Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Post your terrible ideas here!

Status
Not open for further replies.

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Was that the year we made playoffs and he stepped up to play with Brodie when Gio went down. They were probably our best D pair down the stretch and into the playoffs. Ya don't think he was awful.

That was the year he and Brodie were on the ice together for only 1 out of every 3 Flames shot attempts for, and, unsurprisingly, 31.6% of the Flames' goals for - while Schlemko-Diaz, Russell-Wideman, Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler, and... Jonas Hiller carried us, but anything for a good narrative about Engelland "stepping up".

Oh, and Chris Butler is an AHLer. Literally, now that he's no longer a Flame.

Anyways, just because I don't want Engelland back, doesn't mean I don't think he'd be a passable option as a #6/#7 on #6/#7 money playing #6/#7 minutes. I just don't buy for a minute that he's:

1) Worth more than a million AAV
2) Worth playing 18 minutes a game including 1st (!) PK unit
3) A good partner for: Brodie, Bartkowski, Wotherspoon, Ollas-Mattsson, Hickey, Kylington, Anderrsson, Healy, or pretty much any other player making #6/#7 money. I do think he's a good partner for Kulak though.
4) Able to viewed objectively by Gulutzan and co with respect to any of the above
5) Necessary for "physical play" without whom our defense is "soft"

It's just too much work to force Engelland to fit. He's simply not a core piece where you make role players fit around him. Wotherspoon in particular should have a chance to recapture that 2016 form he (and Jokipakka for that matter) showed partnered with Nakladal.
 
Last edited:

SaintMorose

Registered User
Jul 21, 2009
3,928
520
Was that the year we made playoffs and he stepped up to play with Brodie when Gio went down. They were probably our best D pair down the stretch and into the playoffs. Ya don't think he was awful.

I've got to echo I think this board really over-rated him in that stretch

"Stepping up" meant looking like an average NHL Dman a few games and mostly not completely falling apart so Brodie could carry him (though that pairing was dangerous when it came to weak turnovers both Brodie trying to force plays and Deryk being oddly weak on the puck). It did not mean playing consistently like a 2M+ Dman. People dont talk enough about how Brodie's offense was gone when playing beside Engelland because they were weathering the storm in their own end. He's a #6/7 tweener D that can insert some grit and unless he's getting paid like a #6/7 D he shouldn't be on the roster.
 

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
7,002
1,040
That was the year he and Brodie were on the ice together for only 1 out of every 3 Flames shot attempts for, and, unsurprisingly, 31.6% of the Flames' goals for - while Schlemko-Diaz, Russell-Wideman, Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler, and... Jonas Hiller carried us, but anything for a good narrative about Engelland "stepping up".

Oh, and Chris Butler is an AHLer. Literally, now that he's no longer a Flame.

Anyways, just because I don't want Engelland back, doesn't mean I don't think he'd be a passable option as a #6/#7 on #6/#7 money playing #6/#7 minutes. I just don't buy for a minute that he's:

1) Worth more than a million AAV
2) Worth playing 18 minutes a game including 1st (!) PK unit
3) A good partner for: Brodie, Bartkowski, Wotherspoon, Ollas-Mattsson, Hickey, Kylington, Anderrsson, Healy, or pretty much any other player making #6/#7 money. I do think he's a good partner for Kulak though.
4) Able to viewed objectively by Gulutzan and co with respect to any of the above
5) Necessary for "physical play" without whom our defense is "soft"

It's just too much work to force Engelland to fit. He's simply not a core piece where you make role players fit around him. Wotherspoon in particular should have a chance to recapture that 2016 form he (and Jokipakka for that matter) showed partnered with Nakladal.

The defense is soft, they don't match up against big skilled forwards very well at all. I'm not saying Engelland is the answer but niether are Kulak or Nakladal. A big, mean defensive defenseman, that can skate, would go a long way, even on the bottom pairing.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,176
8,337
Padded Room
The only time Engelland played poorly in his first season with the Flames was whenever he was saddled with Smid. Engelland is a solid 5-6 option that can up his minutes and the quality of his opponent when in a pinch. Anyone calling him anything less needs to adjust their expectations because they are severely out of whack.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
The defense is soft, they don't match up against big skilled forwards very well at all. .

