Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - 2019/20 Season Part 2

[Volica]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
As a trial, you give Benny the same linemates that Monahan gets. No more excuses, if Bennett fails with them, everyone shuts up about him forever.
Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
All three guys can score, all can pass. Dube gives them more footspeed. Good opportunity for Dube to learn C on the fly where appropriate.
Mangiapane - Backlund - Ryan
Shutdown line, Mangiapane has a motor and can be physical, well balanced line
Lucic - ? - ?
This one depends who is back next season. Spots appear to be open for some AHL talent, perhaps Gawdin gets a look.

Man, I'm just having a hard time penciling anyone in, because I think there's going to be some overall changes to this lineup; or hope there is.

I don't know what Bennett on the top line gives us. I liked what I say in the playoffs. But I also hate what I saw for 75% of the season over the past 3-4 years.

I think Calgary will go overhaul/big game hunting this offseason. I hope it's done right, and not just patch-work fixes that end up making us a worse team.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I don't know what Bennett on the top line gives us. I liked what I say in the playoffs. But I also hate what I saw for 75% of the season over the past 3-4 years.

I've honestly just penciled him in there in hopes the Flames might try it so I never have to hear about the idea ever again.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
As a trial, you give Benny the same linemates that Monahan gets. No more excuses, if Bennett fails with them, everyone shuts up about him forever.
Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
All three guys can score, all can pass. Dube gives them more footspeed. Good opportunity for Dube to learn C on the fly where appropriate.
Mangiapane - Backlund - Ryan
Shutdown line, Mangiapane has a motor and can be physical, well balanced line
Lucic - ? - ?
This one depends who is back next season. Spots appear to be open for some AHL talent, perhaps Gawdin gets a look.

I love this lineup. Let’s go.

 

[Nanuuk]

Ryan should be traded to give us cap room. I like what's he's brought, but in the end he is too soft. We need to capitalize on his value now and not repeat what we did with Stajan.

 

[Volica]

I've honestly just penciled him in there in hopes the Flames might try it so I never have to hear about the idea ever again.

I'm good with that.

Then again, he could get 40 games, be very average, and you'd still have to hear that the leash wasn't long enough for him to truly tap his potential.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Could be on Robinson, but I'm *hoping* that a lot of veteran bottom six guys will get pinched and we can really flesh out our 4th line/injury depth this year.

I'm hoping the opposite. Seen enough of the Bolligs, Stajans, Raymonds, Brouwers, Neals, Rieders, Versteegs, Rinaldos and Joneses of the world for one lifetime. Not to mention Milan and his contract either. Flames should believe in their drafting and give their prospects some opportunity, most of the players worth a shit on this roster have been drafted by the Flames.

#1 they're cheaper
#2 most of the callups over the last number of years have developed nicely with the big club
#3 they're cheaper
#4 they have more motivation to stick up
#5 they're cheaper

I would be willing to make an exception for Jesper Fast.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I'm hoping the opposite. Seen enough of the Bolligs, Stajans, Raymonds, Brouwers, Neals, Rieders, Versteegs, Rinaldos and Joneses of the world for one lifetime. Not to mention Milan and his contract either. Flames should believe in their drafting and give their prospects some opportunity, most of the players worth a shit on this roster have been drafted by the Flames.

#1 they're cheaper
#2 most of the callups over the last number of years have developed nicely with the big club
#3 they're cheaper
#4 they have more motivation to stick up
#5 they're cheaper

I would be willing to make an exception for Jesper Fast.

So your biggest point is cheaper, which is my point. With flat cap and a lot of internal budget situations, there could be some good players left looking for a home, even on a cheap one year deal.

#2 just feels false in a lot of ways. A lot of our callups get a handful of games and then never come back.

This year - Yelesin, Quine, Czarnik, Robinson, Davidson, Rinaldo
Last year - Lazar, Prout, Rychel, Peluso, Lomberg
Two years ago - Stewart, Shore, F. Hamilton, Klimchuk, Hrivik, Foo, Glass, Lomberg
Three years ago - Shinkurak, Vey, Wotherspoon
Four years ago - Sieloff, Shore, Elson, Grant, Wotherspoon, Agostino, Poirier

In that span the only real callups that have turned into anything are Jankowski, Mangi, Dube, Hathaway, Kylington, Kulak. Some of them were expected to make that jump. A couple were surprises. But compared to the overall, it's a small percentage.

With #4 there's some merit sure, but on the other hand it usually wears off after a few games.

 

[Fig]

So your biggest point is cheaper, which is my point. With flat cap and a lot of internal budget situations, there could be some good players left looking for a home, even on a cheap one year deal.

#2 just feels false in a lot of ways. A lot of our callups get a handful of games and then never come back.

This year - Yelesin, Quine, Czarnik, Robinson, Davidson, Rinaldo
Last year - Lazar, Prout, Rychel, Peluso, Lomberg
Two years ago - Stewart, Shore, F. Hamilton, Klimchuk, Hrivik, Foo, Glass, Lomberg
Three years ago - Shinkurak, Vey, Wotherspoon
Four years ago - Sieloff, Shore, Elson, Grant, Wotherspoon, Agostino, Poirier

In that span the only real callups that have turned into anything are Jankowski, Mangi, Dube, Hathaway, Kylington, Kulak. Some of them were expected to make that jump. A couple were surprises. But compared to the overall, it's a small percentage.

