Around the League 28: Expect the unexpected

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Navin R Slavin

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Jan 1, 2011
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I get it, I just don't think one player can possibly hope to control or even really influence those things. There are so many moving parts in an NHL game, it would have to be like lottery ticket odds to find yourself in the exact right place at the exact right time in a game you made the exact right prop bet on.

I don't think even referees could pull it off with any consistency, maybe you get lucky a few times a year but not in any predictable manner that made sense for gambling.

A goalie could absolutely throw a game.
 

SoupNazi

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Feb 6, 2010
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A goalie could absolutely throw a game.

Exactly. All it takes is letting in three or four soft goals and most teams aren't going to be able to overcome that.

Additionally, I don't know how deep the betting is on the NHL, but a player could bet on themselves to not score a goal in the game. Pretty easy to ensure that happens.
 

Lempo

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Apparently he would immediately become an UFA and could sign a new contract, or so it was said in the Bogosian case:

Sabres terminate Bogosian’s contract – and now the veteran defender will have options
I would like to alter my answer.

Hactyally, Bogosian did sign a new NHL SPC for $1.3M two days after Sabres had terminated his $5.14M AAV contract, and continues to live a full life as a Stanley Cup Champion:

Zach Bogosian Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
 
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tarheelhockey

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I get it, I just don't think one player can possibly hope to control or even really influence those things. There are so many moving parts in an NHL game, it would have to be like lottery ticket odds to find yourself in the exact right place at the exact right time in a game you made the exact right prop bet on.

I don't think even referees could pull it off with any consistency, maybe you get lucky a few times a year but not in any predictable manner that made sense for gambling.

Depends on what the bet is… bear in mind how much insider info a player is working with. Goalie broke up with his GF and went on a bender the night before the game? Take the opponent to beat the spread. If it’s close, maybe Evander “slips” and turns the puck over with an open net. 2 goal loss, money in the bank.

I’m not saying I believe the accusation, but it’s a viable idea. Hockey is less vulnerable to this than baseball or basketball, but not immune.
 

chaz4hockey

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The team is flatly refusing to allow him to get healthy, I think you have it backwards.

partially true.

team is ok with fusion but doesn’t want him to get the more risky artificial disk surgery.

As I’ve noted on here, I’m an artificial disk replacement patient.

My quality of life is better but I still have enough issues that it impacts my ability to play golf, weight lift, etc.
 

SlavinAway

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partially true.

team is ok with fusion but doesn’t want him to get the more risky artificial disk surgery.

As I’ve noted on here, I’m an artificial disk replacement patient.

My quality of life is better but I still have enough issues that it impacts my ability to play golf, weight lift, etc.

Sorry if it's too personal but I'm curious if it's pain that still limits you or if your doctor flat out recommends you not doing certain activities?

I'm not super well versed in the operation but from all of the comments about MMA fighters and fighter pilots getting it was just wondering.

Edit: I would guess there's also some variation depending on which disk is replaced.
 
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tarheelhockey

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partially true.

team is ok with fusion but doesn’t want him to get the more risky artificial disk surgery.

As I’ve noted on here, I’m an artificial disk replacement patient.

My quality of life is better but I still have enough issues that it impacts my ability to play golf, weight lift, etc.

How does it feel when you play in an NHL game? Better, worse, no difference?
 
Dec 30, 2013
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partially true.

team is ok with fusion but doesn’t want him to get the more risky artificial disc surgery.

As I’ve noted on here, I’m an artificial disk replacement patient.

My quality of life is better but I still have enough issues that it impacts my ability to play golf, weight lift, etc.

Is it actually more risky though?

Have not had either done, but a year into physical therapy my doctor mentioned that we might need to look into surgical options if things didn't improve soon. We had a couple in-depth conversations regarding fusion vs disc replacement (looking back, those conversations were probably moot as I'm guessing insurance would have greatly preferred fusion).

From what I recall, the surgeries had similar risk profiles regarding the actual surgeries, but after surgery artificial disc patients were much happier and usually had significantly fewer issues. Second surgeries were required much more often with patients that had fusion done, and there were long term risks of degeneration of the adjacent discs. Whereas artificial disc replacement patients had shorter recovery times, maintained their mobility, and generally did not need further surgeries.

Not sure if the above would change depending on location of the surgery, my issue was lumbar so what my doc told me may not apply to issues in other areas of the spine.
 

Lempo

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We had a couple in-depth conversations regarding fusion vs disc replacement (looking back, those conversations were probably moot as I'm guessing insurance would have greatly preferred fusion).
This is what they suggest on the mainboard: Sabres' insurance being ok with fusion and not ok with artificial replacement.

It may be that the NHL legal paperwork won't allow them go around it by Eichel paying it partly himself, even if Eichel wanted to cover for it, which obviously is an if.
 
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Chrispy

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Feb 25, 2009
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Is it actually more risky though?

