Around the League 19: And Down the Stretch They Come...OK, Who Hit the Pause Button?

[bleedgreen]

40 goals are valuable, but that's about the extent of Skinner's value. If he's not scoring 35-40 goals a season, that contract is an albatross. Even Mark Stone, a guy who has only scored 30 goals once is a much more valuable 9 million dollar winger because he actually plays a complete game and is one of the best two-way forwards in the game. Maybe Skinner should at least try to become a more well rounded player when he isn't scoring.

I keep seeing this, it never adds up to the player I watched. I still don’t think I ever saw a player work harder for the puck than Jeff Skinner. He busted his ass off. He just never learned “smarter than harder” in the defensive zone through the neutral zone. He was permanently in “SQUIRREL!!!!!” mode. He’d get pulled out of positioning and get too deep, or he’d get caught puck watching. That isn’t a lack of effort. Few people work harder on their game in the off season than Skinner. There’s no workout for defensive positioning.

Those problems are greatly muted by him playing with a good center. Which worked for half the season last year.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Skinner scored around 30 goals or more several times playing with lesser players than Jack Eichel. You can argue the contract or their evaluation of the player, but they probably wanted to spread out the offense. You'd think (and as I said, in fact, we know) the $9 million man shouldn't need to be stapled to Eichel to score.

Anyways, good luck to Adams. He'll need it.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I keep seeing this, it never adds up to the player I watched. I still don’t think I ever saw a player work harder for the puck than Jeff Skinner. He busted his ass off. He just never learned “smarter than harder” in the defensive zone through the neutral zone. He was permanently in “SQUIRREL!!!!!” mode. He’d get pulled out of positioning and get too deep, or he’d get caught puck watching. That isn’t a lack of effort. Few people work harder on their game in the off season than Skinner. There’s no workout for defensive positioning.

Those problems are greatly muted by him playing with a good center. Which worked for half the season last year.

Except the last year with Peters when he was actively not even pretending to play defense. All the previous years I agree completely with everything you said. He’s bad at it and he isn’t going to just learn better defensive instincts in his late 20s. Its just not his game. Eichel isn’t exactly Mr. Selke himself so that probably contributed to the desire to split them up.

 

[Canes]

I keep seeing this, it never adds up to the player I watched. I still don’t think I ever saw a player work harder for the puck than Jeff Skinner. He busted his ass off. He just never learned “smarter than harder” in the defensive zone through the neutral zone. He was permanently in “SQUIRREL!!!!!” mode. He’d get pulled out of positioning and get too deep, or he’d get caught puck watching. That isn’t a lack of effort. Few people work harder on their game in the off season than Skinner. There’s no workout for defensive positioning.

Those problems are greatly muted by him playing with a good center. Which worked for half the season last year.

Yes, he worked hard for the puck, mostly in the offensive zone but I don't know how many times we saw him just completely get lost coming back covering d-men or trailing forwards, allowing them to have uncontested shots/passes. I don't know whether it's because he just doesn't care or still doesn't get it but it's an area he could easily improve on with the same effort he uses to try to score goals.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Skinner scored around 30 goals or more several times playing with lesser players than Jack Eichel. You can argue the contract or their evaluation of the player, but they probably wanted to spread out the offense. You'd think (and as I said, in fact, we know) the $9 million man shouldn't need to be stapled to Eichel to score.

Anyways, good luck to Adams. He'll need it.

Imagine being Jeff Skinner. Carolina drafts you in 2010,you're going to a team with 3 conference finals and a Cup in the past 8 seasons. Rookie year you become an instant star, the whole world loves you, life is good, it's nothing but blue skies ahead.

Instead, you get the entire timeline of the Karmanos Era decline and implosion. Maurice to Muller to Peters. Good Eric to Bad Eric to the Tri-Captains. Empty buildings, relocation rumors, team for sale. Zero playoff games. And now a used car salesman with a gift for liquidating assets is in charge.

And then you get traded to a team that's really on the rise... Buffalo.

 

[bleedgreen]

Except the last year with Peters when he was actively not even pretending to play defense. All the previous years I agree completely with everything you said. He’s bad at it and he isn’t going to just learn better defensive instincts in his late 20s. Its just not his game. Eichel isn’t exactly Mr. Selke himself so that probably contributed to the desire to split them up.

I didn’t see the last year as bad as you saw it but it’s a fair point as Peters and Skinner had seemingly reached their end together. Overall I agree. Olofsson isn’t a great defensive player either, but maybe he’s better than Skinner was.

 

[Canes]

Imagine being Jeff Skinner. Carolina drafts you in 2010,you're going to a team with 3 conference finals and a Cup in the past 8 seasons. Rookie year you become an instant star, the whole world loves you, life is good, it's nothing but blue skies ahead.

Instead, you get the entire timeline of the Karmanos Era decline and implosion. Maurice to Muller to Peters. Good Eric to Bad Eric to the Tri-Captains. Empty buildings, relocation rumors, team for sale. Zero playoff games. And now a used car salesman with a gift for liquidating assets is in charge.

And then you get traded to a team that's really on the rise... Buffalo.

Can't feel too bad for him. I'm sure competent teams kicked the tires on him but he wanted to be close to home, so he went to Buffalo.