The top 4 completely shut down Anaheim's big forwards and kept them to the perimeter. There is nothing soft about them unless you are fixated on hit stats, which are about as useful as faceoff stats.

I am amazed how people can continue to say this kind of stuff while it is not even true. I am not even sure how to argue against the dogma because it is so faith-based and in denial of every goal, every scoring chance, etc.
 
Last edited:

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
7,002
1,040
The top 4 completely shut down Anaheim's big forwards and kept them to the perimeter. There is nothing soft about them unless you are fixated on hit stats, which are about as useful as faceoff stats.

I am amazed how people can continue to say this kind of stuff while it is not even true. I am not even sure how to argue against the dogma because it is so faith-based and in denial of every goal, every scoring chance, etc.

What?!? Face off stats and grinding your opponent down means far more than perimeter possession numbers ever will. Always have, always will! Getzlaf and Perry had 8 point in 4 games, hardly neutralized, far higher than their season averages.
 
Last edited:

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Getzlaf and Perry had 8 point in 4 games, hardly neutralized, far higher than their season averages.

...

Getzlaf #1 Big Bad Engelland Does His Best Tomas Holmstrom Impression on a perimeter shot from Getzlaf:

[NHL2]t-288499344/c-51413603[/NHL2]


Getzlaf #2 Big Bad Mean And Tough Engelland and Bartkowski get hemmed in for such a long time, they proceed to make the worst line change in NHL history allowing a 3-on-0

[NHL2]t-288499344/c-51417203[/NHL2]

Getzlaf #3 Brodie steps up on Getzlaf forcing him to dump the puck. Stone loses the foot race to the loose puck. Rakell knocks the puck down the puck in midair and scores a skilled wraparound on Elliott. Elliott should not have allowed that goal to happen and really the way the puck bounced to Rakell had nothing to do with being big, bad, tough, mean nasty, or physical.

[NHL2]t-288500350/c-51468603[/NHL2]

Getzlaf #4 Getzlaf scores from outside the right circle on a PASS. Great Deflection Boums. Total Perimeter goal.

[NHL2]t-288500350/c-51472503[/NHL2]

Perry #1 3rd pair, to the surprise of no one. Ironically, the first goal that isn't scored from the perimeter or on a 3-on-0 in this package.

[NHL2]t-288500238/c-51527303[/NHL2]

Perry #2 Sure you could look to Monahan or Brodie or Stone and tweak a few things but really, it was a shot from a horrible angle where Elliott directed the rebound into his teammate for an own goal.

[NHL2]t-288500238/c-51528403[/NHL2]

Perry #3 Oh look, third pair again being the third pair:

[NHL2]t-288500348/c-51575003[/NHL2]

Getzlaf #5 An Empty Netter.

[NHL2]t-288500348/c-51580503[/NHL2]

There are your 8 points for Getzlaf and Perry.

And that ignores all the strong shifts our top 4 played against those guys. Which was a lot. Brodie-Stone had a SCA60 of 7.15 against the Ducks, Giordano-Hamilton had a SCA60 of 5.27, and Bartkowski-Engelland had a SCA60 of 16.05. Other than the third pair we were playing championship hockey in those four games. Even though Stone is not an "ideal" #4.
 
Last edited:

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,176
8,337
Padded Room
More turrible ideas. Yes, this means some of you can ***** and cry about wanting to dump Bennett :naughty:

Trades and expansion:
to Vegas Golden Knights (Expansion Pick)
● Matt Stajan $3,125,000

to Philadelphia Flyers
● Sam Bennett RFA
● Hunter Shinkaruk $863,333
● 2nd in 2018
to Calgary Flames
● Brayden Schenn $5,125,000

to Minnesota Wild
● Micheal Ferland RFA
● Oliver Kylington $761,667
● 1st in 2017
to Calgary Flames
● Nino Niederreiter RFA

to New Jersey Devils
● Lance Bouma $2,200,000
● Dillon Dube $792,500
● Adam Fox Unsigned Prospect
● 1st in 2018
to Calgary Flames
● Cory Schneider $6,000,000

