Around Hockey XXI (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[DarkandStormy]

I knew I was an easy grader. I'd give him a D+. Bob had a NMC and was pissed so Jarmo's leverage with him was questionable. The real problem was trading away a first for Duchene and and 2 -2nds for Dzingle which made Jarmo's strategy even more questionable as the team wasn't getting any additional picks for their assets (Bob and Bread).

There was value in beating Tampa. Getting the "never won a playoff series" mark off the franchise's resume wasn't insignificant. But the $64,000 question is whether the CBJ needed all those pieces to beat Tampa. Tampa went into a funk and may not be completely over it. There's a reasonable chance that the CBJ could have beaten them without 2 of the 3 of Bread, Duchene and Bob. At the end of the day, Jarmo may have bought multiple and very expensive term insurance policies that could have possibly been completely superfluous.

Jarmo has left this franchise twisting in the wind. It's now a team which reminds me of the 2010-11 version of the CBJ-lots of declining veterans and mediocre youth. He should pay the ultimate price for allowing the franchise to fall so precipitously based on faulty risk and asset management that had virtually no chance of being successful beyond a lone playoff series win.

1) When was the last "sign and trade" deal made in the NHL? They just don't seem that common, but I could be wrong.
2) Heck, even trading away their UFA rights would have netted a mid-round pick at worst.
3) Don't forget - it was two 2nds *AND* Duclair for Dzingel. Duclair is on a 45-point pace this season, though it's Ottawa and they don't have many other options up front.
4) Jarmo was in a bind last year. Couldn't completely sell as the team was borderline playoffs. Instead, he threw the kitchen sink at the market (what the **** was the point of Kinkaid?) and then caught nothing when July 1 came around. I thought he should have at least tried to sell "UFA rights" - probably Panarin's would have made the most sense. But instead, he was singing to Porty about offering Bread $14m+ on an 8-year deal to try to save his reputation a bit, which was obviously a dumb PR stunt.

We could go back and forth about whether *that many* additions were needed to beat TB and if it was worth it for the playoff series win. But there's a Jarmo thread for that.

To tie it into this thread, Bread is thriving on an otherwise-mediocre team, Bob is still struuuuuuugling in Florida, and both Duchene and Dzingel have settled into who they were before their time in Columbus (~60 point player in Duchene and ~45-50 point player in Dzingel).

 

[EspenK]

Devils fire John Hynes.

Devils fire coach John Hynes hours before game, name Alain Nasreddine interim coach

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Don't really know where else to post this, because I'm not making a new thread about our former players, but the first of two difficult homecomings is now on the immediate horizon.

Panarin comes to town Thursday.

Does he get boo'd? Cheered? Does he get a video tribute? If you're going to the game, what are you going to do?

I'm not going to be there, but my prediction is he gets boo'd during every portion of the game, including during his tribute (he gets one). He'll acknowledge the fans with a wave and smile. And thank them post game.

If I were to be there. I would clap for him during his tribute, and then treat him as another Ranger. No boo's, no cheers. Just another player.

 

[Cowumbus]

Don't really know where else to post this, because I'm not making a new thread about our former players, but the first of two difficult homecomings is now on the immediate horizon.

Panarin comes to town Thursday.

Does he get boo'd? Cheered? Does he get a video tribute? If you're going to the game, what are you going to do?

I'm not going to be there, but my prediction is he gets boo'd during every portion of the game, including during his tribute (he gets one). He'll acknowledge the fans with a wave and smile. And thank them post game.

If I were to be there. I would clap for him during his tribute, and then treat him as another Ranger. No boo's, no cheers. Just another player.

He’s the best player we have ever had wear a CBJ jersey, and took us out of the first round of the playoffs. I will never boo him.

 

[Jovavic]

Booing Panarin makes zero sense except for when he finishes his hat trick. This isn't a Carter or Foote situation, dude was a pro (at least publicly and on the ice) the entire time he was here and chose to play elsewhere.

 

[EspenK]

I'm sure the team will probably bang their sticks extra hard when he gets his tribute.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I’m still bitter. As much as he talked about how nice his time was here it all comes down to Columbus as a city wasn’t good enough for him and I take offense to that.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I’m still bitter. As much as he talked about how nice his time was here it all comes down to Columbus as a city wasn’t good enough for him and I take offense to that.

29 other cities weren't good enough either, apparently.

He never signed here, never asked to come here, and never asked to be traded once he was here. He fulfilled his contractual obligations and was the best skater in franchise history.

