Around the League '18-'19

Status
Not open for further replies.

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,490
60,934
I.E.
Boy, I definitely wasn't trying to re-ignite that debate. I was just saying that--no matter what the reason--more than one poster called their shot on a few things and they were right. The opposite reasoning is also defensible. It's not black and white. And I was only pointing it out because of that necessary context, as that context is important for those discussions of other GMs as well--they're not infallible. DL was amazing until he wasn't, but at least he won before being deified.

Luckily this board--unlike many others--doesn't have the same lovefest for Chayka. yzerman and co have earned SOME praise--Chayka hasn't done shit.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,230
14,975
Mullett Lake, MI
Speaking of bad luck, I do wonder how much was known behind the scenes that this Richards was having off ice issues. For someone who is known for doing his due diligence and over analyzing things, you’d think Lombardi would’ve been well informed on such matters.

I thought it was a disgusting act (and said so on the main board) but when Burrows pulled the stunt he did I think it let you know that it was a pretty open secret that he probably had a pretty big problem, and the entire league knew.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
63,046
34,005
Parts Unknown
I thought it was a disgusting act (and said so on the main board) but when Burrows pulled the stunt he did I think it let you know that it was a pretty open secret that he probably had a pretty big problem, and the entire league knew.

Yeah, I thought about that as well, plus all the stuff that went down in Philly. Lombardi must have known. All that said, still do think he helped the team on the way to two Cups, but by 2014, his career was done. His performance in 2014-15, his last season here, was just embarrassing and painful to watch. His play was already on the decline the year before, but by that point, it had fallen off of a cliff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

TruKingFan

Two-Time Cup Winner
Aug 16, 2004
1,294
838
Beachfront
Not a defense of Yzerman, but I feel the Cup wins are ancient history at this point and banging that drum in light of one playoff game victory in the four years since is a tough sell.

We crapped on the Ducks four years after their win and they actually won a playoff series during that time. Sure, the Kings won two of them but, man, there hasn't been much to cheer about since.

Doesn't mean I'm going to lavish praise on other teams, I just can't say "scoreboard" from four years ago.

Ancient history or not, those Kings teams and players (overpaid and all) are forever engraved on that Cup. Every championship (and we have TWO!!) has its price and I'm sure we paid ours. That doesn't it make it less stellar or important or like you say "scoreboard". As for the last four years....its still better than had we not won anything.......
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,320
11,113
Speaking of bad luck, I do wonder how much was known behind the scenes that this Richards was having off ice issues. For someone who is known for doing his due diligence and over analyzing things, you’d think Lombardi would’ve been well informed on such matters.
One of the unknowns I would like to know is whether or not Richards was already inside the NHL's drug rehab program.
 

BigKing

Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Mar 11, 2003
11,352
11,461
Belmont Shore, CA
google.com
Ancient history or not, those Kings teams and players (overpaid and all) are forever engraved on that Cup. Every championship (and we have TWO!!) has its price and I'm sure we paid ours. That doesn't it make it less stellar or important or like you say "scoreboard". As for the last four years....its still better than had we not won anything.......

Of course; however, I'm not one to bring it up in an argument about who is good currently because it has zero relevance. I'm not discrediting the Cups and I'm the last person that needs to be reminded about how special and amazing those years were: they are just ancient history when talking about what teams are good right now. Those two Cups didn't stop an expansion team from sweeping the Kings while holding them to three goals in four games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

TruKingFan

Two-Time Cup Winner
Aug 16, 2004
1,294
838
Beachfront
I gotcha. It only has relevance because like I said teams pay a price for a championship. Kings did but it was well worth it, right? You can wax poetic about how good that team in TB is on paper or sing praises about Knights and their expansion season that swept the Kings but thing is, it means jack sh!t a the end of the season. Because it's all about the Capitals. That's it. Everything else doesn't matter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

kingsfan28

Its A Kingspiracy !
Feb 27, 2005
39,474
8,629
Corsi Hill
To be fair I think more than a few guys made their calls at the time and were right--i.e. @Herby on buying out Richards at the right time--but I agree that it's the context and perspective that I'm talking about as well.