Re-signings
● Nino Neiderreiter - 7 year(s) / $5,750,000 AAV
● Scottie Upshall - 1 year(s) / $900,000 AAV
● Curtis Lazar - 1 year(s) / $900,000 AAV
● Alex Chiasson - 1 year(s) / $1,000,000 AAV
● Michael Stone - 2 year(s) / $3,750,000 AAV
● Tyler Wotherspoon - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)
● Brett Kulak - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)
● Deryk Engelland - 1 year(s) / $2,000,000 AAV
● Jon Gillies - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)

Opening Day Line-up

Johnny Gaudreau $6,750,000 ● Sean Monahan $6,350,000 ● Brayden Schenn $5,125,000
Michael Frolik $4,300,000 ● Mikael Backlund $3,575,000 ● Troy Brower $4,500,000
Matthew Tkachuk $925,000 ● Mark Jankowski $925,000 ● Nino Niederreiter $5,750,000
Scottie Upshall $900,000 ● Curtis Lazar $900,000 ● Alex Chiasson $1,000,000
Freddie Hamilton $612,500

Mark Giordano $6,750,000 ● Dougie Hamilton $5,750,000
TJ Brodie $4,650,400 ● Michael Stone $3,750,000
Tyler Wotherspoon $650,000 ● Deryk Engelland $2,000,000
Brett Kulak $650,000

Cory Schneider $6,000,000 ● Jon Gillies $650,000

Buyout Penalties: $1,050,000
Bonus Overage: $750,000


Team Cap Hit: $74,262,900
Salary Cap: $75,000,000
Cap Space $737,100

Contender?
 

Mr Snrub

I like the way Snrub thinks!
Oct 12, 2016
5,713
2,410
More turrible ideas. Yes, this means some of you can ***** and cry about wanting to dump Bennett :naughty:

Trades and expansion:
to Vegas Golden Knights (Expansion Pick)
● Matt Stajan $3,125,000

to Philadelphia Flyers
● Sam Bennett RFA
● Hunter Shinkaruk $863,333
● 2nd in 2018
to Calgary Flames
● Brayden Schenn $5,125,000

to Minnesota Wild
● Micheal Ferland RFA
● Oliver Kylington $761,667
● 1st in 2017
to Calgary Flames
● Nino Niederreiter RFA

to New Jersey Devils
● Lance Bouma $2,200,000
● Dillon Dube $792,500
● Adam Fox Unsigned Prospect
● 1st in 2018
to Calgary Flames
● Cory Schneider $6,000,000

Re-signings
● Nino Neiderreiter - 7 year(s) / $5,750,000 AAV
● Scottie Upshall - 1 year(s) / $900,000 AAV
● Curtis Lazar - 1 year(s) / $900,000 AAV
● Alex Chiasson - 1 year(s) / $1,000,000 AAV
● Michael Stone - 2 year(s) / $3,750,000 AAV
● Tyler Wotherspoon - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)
● Brett Kulak - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)
● Deryk Engelland - 1 year(s) / $2,000,000 AAV
● Jon Gillies - 1 year(s) / $650,000 AAV (1-way)

Opening Day Line-up

Johnny Gaudreau $6,750,000 ● Sean Monahan $6,350,000 ● Brayden Schenn $5,125,000
Michael Frolik $4,300,000 ● Mikael Backlund $3,575,000 ● Troy Brower $4,500,000
Matthew Tkachuk $925,000 ● Mark Jankowski $925,000 ● Nino Niederreiter $5,750,000
Scottie Upshall $900,000 ● Curtis Lazar $900,000 ● Alex Chiasson $1,000,000
Freddie Hamilton $612,500

Mark Giordano $6,750,000 ● Dougie Hamilton $5,750,000
TJ Brodie $4,650,400 ● Michael Stone $3,750,000
Tyler Wotherspoon $650,000 ● Deryk Engelland $2,000,000
Brett Kulak $650,000

Cory Schneider $6,000,000 ● Jon Gillies $650,000

Buyout Penalties: $1,050,000
Bonus Overage: $750,000


Team Cap Hit: $74,262,900
Salary Cap: $75,000,000
Cap Space $737,100

Contender?