Have not had either done, but a year into physical therapy my doctor mentioned that we might need to look into surgical options if things didn't improve soon. We had a couple in-depth conversations regarding fusion vs disc replacement (looking back, those conversations were probably moot as I'm guessing insurance would have greatly preferred fusion).

From what I recall, the surgeries had similar risk profiles regarding the actual surgeries, but after surgery artificial disc patients were much happier and usually had significantly fewer issues. Second surgeries were required much more often with patients that had fusion done, and there were long term risks of degeneration of the adjacent discs. Whereas artificial disc replacement patients had shorter recovery times, maintained their mobility, and generally did not need further surgeries.

Not sure if the above would change depending on location of the surgery, my issue was lumbar so what my doc told me may not apply to issues in other areas of the spine.

This sounds very similar to the description given by the disc replacement doctor who was on the 31 Thoughts Podcast:

Why Eichel Wants a Disc Replacement | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

I found this to be a good background into the concerns about disc replacement (which is primarily that it hasn't been done in an NHL player yet) and what the doctor sees as the benefits to disc replacement which match up with your recall.

The thing that made me conclude that Buffalo is being overly restrictive here was that his comment was "in about 5% of cases a person would still have discomfort or the disc wouldn't alleviate the symptoms. In that case, the next course of treatment is fusion." OTOH, once you've done fusion you're stuck with it and the long-term effects it may have on adjacent discs. It also has a longer recovery time and a greater chance of not reclaiming full capability because you've reduced range of motion.

Anyway, this one is a good listen and Friedman points out he wanted to do it on a podcast so he didn't mistranslate the medical jargon and just let the medical expert speak for himself. I agree that it would be ideal to get a pro-fusion doctor to speak about that side as well. That said, I think the disc replacement doctor did well explaining what situations disc replacement is better for and when fusion might be a better decision, and why he felt Eichel would be better suited to disc replacement.
 

tarheelhockey

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This sounds very similar to the description given by the disc replacement doctor who was on the 31 Thoughts Podcast:

Why Eichel Wants a Disc Replacement | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

I found this to be a good background into the concerns about disc replacement (which is primarily that it hasn't been done in an NHL player yet) and what the doctor sees as the benefits to disc replacement which match up with your recall.

The thing that made me conclude that Buffalo is being overly restrictive here was that his comment was "in about 5% of cases a person would still have discomfort or the disc wouldn't alleviate the symptoms. In that case, the next course of treatment is fusion." OTOH, once you've done fusion you're stuck with it and the long-term effects it may have on adjacent discs. It also has a longer recovery time and a greater chance of not reclaiming full capability because you've reduced range of motion.

Anyway, this one is a good listen and Friedman points out he wanted to do it on a podcast so he didn't mistranslate the medical jargon and just let the medical expert speak for himself. I agree that it would be ideal to get a pro-fusion doctor to speak about that side as well. That said, I think the disc replacement doctor did well explaining what situations disc replacement is better for and when fusion might be a better decision, and why he felt Eichel would be better suited to disc replacement.


All I know is, if the Sabres manage to break down Eichel and force him to take the fusion option, they BETTER hope that procedure goes perfectly.

Can you even imagine if they go through all that and some fluke causes him to develop complications? The fallout would be insane.
 
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cptjeff

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Sep 18, 2008
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Is it actually more risky though?

Have not had either done, but a year into physical therapy my doctor mentioned that we might need to look into surgical options if things didn't improve soon. We had a couple in-depth conversations regarding fusion vs disc replacement (looking back, those conversations were probably moot as I'm guessing insurance would have greatly preferred fusion).

From what I recall, the surgeries had similar risk profiles regarding the actual surgeries, but after surgery artificial disc patients were much happier and usually had significantly fewer issues. Second surgeries were required much more often with patients that had fusion done, and there were long term risks of degeneration of the adjacent discs. Whereas artificial disc replacement patients had shorter recovery times, maintained their mobility, and generally did not need further surgeries.

Not sure if the above would change depending on location of the surgery, my issue was lumbar so what my doc told me may not apply to issues in other areas of the spine.
And, if disk replacement fails, fusion is still an option, but the reverse is not true at all. Once you do the fusion you're locked in, you will NEVER regain the lost function.
 

cptjeff

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Sep 18, 2008
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partially true.

team is ok with fusion but doesn’t want him to get the more risky artificial disk surgery.

As I’ve noted on here, I’m an artificial disk replacement patient.

My quality of life is better but I still have enough issues that it impacts my ability to play golf, weight lift, etc.

So the team is not okay with the treatment recommended by actual specialists but is okay with a different procedure that no doctors but the ones whose opinions are bought and paid for by the team think is the appropriate treatment?

My statement stands.

Also, what about the basic f***ing ethics of medical consent? It's Eichel's body. He is not a slave owned by the Pegulas. His call, end of discussion.
 
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