up front. Changing the style of hockey they play would just expose them even more.

 

[StreetHawk]

He's a soft winger with no intangibles other than speed who is probably asking for $7 million and will get close to that in arbitration.

As we saw when we tried to trade Boeser last year at $6.75 ... teams don't like paying 60-point wingers $6 million+ unless they bring some pretty substantial intangibles to the table.

He has the size to actually battle unlike a Marner and lesser extent Zegras. 6'2 190 something lbs.
But, if he doesnt use it he likely wont at his age.

Lots of 50 point wingers (who have no other meaningful intangible) were getting moved for next to nothing, like a 4/5th rounder or something.

 

[MS]

He has the size to actually battle unlike a Marner and lesser extent Zegras. 6'2 190 something lbs.
But, if he doesnt use it he likely wont at his age.

Lots of 50 point wingers (who have no other meaningful intangible) were getting moved for next to nothing, like a 4/5th rounder or something.

He's basically Oliver Bjorkstrand.

Fans on message boards love these players but NHL GMs do not.

Necas will probably get moved for a Bjorkstrand-type return (3rd and a 4th was that deal) and people will lose their minds about what a bargain some team got.

 

[StreetHawk]

Brindamour's an incredible coach who's gotten everything possible from this group imo, but this roster was 2 players away (even after acquiring Guentzel) from winning it all - a good goalie, and a JT Miller gamebreaking player up front. Changing the style of hockey they play would just expose them even more.

Really no way to get a goalie. Those who hit UFA (Markstrom) are due to them being replaced by someone younger/cheaper. So, you won't be able to get someone who can go toe to toe with Shesh, Vasi or Bob when he's on his game.

 

[Vector]

 

[God]

Chicago would probably jump all over Necas to give Bedard a functional winger.

Selfishly, I hope they also jump on the opportunity to add a gently used Ilya Mikheyev.

really good signing. they still need to massively improve their defense, though.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I think Berube is a nice addition in TO and should be able to handle the egos and personalities there well.

But the roster composition still needs some shaking up before next season.

 

[MS]

Smart choice for Toronto, unfortunately.

 

[bossram]

i think they try to operate team in what they think is the most sustainable way possible so they don't end up in a spot where they spend years trading away draft picks and having to go through the typical rebuild-compete-rebuild-compete cycle because rebiuld in a small market is really tough.

I'm not arguing against their roster/organization composition philosophy. I've been pretty complimentary of that in the past.

I'm specifically talking about their style of on-ice play, that is largely determined by RBA.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i remain unsettled by the way berube stumbled through doing colour analysis in the vegas series. maybe tv is not his thing.

 

[bossram]

Disagree.

I think that Brind'Amour is squeezing nearly every drop out of a fairly average roster.

The problem is that there are 4 teams in the East (Boston, Florida, TB, NYR) who have both gamebreaking superstar players as well as elite superstar goaltenders. And every year they run up against one of those teams at some point. And every year they play well ... but continually lose low-scoring games because the other team has a goaltending advantage, because they lack the x-factor players to break open low-scoring games and beat those great goalies, and because the other teams do have those players.

Yesterday they played great and should have won but lost because Andersen let in two absolutely crap goals to let NYR back into the game.

The direct cause of yesterday's loss was Freddie, but over the series, they deserved to lose because they were not the better team. NYR outplayed them in terms of getting quality chances. Even absent finishing and goaltending, they were outplayed.

I think RBA would squeeze a lot out of an average roster, because his system is conducive to maximizing guys who will work hard even if they are not particularly skilled. This is why guys like Martinook, Noesen, or Chatfield are very effective for them.

But I don't think Carolina's roster is average. I think they have some very good players (Aho, Svechnikov, Guentzel, Necas) whose talent is being somewhat blunted by the confines of their system.

I also don't think man-on-man DZ defense is smart to run when you're playing better teams (as you would in the playoffs). If there is a breakdown, the better teams will pick you apart. In a zone or hybrid scheme, there are still layers of coverage if something goes wrong. Carolina is really the only team that still does this.

