Tidbits: Around the League: NHL News

[AKL]

Where? Zucc is coming back. Fiala, Kap, Greenway, parise (who i wouldnt mind being benched even) Johansson. Thats 6 wingers that can play top 6.

Do you think Parise and Johansson are worth their top 6 spots? For that matter, do you think Bjugstad, Bonino and Rask are worth their top 6 spots?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No room? The only player in our "top 6" with more points than Donato is Kaprizov. Parise is garbage, Johansson hasn't been great. We went out and acquired Bjugstad for a pick, so that entirely offsets.

There was plenty of room for a guy like Donato to get a real chance this year.

We got a 3rd and might have to give a 7th. It’s not entirely offset.

 

[GuerinUp]

Do you think Parise and Johansson are worth their top 6 spots? For that matter, do you think Bjugstad, Bonino and Rask are worth their top 6 spots?

Are you implying he would be playing center? Because otherwise theres zero reason to bring them up.

Even if you bump parise and johansson down, theres still no room with zucc greenway kap and fiala. ITs the same reason zucker was traded....

 

[AKL]

Are you implying he would be playing center? Because otherwise theres zero reason to bring them up.

Even if you bump parise and johansson down, theres still no room with zucc greenway kap and fiala. ITs the same reason zucker was traded....

Parise was almost moved last season. Johansson, Bjugstad, Rask, Bonino, Hartman, could all potentially be gone next season. Sturm, who has been playing LW for the most part, could be moved to C to fill the hole if we moved one of the centers I listed, opening up another spot on the LW. Zuccarello is injured for who knows how long.

So what I am saying is that having an older, worse player is not a good reason to trade a younger, better player for virtually nothing. But beyond that, Staal could have been moved for a draft pick instead of Johansson, Kunin could have been moved for draft picks instead of including a player. Foligno could have been moved instead of re-signed.

This team badly needs offensive players. Our bottom six has been great, in large part due to players that were already here. Our top 6 has been brutal, and it's holding this team back. But if we're going to be bad anyway, it would be better to be bad with young, skilled players like Donato who had shown flashes of skill and offensive ability and had room to improve than with older players who are what they are, and what they are is defensive players.

We got a 3rd and might have to give a 7th. It’s not entirely offset.

Was specifically talking about roster spots, but if you want to consider all aspects, it comes down to whether or not you'd prefer Donato or a 3rd. At this point, I'd take Donato.

 

[GuerinUp]

Parise was almost moved last season. Johansson, Bjugstad, Rask, Bonino, Hartman, could all potentially be gone next season. Sturm, who has been playing LW for the most part, could be moved to C to fill the hole if we moved one of the centers I listed, opening up another spot on the LW. Zuccarello is injured for who knows how long.

So what I am saying is that having an older, worse player is not a good reason to trade a younger, better player for virtually nothing. But beyond that, Staal could have been moved for a draft pick instead of Johansson, Kunin could have been moved for draft picks instead of including a player. Foligno could have been moved instead of re-signed.

This team badly needs offensive players. Our bottom six has been great, in large part due to players that were already here. Our top 6 has been brutal, and it's holding this team back. But if we're going to be bad anyway, it would be better to be bad with young, skilled players like Donato who had shown flashes of skill and offensive ability and had room to improve than with older players who are what they are, and what they are is defensive players.



Was specifically talking about roster spots, but if you want to consider all aspects, it comes down to whether or not you'd prefer Donato or a 3rd. At this point, I'd take Donato.

Then where does boldy play? Simple answer is, donato just didnt fit our long term plans.

 

[AKL]

Then where does boldy play? Simple answer is, donato just didnt fit our long term plans.

Where Boldy plays depends on more factors than giving Donato a real chance. We don't even know what level of player Boldy is going to be in the NHL, let alone worrying about where he fits in his rookie season. Maybe he isn't a top 6 player for his first year. Maybe Parise is gone by then, maybe Zuccarello is gone by then. Foligno could have been moved, Greenway might still be moved in the next couple years. Maybe Fiala and Kaprizov both play RW in the future and we have no top 6 LW's.

Maybe we kept Donato, and still ended up moving him in the next several seasons.

Zucker was "forced out" by Kaprizov. Donato was "forced out" by...Johansson? Sturm? Parise? Do you see the difference?

Having Donato as an option is worth more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[GuerinUp]

Where Boldy plays depends on more factors than giving Donato a real chance. We don't even know what level of player Boldy is going to be in the NHL, let alone worrying about where he fits in his rookie season. Maybe he isn't a top 6 player for his first year. Maybe Parise is gone by then, maybe Zuccarello is gone by then. Foligno could have been moved, Greenway might still be moved in the next couple years. Maybe Fiala and Kaprizov both play RW in the future and we have no top 6 LW's.

Maybe we kept Donato, and still ended up moving him in the next several seasons.

Zucker was "forced out" by Kaprizov. Donato was "forced out" by...Johansson? Sturm? Parise? Do you see the difference?

Having Donato as an option is worth more than a 3rd round pick.

Donato was never "forced out" he never was a full time starter to begin with. Sounds alot more like you just like him as a player, were upset he left even though he wasnt an important piece, and because hes had a fairly good start to the season and some of our players havent, youre pushing this ball alot farther than it needs to go.

and maybe we traded him for a 3rd because there was no room and you gotta let it go

 

[AKL]

Donato was never "forced out" he never was a full time starter to begin with. Sounds alot more like you just like him as a player, were upset he left even though he wasnt an important piece, and because hes had a fairly good start to the season and some of our players havent, youre pushing this ball alot farther than it needs to go.

What? Your whole argument is there was no room for him, you even brought up Zucker being forced out as a comparison. You specifically said he was moved for the same reason Zucker was. How was he not forced out?