 

[DaveG]

Can't feel too bad for him. I'm sure competent teams kicked the tires on him but he wanted to be close to home, so he went to Buffalo.

Well we know that LA was very interested from that draft alone. But no trade clauses are a thing and you can't blame a guy for exercising his.

 

[sabremike]

Me after watching that fiasco:



f*** off Terry, f*** off Kim.

 

[HisIceness]

Someone on the main board mentioned it last season, the Sabres developed a losing culture when they started selling off players to "tank" for McDavid. We saw how this went for the Oilers who were even more blatantly tanking. The Sabres did get Eichel and a few years later, Dahlin out of their bad years but they're still wandering in the wilderness looking for that light to get out of the tunnel, and Eichel is pissed.

What's ownerships role in this? Pegula had that famous quote when he bought the team in early 2011 that the goal was to win the Cup. Nothing outrageous to say but they've made the playoffs once since he bought them (the very season he did, and they were in a playoff position the day the team was sold to him) and have been bottom 5 more often than not since that one appearance. Pegula also owns the Bills but even in a division w/ Tom Brady they've managed to pull themselves out of the doldrums and look like they could be playoff contenders for years to come, so somethings not quite adding up here. You can argue that Botts botched the ROR trade and overpaid Skinner but all that still goes through ownership who has to approve of such transactions.

We'll see what Adams is made of. Not that the Canes need more competition in a stacked Eastern Conference but I've always liked Adams and he seems like a good guy to help turn a struggling ship around, so I'm rooting for his success. He grew up a Sabres fan too IIRC so I'm sure this job means a lot to him.

As for Skinner, the dude is who he is. A goal scorer w/ a nose for the net but is a liability on defense. I hold no ill will towards him. I thought he played his ass off here most nights except that last season when it was clear he and everyone else was burned out by Peters, Karmanos, and to a lesser extent, Francis. He tried like hell to get this team into the playoffs down the stretch of the 2016-17 season when it looked like the team might actually sneak in unexpectedly, only to come up short again. At that point, it was a matter of time before the two sides went separate ways. I'm sure the Erik Cole comments didn't help matters either.

 

[Lempo]

Well we know that LA was very interested from that draft alone. But no trade clauses are a thing and you can't blame a guy for exercising his.

It's a very special guy who likes losing at home.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

NHL.com did a redraft of 2003 and shockingly they had still have Staal going second.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

bergeron crosby malkin pens goat center depth

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's a very special guy who likes losing at home.

It’s called marriage.

It’s more accepting it than liking it though.

 

[Brock Anton]

At this point, I feel there's a near zero chance Eichel that plays out that contract in Buffalo.

 

[Ole Gil]

NHL.com did a redraft of 2003 and shockingly they had still have Staal going second.

He is #1 in that class in Games played, Points, and Goals, and #2 in points per game, #2 in TOI per game (Forwards). #2 in ppg. #2 in shg.

He's got 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of the draft. The only 100 point season from that draft.

Only 1000+ points guy, and he's still a good hockey player at worst.

 

[vorbis]

good lord what a bloodbath in Buffalo today.

 

[sabremike]

As a token of my appreciation I would like to treat the Pegulas to a free Uber ride from Dany Heatley.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

He is #1 in that class in Games played, Points, and Goals, and #2 in points per game, #2 in TOI per game (Forwards). #2 in ppg. #2 in shg.

He's got 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of the draft. The only 100 point season from that draft.

Only 1000+ points guy, and he's still a good hockey player at worst.

TBF, Bergeron's freakishly good for his age, and still hasn't lost his defensive chops after all these years. Honestly, it's a tough choice between him and Staal for #1 overall redraft.

 

[poobags]

Only members of the Triple Gold Club from this draft going 1 and 2. Makes sense.

EDIT: also how do you even begin to choose between Suter, Weber, and Burns in those three spots.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

He is #1 in that class in Games played, Points, and Goals, and #2 in points per game, #2 in TOI per game (Forwards). #2 in ppg. #2 in shg.

He's got 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of the draft. The only 100 point season from that draft.

Only 1000+ points guy, and he's still a good hockey player at worst.

It's a shame we wasted most of his career.

 

[HisIceness]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2020/06/16/islanders-nassau-coliseum-closing-indefinitely

So it turns out we may get to see one final hurrah of Honky the Honda after all.

 

[BHD]

A contingent of Pens fans suggested he succeed Shero. He was able to manage the cap in Pittsburgh, but he was in over his head in Buffalo. While that's not necessarily his fault, he didn't really improve the team either.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

A contingent of Pens fans suggested he succeed Shero. He was able to manage the cap in Pittsburgh, but he was in over his head in Buffalo. While that's not necessarily his fault, he didn't really improve the team either.

Perhaps Buffalo could use their own "Borg" instead of relying on 1-2 people for GM duties. Maybe, just maybe, the job IS too big for one person, JS.

 

[BHD]

Perhaps Buffalo could use their own "Borg" instead of relying on 1-2 people for GM duties. Maybe, just maybe, the job IS too big for one person, JS.

So, like the Leafs? Not to bring it back to them, but they had the three-headed monster (four if you include Babcock) of Lou/Shanny/Dubas. Maybe that's what the Sabres need.