 

[bossram]

I'm not an expert in the X's and O's, but I'm not sure what adjustments RBA can make? Their team's identity is one that works hard and shoots from everywhere, will they have more success deviating from that style and do they have the players for it?

Anderson has a .895 save % this playoff and its simply not good enough. It's not just the s% either, it's the timing and the quality he lets in. Like yesterday, he let Kreider jabbed in a loose puck at the side for a pretty weak goal in the 3rd, that deflated the whole team and queue the collapse. Comparing to the guy at the other end of the rink, I'm not sure this is RBA's fault.

I also disagree regarding Panarin. He might not have been playing at his regular season level, but he still have 11 points in the playoff and would've been 2nd on the Canes. He also takes the toughest matchups and allow the Zibanejed line to face easier matchups. Not to mention Panarin is still the key to the Rangers really good PP. You can see how a bad PP can sink a team by looking at the Canes this postseason. The Canes can really use a guy like that.

Maybe RBA is overrated, I'm not sure, but I think he is easily a top 10 coach and he made the most with the roster he is given. To me the blame lies mostly with the GM. Instead of focusing on revenge against the Habs and waste cap and assets on KK, he should've used those assets more efficiently and focus on filling the bigger holes.

I'm not sure. But if they want to keep maxing out at 8 playoff wins, then they should keep doing what they're doing.

Their OZ scheme is to spray-and-pray or shoot-and-retrieve. It's outdated. Their breakout is not much beyond "hack the puck out of the zone and skate after it". They play man-on-man DZ defense. These are all things modern Cup winners don't run anymore. They are pretty successful at it because RBA gets the boys to work hard and dig in. But in the playoffs, everyone is digging in and working hard. They don't have much an advantage there as they would in the regular season.

And I mean, the PP always stinking in the playoffs is partly on the coaching too.

 

[MS]

The direct cause of yesterday's loss was Freddie, but over the series, they deserved to lose because they were not the better team. NYR outplayed them in terms of getting quality chances. Even absent finishing and goaltending, they were outplayed.

I think RBA would squeeze a lot out of an average roster, because his system is conducive to maximizing guys who will work hard even if they are not particularly skilled. This is why guys like Martinook, Noesen, or Chatfield are very effective for them.

But I don't think Carolina's roster is average. I think they have some very good players (Aho, Svechnikov, Guentzel, Necas) whose talent is being somewhat blunted by the confines of their system.

I also don't think man-on-man DZ defense is smart to run when you're playing better teams (as you would in the playoffs). If there is a breakdown, the better teams will pick you apart. In a zone or hybrid scheme, there are still layers of coverage if something goes wrong. Carolina is really the only team that still does this.

It was a VERY even series in terms of chances. NYR had better high-end players and better goaltending. And NYR just flat-out has a better roster top-to-bottom.

I don't think their forwards are underachieving. Guentzel had no problems going there and producing at the same level he did next to Crosby. They just aren't very good offensively.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

He has the size to actually battle unlike a Marner and lesser extent Zegras. 6'2 190 something lbs.
But, if he doesnt use it he likely wont at his age.

Lots of 50 point wingers (who have no other meaningful intangible) were getting moved for next to nothing, like a 4/5th rounder or something.

Is he really just a 50 points winger though? His usage is not optimal to maximize his offensive output. He doesn't get PP1 time, and 5 on 5 he has played anywhere from L2 to L4, with the likes of Staal, Drury, Martinook, KK, Noesen as some of his most common linemates. The fact that he even score 50pts is a testament to his offensive skills.

He never seems like a RBA's favorite (rightly or wrongly), so unlike Jarvis, Necas doesn't get a lot of prime offensive time. I feel like if his new team gives him prime offensive minutes with good players, we will look back and wonder how "the Canes let that guy get away from them?" I think in the right situation, he has point-per-game potential.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I'm not sure. But if they want to keep maxing out at 8 playoff wins, then they should keep doing what they're doing.

