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Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
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Toronto, ON
vanuck said:
If there was a way to check the Monarchs' and Wolves' goal totals at the moment the lockout ended, that would be even more convincing (besides looking it up manually and doing the subtraction, that is).
Click to expand...

12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/20130115030556/http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
 

Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
4,294
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Tiranis said:
The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer Loktionov's team (who he happened to play with) while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
Click to expand...

This is a strawan argument. I never represented that I thought Loktionov was a better offensive player than Schroeder, or even produced more. I merely challenged the contention that Loktionov's production was "significantly worse."

I actually don't recall the bolded. Not to suggest you are wrong or lying, that could very well be the case. I am only going by the statistics I have available to me.
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
23,097
28
Toronto, ON
Hodgy said:
This is a strawan argument. I never represented that I thought Loktionov was a better offensive player than Schroeder, or even produced more. I merely challenged the contention that Loktionov's production was "significantly worse."
Click to expand...

He scored .18GPG while Schroeder scored .3GPG. Schroeder played most of the season with guys who put up less than 10 points at the time of Schroeder's departure. Loktionov spent the season going between the other Top 5 scorers on the Monarchs and never played with anyone else. I would consider that a substantially worse production given that he was drafted in 2008.

(And the whole four months older thing is a pointless argument considering it's mostly about how many seasons of experience you have and Loktionov, given his birthday is in May, would likely have more.)
 
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Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
4,294
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Tiranis said:
He scored .18GPG while Schroeder scored .3GPG. Schroeder played most of the season with guys who put up less than 10 points at the time of Schroeder's departure. Loktionov spent the season going between the other Top 5 scorers on the Monarchs and never played with anyone else. I would consider that a substantially worse production given that he was drafted in 2008.
Click to expand...

Again, you are retroactively qualifying your initial point by now emphasizing goals per game, opposed to points per game, which is generally associated with offensive production. Also again, Schroeder is only 4 months younger than Loktioniv. Moreover, you are delving into reasons why Schroeder's production may have been more impressive than Loktioniv's. Your original contention was a flat-out assertion that Loktioniv's offensive production (which seems to imply a statistic...) was "significantly worse".

But anyway, again, I think it is quite obvious that your original statement was a gross exaggeration.
 

Drop the Sopel

Registered User
May 4, 2007
18,325
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calgary
Tiranis said:
12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/20130115030556/http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
Click to expand...

It's only fair he doesn't point that out if you don't point out the fact Loktionov has had a more productive career than Schroeder at the AHL level up to this point. 24P in 29GP as a rookie, 38P in 53GP as a sophomore and 20P in 32GP last year...
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
23,097
28
Toronto, ON
Hodgy said:
Again, you are retroactively qualifying your initial point by now emphasizing goals per game, opposed to points per game, which is generally associated with offensive production. Also again, Schroeder is only 4 months younger than Loktioniv. Moreover, you are delving into reasons why Schroeder's production may have been more impressive than Loktioniv's. Your original contention was a flat-out assertion that Loktioniv's offensive production (which seems to imply a statistic...) was "significantly worse".

But anyway, again, I think it is quite obvious that your original statement was a gross exaggeration.
Click to expand...

Do I really have to say "given their circumstances"? I also don't see why I have to specifically say that 'production' has to consider goals and not just points. Seemed obvious to me.
 

Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
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Tiranis said:
(And the whole four months older thing is a pointless argument considering it's mostly about how many seasons of experience you have and Loktionov, given his birthday is in May, would likely have more.)
Click to expand...

Is that true? IIRC (thinking back to my minor hockey days) you played with people in the same academic grade with you, which comprised of January-December. Thus, Loktionov and Schroeder (and Hodgson for that matter) would all have played the same amount of years. Of course this is an oversimplification and only relates back to my experience in Vancouver. Russia would likely have a different system.
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
23,097
28
Toronto, ON
Hodgy said:
Is that true? IIRC (thinking back to my minor hockey days) you played with people in the same academic grade with you, which comprised of January-December. Thus, Loktionov and Schroeder (and Hodgson for that matter) would all have played the same amount of years. Of course this is an oversimplification and only relates back to my experience in Vancouver. Russia would likely have a different system.
Click to expand...

Russia goes by academic year. Not sure about the US program, but I think it might too.

Drop the Sopel said:
It's only fair he doesn't point that out if you don't point out the fact Loktionov has had a more productive career than Schroeder at the AHL level up to this point. 24P in 29GP as a rookie, 38P in 53GP as a sophomore and 20P in 32GP last year...
Click to expand...

Seems like an exaggeration, considering 20 points (and measly 5 goals) in 32GP is marginally less than what Schroeder put up this year. That's ignoring that the AHL was far more competitive this year.
 

Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
4,294
4,270
Tiranis said:
Do I really have to say "given their circumstances"? I also don't see why I have to specifically say that 'production' has to consider goals and not just points. Seemed obvious to me.
Click to expand...

This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Are you really now going to maintain that it is "obvious" that "offensive production" refers to GPG opposed to PPG?
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
23,097
28
Toronto, ON
Hodgy said:
This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Are you really now going to maintain that it is "obvious" that "offensive production" refers to GPG opposed to PPG?
Click to expand...

It refers to both, for me anyway. If I had two players that both put up same point totals, I would certainly think the 20 goal scorer was more impressive than the 10 goal scorer.

Anyway, I'm done here. This is getting silly. Clearly we won't ever agree with each other so I think it's best for both of us to move on.
 

arsmaster*

Guest
I bet Loktionov would be lighting it up between Vanek and Pominville.
 
vanuck

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
16,799
4,016
Tiranis said:
12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/20130115030556/http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. Pretty useful actually - thanks for this.
 
LiquidSnake

LiquidSnake

Registered User
Jun 10, 2011
31,513
2
Vancouver, BC
Oh... Here comes Cousin Dregs to talk about his cousin Dave's team and the Kessel rumors.

"Rumor has it that one western conference team has offered 2 franchise forwards, a franchise D and 2 - 1st round picks. The Leafs however are exploring all options and waiting for the best deal."

More or less.... He'll say this.
 
me2

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
LiquidSnake said:
Oh... Here comes Cousin Dregs to talk about his cousin Dave's team and the Kessel rumors.

"Rumor has it that one western conference team has offered 2 franchise forwards, a franchise D and 2 - 1st round picks. The Leafs however are exploring all options and waiting for the best deal."

More or less.... He'll say this.
Click to expand...

"Luongo, Kesler and 2 1sts, Canucks to eat 50% of Luongo's contract"
 
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