The problem was that DL believed more in loyalty [ which isn't always bad] with Richards and Sutter than doing the right thing, the business side of things. He should've bought one out, and not extended the other contract when it was obvious he lost the room and the team. Coaches who blow 12 point leads, then get run over in the playoffs should not be brought back.
 

Fishhead

Registered User
Jul 15, 2003
7,306
5,764
PNW
Of course; however, I'm not one to bring it up in an argument about who is good currently because it has zero relevance. I'm not discrediting the Cups and I'm the last person that needs to be reminded about how special and amazing those years were: they are just ancient history when talking about what teams are good right now. Those two Cups didn't stop an expansion team from sweeping the Kings while holding them to three goals in four games.

I dunno, I think it does have some relevance. Winning cups in the cap world is different, and there's a couple ways to go about doing it. The way both the Kings (and Chicago, more or less) did it was to create a core of top players through drafting and trades, who all were of a somewhat similar age and who were designed to grow together and peak at the same time. It worked great for both teams, but there are two major drawbacks.

1. That core ages together, and since they are similar ages their production as a whole will fall off in general. They'll be exceptions, but that's just a fact of life in the NHL.

2. That core will need to be signed to long contracts to keep their cap hits manageable, and since they will all be UFA age or close to it after winning cups it's going to be expensive. This is obviously risky, but you go for it while you can.

To win, your best bet is to sacrifice those future assets to get you over the hump, and most teams do that. But as guys move on like Mitchell, Regehr, or fall off like Greene and Stoll, you can't really replace them, the cap isn't designed that way. Getting equivalent players without giving up assets is going to be far more expensive, and with a good team it isn't affordable.

So really, the Kings getting swept is highly influenced by their loading up to make three runs where they were clear contenders. When the team was loaded, they could roll out a hobbled Greene and Jeff Schultz in place of Mitchell and Regehr and still win a series. They had the all around talent to absorb that. The current team is not at the point of their trajectory where they can absorb that.

Pittsburgh did it differently, building around two generational players and then trying to strike lightning with the supporting cast. They certainly weren't considered top contenders every year, but it works for short bursts when things fall into place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,230
14,975
Mullett Lake, MI
I've never understood why people complain about what's being discussed, especially in the middle of July, the deadest time of the year for the NHL. That is the great thing about internet forums, sometimes conversations can grow and be discussed organically, look at what is being discussed in the Kovalchuk thread. I mean if you don't want to discuss something, just move on the next post, or in a thread like this just change the topic on your own. You know making a post in here talking about Ottawa's issues or what's going on in Montreal rather than getting mad at people for talking about hockey or hockey from the past in a hockey forum.
 

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
22,758
18,367
Boy, I definitely wasn't trying to re-ignite that debate. I was just saying that--no matter what the reason--more than one poster called their shot on a few things and they were right. The opposite reasoning is also defensible. It's not black and white. And I was only pointing it out because of that necessary context, as that context is important for those discussions of other GMs as well--they're not infallible. DL was amazing until he wasn't, but at least he won before being deified.

Luckily this board--unlike many others--doesn't have the same lovefest for Chayka. yzerman and co have earned SOME praise--Chayka hasn't done ****.

I know you're trying be neutral, but I have to ask, how is there a case to be made in defense of this.

Richards was visibly garbage. The only people at the time who thought it was good were the same people praising his PRE NHL accomplishments. Reading HF was awful at that time "TRIPLE GOLD". The obnoxious extent people went to try to distract the fact that he had become garbage was insane.
 
Last edited:

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,435
22,233
Unemployed in Greenland
I've never understood why people complain about what's being discussed, especially in the middle of July, the deadest time of the year for the NHL. That is the great thing about internet forums, sometimes conversations can grow and be discussed organically, look at what is being discussed in the Kovalchuk thread. I mean if you don't want to discuss something, just move on the next post, or in a thread like this just change the topic on your own. You know making a post in here talking about Ottawa's issues or what's going on in Montreal rather than getting mad at people for talking about hockey or hockey from the past in a hockey forum.
And I will never understand how people can keep beating to death something that has been discussed literally hundreds of times. Every time I check back in here it’s the same crap conversation from 3 years ago.