I think all those trades are colossal overpayments. Just an opinion though.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
I can't be the only one who sees the irony of this board's most notorious prospect burier/ good young player hater thinking Jon Gillies is suddenly an NHLer after not even being his own team's best goalie last year :laugh:
 

BigRangy

Get well soon oliver
Mar 17, 2015
3,407
1,110
Easily. Honestly, Philly probably rejects that. Schenn is what IMO Bennett's best case scenario if he develops perfectly.

Sam Bennett is already at least on the same tier as Brayden Schenn.

Schenn scores the literal majority of his points by being a mainstay of the best power play unit in the league. He outscored Bennett by 2 ! points at 5v5 this year. He's also got meh-to-bad fancies. Schenn is more truculent but that is literally it.
 

Kritty

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,921
3
Visit site
Easily. Honestly, Philly probably rejects that. Schenn is what IMO Bennett's best case scenario if he develops perfectly.

You watch different players than me I guess. Schenn is an average 2nd liner in my books and his production shows that. Bennett is already the same calibre of player but has yet to find the production. If the best Bennett turns into is Schenn then they should deal him now because I think people see more of a Ryan Kesler upside which is significantly higher than Schenn.
 

MDCSL

Registered User
Jun 9, 2016
994
576
Edmonton, AB
Sam Bennett is already at least on the same tier as Brayden Schenn.

Schenn scores the literal majority of his points by being a mainstay of the best power play unit in the league. He outscored Bennett by 2 ! points at 5v5 this year. He's also got meh-to-bad fancies. Schenn is more truculent but that is literally it.

Have you ever thought Schenn is on the pp of the best in the league because he helps make it that way? Unlike Sam Bennett. I like Bennett, but if you take off the homer glasses Schenn is clearly the better player.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,600
6,639
You can't trade all our good prospects. We need those guys as depth in 2-3 years.

Add Mike Smike/Ryan Miller/MAF, re-sign our own guys (Stone included), promote Kulak and Jankowski, get Vegas to take Brouwer, get a young backup, swim and drink beer on the beach.

That's what the Flames offseason should look like. Making a major trade would be moronic imo.
 

Kritty

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,921
3
Visit site
Have you ever thought Schenn is on the pp of the best in the league because he helps make it that way? Unlike Sam Bennett. I like Bennett, but if you take off the homer glasses Schenn is clearly the better player.

Is anyone saying Bennett is the better player? No one has said that. People are saying he will be the better player. Schenn has over 400 games to Bennett's not even 200. I would hope he is a better player with all of that added experience. In another season I don't think you'll be saying the same thing.
 

Kritty

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,921
3
Visit site
You can't trade all our good prospects. We need those guys as depth in 2-3 years.

Add Mike Smike/Ryan Miller/MAF, re-sign our own guys (Stone included), promote Kulak and Jankowski, get Vegas to take Brouwer, get a young backup, swim and drink beer on the beach.

That's what the Flames offseason should look like. Making a major trade would be moronic imo.

If you're going to bring in Smith or Miller I'd rather they just bring back Elliott.

The more I think about the Pens situation, the more I think Fleury may be the one that stays and Murray gets shopped. The Pens are in a win now mode and with what we've seen of Fleury, he has given them that chance. He fits the core perfectly and management seems to really like him. Not saying that's not the same about Murray, but the Pens need help on defence and moving Murray could allow them to try and find that. Not sure if that would be a fit for the Flames, but I'm starting to believe like another poster suggested, that Treliving may shock everyone and bring in Murray.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,176
8,337
Padded Room
Is anyone saying Bennett is the better player? No one has said that. People are saying he will be the better player. Schenn has over 400 games to Bennett's not even 200. I would hope he is a better player with all of that added experience. In another season I don't think you'll be saying the same thing.

Did you even read the post he quoted? He claimed Bennett was on the same tier or better. Which is simply untrue and one of the dumbest things I've seen
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->