I can't believe people are still - STILL - taking "offense" to a professional athlete leaving their team. It's pathetic, tbh.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

29 other cities weren't good enough either, apparently.

He never signed here, never asked to come here, and never asked to be traded once he was here. He fulfilled his contractual obligations and was the best skater in franchise history.

I can't believe people are still - STILL - taking "offense" to a professional athlete leaving their team. It's pathetic, tbh.

What I’m bitter about is that he never outright said he didn’t want to be here. We all knew it but he wouldn’t say it. The team then held out false hope that they could convince him to stay. What the CBJ got out of the deal was absolutely nothing and perhaps a negative return considering all the draft picks given up in the whole process. If he was just honest from day one this team would be in better shape than it is today.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

“That was what we had heard,” said John Davidson, who was the Blue Jackets president of hockey operations before leaving for the same position with the Rangers. “We tried to sign him (in Columbus). We tried hard to sign him. We had a dinner one night with the owner and it went on and on and on. He’s still a reasonably young guy and he (was going) to sign an eight-year deal. He wanted something that Columbus couldn’t give him, and that was a big, big city. And he got a big, big city now. He’s blossomed already. I think he’d play well anywhere.

“I could understand the defensive attitude that some people would have in Columbus. He tried to say what a great city Columbus was and even though it isn’t one of the bigger cities in the country, ‘Look how beautiful it is; look how nice it is; why can’t we have that at home?’ So he’s got respect for Columbus. There’s no question about it.”

“When he didn’t want to sign all through the season, I tried to sign him, or I tried to have our group get him signed as part of the Blue Jackets organization,” Davidson said. “Then the (opportunity) came up for me to go to New York, which I did with the blessing of (top executive) Mike Priest and the organization of the Blue Jackets. At that time the free-agent market (opened) and I talked to Artem. Why wouldn’t I? It’s a great place. I don’t know. I’m not going to say I’m the reason he went to New York. I think New York’s the reason he went to New York. That’s something he had his mind on. It doesn’t hurt when you know a person. I can help him because I’m very acclimated with what New York and the Rangers mean after spending 28 years there, so it’s a good fit.”

“It’s a pretty nervous moment,” Panarin said. “I had a good two years in Columbus. So I’ll try and enjoy. I don’t know how it will happen, the reaction, the fans. So, we’ll see. Excited.”

Panarin said the fans always treated him well there. Well, almost always, until there was a story that he was unwilling to re-sign before at least testing free agency.
“I have a game where the fans say, ‘Boooo’ at the end of the season. So…”

“Maybe I had a little feeling (of pressure) in the beginning of the season,” Panarin said. “Personally, I wasn’t thinking about money, really. It’s not first, what’s important for me in life. So I think that helped for me. Because if I was thinking about money, if I’m thinking every day about my contract, how big my contract …

“I’m not thinking about that and I’m not feeling pressure about that now. I feel it in the beginning of the season, pressure, because lots of guys tell me, ‘Oh, it’s the pressure’ in the summer. ‘Get ready for that pressure.’ And I started to think maybe a little. But I am not young right now. I feel good. So we play well right now and everything’s good.”

“Because it’s a lot of good sides for that team,” he said. “A good organization. It’s Original Six. The Rangers have a big story, and I feel good when I play for the Rangers. Best city in the world, for me. So after my original city, Korkino, it’s it. Just a feeling. I wanted to be here. I have many different (choices), with money and everything, so I just (had a) feeling, I want to play for the Rangers.”

'I feel good here': Settled and happy in New York, Artemi...

 

[Jovavic]

Maybe, but every time a team rolls through the regular season their opponent will be met with "can this team pull off what Columbus did all those years ago?" for as long as the league is around.

 

[Jovavic]

'I feel good here': Settled and happy in New York, Artemi...

He should look back at his time in Columbus fondly as it's where he proved he could be the hero instead of just Kane's sidekick. Had he not been traded here, no doubt he puts up great numbers in Chicago put people would always have that one small doubt of "maybe it's just Kane" and his contract offers may have been slightly lower. In Columbus he proved he can be "the guy" on offense, driving the play whenever he was out there and in the league today, those are the players that get the big money, and he doesn't get that contract if hasn't proved himself.

 

[DarkandStormy]

What I’m bitter about is that he never outright said he didn’t want to be here. We all knew it but he wouldn’t say it. The team then held out false hope that they could convince him to stay. What the CBJ got out of the deal was absolutely nothing and perhaps a negative return considering all the draft picks given up in the whole process. If he was just honest from day one this team would be in better shape than it is today.