With #4 there's some merit sure, but on the other hand it usually wears off after a few games.

Which is why you kinda give the kids leash and a few guaranteed games to keep that hunger and adrenaline up. You also rotate them out to let the kid recover from the adrenaline reset and rebuild their tenacity based on hunger for the bigs again.

Of that list above, I'd be surprised if more than one player was legitimately given an opportunity to succeed for more than 20 games that year in all 5 seasons.

This year: Rinaldo > Quine/Czarnik. Remainder barely played.
Last year: Prout > Lazar. These guys barely played, the remainder played even less
Two: Glass > Forward Hamilton. Remainder barely played.
Three: I think we're missing a few names... but Vey played the most and Tspoon and Shink barely played, wasn't it?
Four: This one doesn't make sense. Isn't this 2015? Didn't we add more guys up and down the line up for 20+ games such as Jooris, Granlund, JG etc.?

For all the guys you listed that failed, most didn't really get enough to get a fair shake (ie: 9 games). Not ot mention, how is Rinaldo on that list? I'm confused, isn't it supposed to be prospects or young guys?

Drop those guys and look at the ratios of the Janko, Hathaway etc. dudes vs the remainder on that list and I think Bounce's opinion has a bit more merit.

Phillips is tiny though. Most NHL coaches don't like tiny guys on their "energy" line. I think he's gonna get a top 9 role or not at all. I'd love to be wrong, as I think he's got NHL upside for sure.

Could be on Robinson, but I'm *hoping* that a lot of veteran bottom six guys will get pinched and we can really flesh out our 4th line/injury depth this year.

IIRC, our 4th line hasn't been a true grinder line for a long time now. I think we could experiment with some skill lines there as a pseudo 3rd line type of situation.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Which is why you kinda give the kids leash and a few guaranteed games to keep that hunger and adrenaline up. You also rotate them out to let the kid recover from the adrenaline reset and rebuild their tenacity based on hunger for the bigs again.

Of that list above, I'd be surprised if more than one player was legitimately given an opportunity to succeed for more than 20 games that year in all 5 seasons.

This year: Rinaldo > Quine/Czarnik. Remainder barely played.
Last year: Prout > Lazar. These guys barely played, the remainder played even less
Two: Glass > Forward Hamilton. Remainder barely played.
Three: I think we're missing a few names... but Vey played the most and Tspoon and Shink barely played, wasn't it?
Four: This one doesn't make sense. Isn't this 2015? Didn't we add more guys up and down the line up for 20+ games such as Jooris, Granlund, JG etc.?

For all the guys you listed that failed, most didn't really get enough to get a fair shake (ie: 9 games). Not ot mention, how is Rinaldo on that list? I'm confused, isn't it supposed to be prospects or young guys?

Drop those guys and look at the ratios of the Janko, Hathaway etc. dudes vs the remainder on that list and I think Bounce's opinion has a bit more merit.



IIRC, our 4th line hasn't been a true grinder line for a long time now. I think we could experiment with some skill lines there as a pseudo 3rd line type of situation.

In his second point he just said callups, which is what I was addressing. If it's purely prospects that's one thing, and frankly we're at a bit a gap in terms of ready prospects now with Mangi/Dube full time. Maybe Gawdin, maybe Phillips, but nobody else is ready. If we start getting a couple injuries, our forward depth is awfully thin.

The fact of the matter was we were running a 4th liner on our 2nd line with Tkachuk out, and our 4th line couldn't tread water.

 

[Fig]

In his second point he just said callups, which is what I was addressing. If it's purely prospects that's one thing, and frankly we're at a bit a gap in terms of ready prospects now with Mangi/Dube full time. Maybe Gawdin, maybe Phillips, but nobody else is ready. If we start getting a couple injuries, our forward depth is awfully thin.

Fair enough, I guess Rinaldo was indeed in Stockton and is considered a call up. I still feel like many of them didn't get solid shakes at settling down (ie: Czarnik) and that's part of the problem. I agree that the depth is thin if trying to call up from the AHL.

None of the kids are remotely close to being ready if we need them as call ups. That's why I was tossing around the idea of expanding the developmental spaces available for the players in a rotating 12/13 and 6/7 role rather than always going with the traditional swiss army knife veteran.

 

[Fig]

Do you think it's possible to manipulate Weisbrod to have Vancouver take Jankowski's and Gilles' rights for a late pick or maybe Markstrom's rights?

TBH, I'm surprised they haven't targeted Sieloff yet.

 

[Ainsy01]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
As a trial, you give Benny the same linemates that Monahan gets. No more excuses, if Bennett fails with them, everyone shuts up about him forever.
Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
All three guys can score, all can pass. Dube gives them more footspeed. Good opportunity for Dube to learn C on the fly where appropriate.
Mangiapane - Backlund - Ryan
Shutdown line, Mangiapane has a motor and can be physical, well balanced line
Lucic - ? - ?
This one depends who is back next season. Spots appear to be open for some AHL talent, perhaps Gawdin gets a look.