It’s the middle of the offseason and there’s nothing to talk about? I dunno, go outside maybe?
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,490
60,934
I.E.
I know you're trying be neutral, but I have to ask, how is there a case to be made in defense of this.

Richards was visibly garbage. The only people at the time who thought it was good were the same people praising his PRE NHL accomplishments. Reading HF was awful at that time "TRIPLE GOLD". The obnoxious extent people went to try to distract the fact that he had become garbage was insane.

It's an easy case frankly. Loyalty. Richards made him a promise. Try to keep the gang together. The 2014 team was invincible, can't go ruining that. And so on. Again though not the point I'm trying to make, people are wanting to debate the validity of that micro example when really I'm just trying to paint the big picture, we could cite a different example certainly if that will help it stop being a distraction. Edit: here, we'll even bring it back to Tampa Bay. DL made a move for Sekera that's widely panned in hindsight around here. It's defensible, certainly. But he got roasted for it and still does. Meanwhile, Stevie Invincible Y made a trade with essentially 3 first round picks and a 2nd for Ryan McDonagh and still got no further. When does his statute of limitations on criticism kick in?

And to bring it back around to the main point being Around the League, these other GMs that keep getting worshipped are going to have to make similar decisions soon too. All the folks who went "LOL DOUGHTY 11 MILLION" are paying John "where's my zone" Carlson 9 million, even OEL who hasn't done shit 8+, Trouba's asking for 8 etc. It's literally the price to be paid for success and life's easy until your team has both expectations and veterans.

So sure one can make the case that DL lost his marbles but it was for good reason, and one that was brought on by a taste of winning, and these teams aging into their primes and towards UFA age are about to hit some salary cap speedbumps. They luckily have a little bit of a forewarning road map thru what's happened with the Hawks and the Kings at least, yet it's not going to totally stop them.
 

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
22,758
18,367
It's an easy case frankly. Loyalty. Richards made him a promise. Try to keep the gang together. The 2014 team was invincible, can't go ruining that. And so on. Again though not the point I'm trying to make, people are wanting to debate the validity of that micro example when really I'm just trying to paint the big picture, we could cite a different example certainly if that will help it stop being a distraction. Edit: here, we'll even bring it back to Tampa Bay. DL made a move for Sekera that's widely panned in hindsight around here. It's defensible, certainly. But he got roasted for it and still does. Meanwhile, Stevie Invincible Y made a trade for essentially 3 first round picks and a 2nd for Ryan McDonagh and still got no further. When does his statute of limitations kick in?

And to bring it back around to the main point being Around the League, these other GMs that keep getting worshipped are going to have to make similar decisions soon too. All the folks who went "LOL DOUGHTY 11 MILLION" are paying John "where's my zone" Carlson 9 million, even OEL who hasn't done **** 8+, Trouba's asking for 8 etc. It's literally the price to be paid for success and life's easy until your team has both expectations and veterans.

So sure one can make the case that DL lost his marbles but it was for good reason, and one that was brought on by a taste of winning.

Loyalty is something you give your wife. Not a visible falling Star.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,320
11,113
And I will never understand how people can keep beating to death something that has been discussed literally hundreds of times. Every time I check back in here it’s the same crap conversation from 3 years ago.

It’s the middle of the offseason and there’s nothing to talk about? I dunno, go outside maybe?
If only everyone could be perfect posters, making the perfect posts about what other posters post. Try saying that 3 times fast.
 

TruKingFan

Two-Time Cup Winner
Aug 16, 2004
1,294
838
Beachfront
At least nobody whines about McSorley's ****ing stick any more.

Where have you been? We forgave that 6 years ago and again 2 years after that........so it's all about whining about something starting 4 years ago...like Richards' not being bought out and how it led to one playoff win since....<barf>
 
  • Like
Reactions: King Trouty
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->