Their OZ scheme is to spray-and-pray or shoot-and-retrieve. It's outdated. Their breakout is not much beyond "hack the puck out of the zone and skate after it". They play man-on-man DZ defense. These are all things modern Cup winners don't run anymore. They are pretty successful at it because RBA gets the boys to work hard and dig in. But in the playoffs, everyone is digging in and working hard. They don't have much an advantage there as they would in the regular season.

And I mean, the PP always stinking in the playoffs is partly on the coaching too.

I'm not sure them maxing out at 8 playoff wins is really RBA's fault as much as they are always running into peak Bruins, president trophy winning Rangers, red hot Panthers, or dynasty Lightning. But just even comparing rosters with those other teams, Canes usually goes into the series at a severe disadvantage in terms of offensive talent and goaltending. Coaching can mask some of that but the talent discrepancy is way too steep against those teams.

I'm sure they don't want to play "spray and pray" either, but looking at that roster, especially in seasons past, who do you have setting up plays? Aho and maybe TT? How do they stack up against Panarin/Zibby, Barkov/Tkachuk, Marchand/Pasta or Kuch/Point? Not very well. How does Anderson/Raanta stack up against Shesterkin, Bob, Ullmark/Swayman or Vasi? Also not very well.

Maybe RBA's strategy isn't perfect and he deserves some blame, but I put most of their "failure" on their GM for the roster composition.

 

[bossram]

I'm not sure them maxing out at 8 playoff wins is really RBA's fault as much as they are always running into peak Bruins, president trophy winning Rangers, red hot Panthers, or dynasty Lightning. But just even comparing rosters with those other teams, Canes usually goes into the series at a severe disadvantage in terms of offensive talent and goaltending. Coaching can mask some of that but the talent discrepancy is way too steep against those teams.

I'm sure they don't want to play "spray and pray" either, but looking at that roster, especially in seasons past, who do you have setting up plays? Aho and maybe TT? How do they stack up against Panarin/Zibby, Barkov/Tkachuk, Marchand/Pasta or Kuch/Point? Not very well. How does Anderson/Raanta stack up against Shesterkin, Bob, Ullmark/Swayman or Vasi? Also not very well.

Maybe RBA's strategy isn't perfect and he deserves some blame, but I put most of their "failure" on their GM for the roster composition.

You're gonna play good teams if you want to go deep in the playoffs. It is what it is. You don't get the Islanders for 4 rounds. It's not an excuse.

I don't think there was much of a talent gap with the Rangers. I don't see Aho, Svechnikov, Jarvis, Guentzel, and Necas as less talented than Kreider, Zibanejad, Trochek or Lafreniere. The Carolina group just is somewhat limited by the confines of how they play. They don't have a Panarin-level player, but Panarin was not the difference maker in this series. If their issue this series was getting "goalied" or just lack of finishing, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But it wasn't. They were outplayed. NYR had a higher xG (per SportLogiq) over the series.

And yes, they do in fact want to play this style. It's intentional and unchanged from the whole of RBA's tenure. I don't know how you could conclude the contrary.

 

[mriswith]

Necas is a 50 point winger in the same way that Garland is a 50 point winger. It's deceptively low because it's almost all ES production.

He must want a really dumb contract

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Kelly Sutherland just loses control of a game. Missed a spearing call and a punch to the face after the whistle.

 

[almo8989]

Kelly Sutherland just loses control of a game. Missed a spearing call and a punch to the face after the whistle.

Kinda ironic that Boston gets to taste what it's like to have Sutherland ref a high stakes playoff game. Sutherland is just brutal no matter which team you cheer for.

 

[arttk]

Necas is a 50 point winger in the same way that Garland is a 50 point winger. It's deceptively low because it's almost all ES production.

He must want a really dumb contract

Money is nice

 

[calnuck]

It would be really really funny if Boston did to Florida, what Florida did to them last year

 

[Baby Pettersson]

So he'll be fired in two? It's the Toronto way!