If he came out on July 2, 2018 and said, "I am not going to sign an extension in Columbus. I do not want to be here long term, but I will fulfill my contractual obligation," he'd get hammered more than Carter and Foote combined.

 

[DJA]

So he wanted to live in a “big big city” but lives in Greenwich, Connecticut? And having a garage is something new and different? Huh?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

If he came out on July 2, 2018 and said, "I am not going to sign an extension in Columbus. I do not want to be here long term, but I will fulfill my contractual obligation," he'd get hammered more than Carter and Foote combined.

But isn’t that essentially what he did even though he’d never say it to our faces? He strung the city and the team along for an entire year because he wouldn’t tell the truth. He tried to play the middle so he wouldn’t make himself look bad when honesty would have been the best for all sides.

All he had to do is come out and say that he didn’t want to be here. Instead we dealt with the constant NY or FL rumors. But now that it’s all out and he spoke to NY media that NY is where he wanted to be (in English no less) and has said he won’t address it tomorrow when he returns. (Meaning Columbus media gets no access to the topic)

He was fully entitled to play where he wants as a UFA but his handling leading up to it seems very selfish to me because he would never admit what we all knew and I’m furious that the team did nothing about it except try to beg him to stay and blow a ton of draft picks on rentals they never seriously considered keeping.

 

[DarkandStormy]

But isn’t that essentially what he did even though he’d never say it to our faces? He strung the city and the team along for an entire year because he wouldn’t tell the truth. He tried to play the middle so he wouldn’t make himself look bad when honesty would have been the best for all sides.

All he had to do is come out and say that he didn’t want to be here. Instead we dealt with the constant NY or FL rumors. But now that it’s all out and he spoke to NY media that NY is where he wanted to be (in English no less) and has said he won’t address it tomorrow when he returns. (Meaning Columbus media gets no access to the topic)

He was fully entitled to play where he wants as a UFA but his handling leading up to it seems very selfish to me because he would never admit what we all knew and I’m furious that the team did nothing about it except try to beg him to stay and blow a ton of draft picks on rentals they never seriously considered keeping.

I'm just struggling with a) "he should have told us" Why? Why should he have told us? You think management informs their prospective buyouts they're going to buy them out a year before they do it? and b) that the reaction would have been find had he actually informed management.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I'm just struggling with a) "he should have told us" Why? Why should he have told us? You think management informs their prospective buyouts they're going to buy them out a year before they do it? and b) that the reaction would have been find had he actually informed management.

I’m failing to see how buyouts are comparable. Teams can make business decisions as much as players can. I’m not faulting him for making the decision. I’m faulting him for stringing everyone along so he wouldn’t look bad.

If he knew he was leaving, why would you act like you haven’t made a decision whenever the media asked? By all accounts the whole scenario was distraction with him and Bob all season. I don’t fault him 100% for how this all played out but you can’t deny that the fans and team were strung along hoping he might stay due to some tiny sliver of hope that kept everyone hooked in.

The team is like Lloyd Christmas falling in love with Mary Swanson in a Dumb and Dumber because their chances of being together are 1 in a million. Jarmo and the team ownership got played like fools right up until the UFA period started and it has set this team back probably 5 years. Maybe I’m more upset with the team management because they let Panarin have 100% control of the situation while they still had control of his contract. The only positive outcome from Panarin leaving for nothing is that they got out of the Saad contract.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Panarin made it very clear and obvious he had no interest in signing. Then I think his mind went back and forth a bit, but then it went back to leaving. I assume management was very well aware of his intentions and were told outright he was walking in the summer before last season. He didn’t owe the fans that explanation, but he did owe management.

I think panarin did things the right way.

 

[DJA]

Jarmo blew it on July 2, 2018 when he was well aware that Panarin was leaving and sat paralyzed. It was a double “eff you” to the fans because we were strung along by both management and the player. But I blame Jarmo more for doing absolutely nothing.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Jarmo blew it on July 2, 2018 when he was well aware that Panarin was leaving and sat paralyzed. It was a double “eff you” to the fans because we were strung along by both management and the player. But I blame Jarmo more for doing absolutely nothing.

What did you want him to do? Trade him? If he does, then we likely need to trade Bobrovsky too. Yeah, we might have gotten some nice high picks and some nice prospects, but the season we're having now (A team you've called plumbers, boring, and a team you don't like) would have happened last year too. Maybe even worse, because the players would have reported to camp knowing Jarmo and co. punted on the season.