In the 2018-19 season, and this 2020-21 season, when he's had top 6 icetime and linemates, he's put up 23 points in 32 games, which is a 59 point pace per 82 games. How is he not a full time starter? How is that type of production given the limited opportunity not worth keeping him around to find out?

and maybe we traded him for a 3rd because there was no room and you gotta let it go

So you're saying he was forced out by a lack of room?

 

[GuerinUp]

What? Your whole argument is there was no room for him, you even brought up Zucker being forced out as a comparison. You specifically said he was moved for the same reason Zucker was. How was he not forced out?

In the 2018-19 season, and this 2020-21 season, when he's had top 6 icetime and linemates, he's put up 23 points in 32 games, which is a 59 point pace per 82 games. How is he not a full time starter? How is that type of production given the limited opportunity not worth keeping him around to find out?



So you're saying he was forced out by a lack of room?

He wasnt forced out, because he was never "In" Hence why he was the 7th forward in alot of games.

try 39 points in 84 games in his entirety in minnesota. No idea where youre cherry picking stats from.

Ill go even further and say he has 64 points in 141 NHL games and is a -13. AGAIN, dont have room. He may have talent. But hes not consistent enough for top 6 here.

 

[AKL]

He wasnt forced out, because he was never "In" Hence why he was the 7th forward in alot of games.

try 39 points in 84 games in his entirety in minnesota. No idea where youre cherry picking stats from.

You have no idea where I'm getting my stats from, even though I very specifically told you where I'm getting them from, or why I'm using them? None at all?

 

[GuerinUp]

You have no idea where I'm getting my stats from, even though I very specifically told you where I'm getting them from, or why I'm using them? None at all?

youre cherry picking to try to prove a point, instead of viewing the player as a whole.

 

[AKL]

youre cherry picking to try to prove a point, instead of viewing the player as a whole.

Oh, so you don't think ice time and linemates matter in terms of productivity?

 

[GuerinUp]

Oh, so you don't think ice time and linemates matter in terms of productivity?

Okay, lets take your cherry picked stats. Greenway more points, same amount of games, JEE more points same amount of games, Kaprizov more points, same amount of games. Youre not putting Fiala on the 3rd line. So AGAIN where is donato going to play

 

[AKL]

Okay, lets take your cherry picked stats. Greenway more points, same amount of games, JEE more points same amount of games, Kaprizov more points, same amount of games. Youre not putting Fiala on the 3rd line. So AGAIN where is donato going to play

On a line with Fiala or Kaprizov...

You named four players out of nine spots and think that's a good argument?

 

[GuerinUp]

On a line with Fiala or Kaprizov...

You named four players out of nine spots and think that's a good argument?

I named 3 wingers and 1 center. zucc is getting the other spot. Theres also not 9 spots on a top 6.... The simple answer is, donatos not here, there wasnt room for him. We have better players. Let it go.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Okay, lets take your cherry picked stats. Greenway more points, same amount of games, JEE more points same amount of games, Kaprizov more points, same amount of games. Youre not putting Fiala on the 3rd line. So AGAIN where is donato going to play

They weren’t cherry picked.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Can’t wait to see the aftermath of all this; some real sketchy stuff going on in the dessert

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

What is 27 year old, right shot center Vincent Trocheck up to these days? What was he traded for again? Haula and a couple of prospects? Interesting.

 

[TaLoN]

What is 27 year old, right shot center Vincent Trocheck up to these days? What was he traded for again? Haula and a couple of prospects? Interesting.

Still can't believe so many around here argued against aquiring him.

Every time there's a center available, nobody wants to pay the price around here, then they blow up elsewhere and people start wondering why couldn't we get them?

Half the boards here were convinced at this time last year he was damaged goods we shouldn't go after.

It was the O'Reilly discussion all over again.

 

[AKL]

Still can't believe so many around here argued against aquiring him.

Every time there's a center available, nobody wants to pay the price around here, then they blow up elsewhere and people start wondering why couldn't we get them?

Half the boards here were convinced at this time last year he was damaged goods we shouldn't go after.

It was the O'Reilly discussion all over again.

I get the sentiment, but I think most people here wanted to go after Trochek, and especially after finding out what it took, most people would have liked to pay the price. It was Guerin that wasn't interested this time.

 

[TaLoN]

I get the sentiment, but I think most people here wanted to go after Trochek, and especially after finding out what it took, most people would have liked to pay the price. It was Guerin that wasn't interested this time.

I guess I just remember the few who argued against it adamantly.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It was a different conversation before it happened, because Florida fans wanted Brodin.

 

[57special]

I guess I just remember the few who argued against it adamantly.

I was less than enthusiastic about Trochek, because he hadn't been good since a severe ankle(?) injury.

Monahan is another guy who gets mentioned as available, but not being worth it. I get that he isn't an inspiring player, but he produces consistently (unlike Trochek), is still pretty young, and is on a nice contract. I think Russo implied that Guerin wasn't interested in him, though.

My thought is that high end #1C's are rarely available, and that we will have to get one through the draft. Some on here are thinking Rossi might be one, but would also love to draft Johnson/Beniers too to get an even better chance at one. After that, things will fall in place. JEE may, or may not be a #2C. Khovanov, maybe. It's certainly easier to trade for a #2C(50 pts.) than a #1(65+ pts.).

 

[GuerinUp]

It was a different conversation before it happened, because Florida fans wanted Brodin.

was trochek for brodin? Man at the time i probably would have done that. this year though brodin has looked like our best defensemen, so part of me is glad that didnt happen.

 

[HotDish]

Can’t wait to see the aftermath of all this; some real sketchy stuff going on in the dessert

if a company ever calls itself a family. That is a massive red flag. That is literally code for treating their employees like crap.