Look, at the time I agreed with you. I said we should trade Panarin and Bob to get what we can because they weren't staying. I held that belief all summer, and through the whole season. But I was wrong. I wouldn't trade last years run for a few late first round picks or some maybe prospects. And I realize it was just a round one series win, but damn it was f***ing fun. Without Panarin and Bob, its not happening last year.

 

[DJA]

What did you want him to do? Trade him? If he does, then we likely need to trade Bobrovsky too. Yeah, we might have gotten some nice high picks and some nice prospects, but the season we're having now (A team you've called plumbers, boring, and a team you don't like) would have happened last year too. Maybe even worse, because the players would have reported to camp knowing Jarmo and co. punted on the season.

Look, at the time I agreed with you. I said we should trade Panarin and Bob to get what we can because they weren't staying. I held that belief all summer, and through the whole season. But I was wrong. I wouldn't trade last years run for a few late first round picks or some maybe prospects. And I realize it was just a round one series win, but damn it was ****ing fun. Without Panarin and Bob, its not happening last year.

Panarin should have been traded on July 3. Bob was a different story due to the NMC and an even worse goalie situation behind him than we have now. Yes there would have been outcry from the fan base at the time but I’m sure it could have been painted that Panarin didn’t want to be here and turned him into the bad guy and people would have gotten over it. A good NHL player/prospect and 1st rounder is a nice consolation prize. Team would probably have been OK with the return and Bob in net. (And you must have missed all of the articles about how much the locker room was sick of these guys. There probably would have been cheers.)

I keep saying it, the TB win was great but what is the long term benefit? Attendance still sucks, I didn’t hear about any appreciable season tix increase, and any revenue we made is sitting in JP’s piggy bank unused in the form of a shit ton of cap space. Also the team (this year) didn’t get a bump from winning last year which has always been an enormous myth.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Panarin should have been traded on July 3. Bob was a different story due to the NMC and an even worse goalie situation behind him than we have now. Yes there would have been outcry from the fan base at the time but I’m sure it could have been painted that Panarin didn’t want to be here and turned him into the bad guy and people would have gotten over it. A good NHL player/prospect and 1st rounder is a nice consolation prize. Team would probably have been OK with the return and Bob in net. (And you must have missed all of the articles about how much the locker room was sick of these guys. There probably would have been cheers.)

I keep saying it, the TB win was great but what is the long term benefit? Attendance still sucks, I didn’t hear about any appreciable season tix increase, and any revenue we made is sitting in JP’s piggy bank unused in the form of a **** ton of cap space. Also the team (this year) didn’t get a bump from winning last year which has always been an enormous myth.

I really think Jarmo was banking on being able to steal a top young player away from another team that had cap issues. Every team figured it out and we had virtually no draft picks left to make any sort of deal. Now they have tons of cap space and virtually nobody to use it on next season as I doubt they can swoon Taylor Hall with a season like this.

 

[Viqsi]

I keep saying it, the TB win was great but what is the long term benefit?

Greater than the supposed "long term benefit" of trading Panarin, because we'd be in very much the same situation we are now, only we'd likely still have the "never won a playoff series" bit still hanging over our heads. I'll take that over yet another heap of of yet more of the same damn lottery tickets people pray over year after year every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Just because it's not making you as happy right now doesn't make it the worse deal.

 

[DJA]

Greater than the supposed "long term benefit" of trading Panarin, because we'd be in very much the same situation we are now, only we'd likely still have the "never won a playoff series" bit still hanging over our heads. I'll take that over yet another heap of of yet more of the same damn lottery tickets people pray over year after year every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Just because it's not making you as happy right now doesn't make it the worse deal.

the “never won a playoff series” thing is really only a thing on HFBoards and now the goalposts have shifted to “only won one playoff round in their history” so I don’t notice much benefit. We probably could have gotten at least 3 assets for Panarin which is better than our current zero which definitely could have helped us right now.

 

[Viqsi]

the “never won a playoff series” thing is really only a thing on HFBoards and now the goalposts have shifted to “only won one playoff round in their history” so I don’t notice much benefit. We probably could have gotten at least 3 assets for Panarin which is better than our current zero which definitely could have helped us right now.

And those assets would have been better and more "right now" beneficial to the team than the likes of Texier and Gavrikov and Bemstrom because...?

A boat is just a boat, but the Mystery Box could be anything! It could even be a boat; you know how much we've wanted one of those!