I really wanna see this given a chance. Ronaldo and Reider on the 4th as well, i liked both of them this year.

 

[Fig]

Hey guys, I know Treliving loves RFAs and LOOOOOOVES 2013 draft.

Any chance of a realistic Pulock trade?

I mean, Domi is a guy we're already discussing... dammit, let's figure out a Risto and/or Zadorov trade too!

 

[FlamerForLife]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
As a trial, you give Benny the same linemates that Monahan gets. No more excuses, if Bennett fails with them, everyone shuts up about him forever.
Tkachuk - Monahan - Dube
All three guys can score, all can pass. Dube gives them more footspeed. Good opportunity for Dube to learn C on the fly where appropriate.
Mangiapane - Backlund - Ryan
Shutdown line, Mangiapane has a motor and can be physical, well balanced line
Lucic - ? - ?
This one depends who is back next season. Spots appear to be open for some AHL talent, perhaps Gawdin gets a look.

This but I would put Ryan at the 4C and try and find another winger to put with Backs and Mang and then fill the 4Rw with an AHL call-up (Robinson, Gawdin, etc.)

 

[Bounces R Way]

So your biggest point is cheaper, which is my point. With flat cap and a lot of internal budget situations, there could be some good players left looking for a home, even on a cheap one year deal.

#2 just feels false in a lot of ways. A lot of our callups get a handful of games and then never come back.

This year - Yelesin, Quine, Czarnik, Robinson, Davidson, Rinaldo
Last year - Lazar, Prout, Rychel, Peluso, Lomberg
Two years ago - Stewart, Shore, F. Hamilton, Klimchuk, Hrivik, Foo, Glass, Lomberg
Three years ago - Shinkurak, Vey, Wotherspoon
Four years ago - Sieloff, Shore, Elson, Grant, Wotherspoon, Agostino, Poirier

In that span the only real callups that have turned into anything are Jankowski, Mangi, Dube, Hathaway, Kylington, Kulak. Some of them were expected to make that jump. A couple were surprises. But compared to the overall, it's a small percentage.

With #4 there's some merit sure, but on the other hand it usually wears off after a few games.

Should have specified callups as drafted prospects. Bolded are the names the Flames actually drafted out of those two groups. Easy to see which group has enjoyed more success and more importantly when they've enjoyed it.

What good UFA players are you seeing that could be had for around league minimum? Pitlick, Ennis, Weise, Schaller, Brassard, Nosek maybe? Replacement level. What's really the point in giving guys like that 10 minutes a night? Giving guys like Gawdin, Phillips, Robinson and Philp a shot demonstrates to the rest of the prospect pool that there is opportunity in Calgary. UFA players are mostly known commodities, and if they're looking at a sub million dollar 1 year deal it's mostly known that they're not that good. If the season starts and they prove they're not up for it yet or likely ever then you can go bargain hunting for a 4th liner who knows which way the other net is.

 

[Mobiandi]

Honestly, it's Flames tradition to invite another team's whipping boy on a PTO and give him a long look. My guess is that we do that with Borowiecki this next season

 

[Anglesmith]

Honestly, it's Flames tradition to invite another team's whipping boy on a PTO and give him a long look. My guess is that we do that with Borowiecki this next season

I think every team does this to an extent. Training camp invites are a way for teams to get cheap depth, and the players available for them have been passed up by the entire league.

 

[Fig]

I wonder... if asking PTO to join our AHL for a chance to stay up, rather than forced 1 way deals would be a good way to do a favour to both prospects and vets as well as give the prospects good examples to follow to get to the NHL.

Our AHL farm team is focused on development over wins anyways (not that wins are not important) but if we have veterans on the farm that are basically fighting the kids for a spot like Rinaldo was... I think it's different than a journeyman who basically knows that he's stuck on the farm for good.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Phillips is tiny though. Most NHL coaches don't like tiny guys on their "energy" line.

Jon Cooper liked Jonathan Marchessault on his energy line.
Terry Crisp liked Theo Fleury on his energy line.
Bob Hartley liked Paul Byron on his energy line.

Bad coaches don't like tiny guys on their energy line. Good coaches like good players on their roster, wherever they can find a spot for them.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Jon Cooper liked Jonathan Marchessault on his energy line.
Terry Crisp liked Theo Fleury on his energy line.
Bob Hartley liked Paul Byron on his energy line.

Bad coaches don't like tiny guys on their energy line. Good coaches like good players on their roster, wherever they can find a spot for them.

Not that I disagree, but when the organization is as worried about having a soft team already, and we already have several shorter than average players, it doesn't increase the odds.

 

[Fig]

Not that I disagree, but when the organization is as worried about having a soft team already, and we already have several shorter than average players, it doesn't increase the odds.

Soft?

I saw a chart the other day (forget where I saw it) and the Flames are around the top 10 in the league for hits at something like 28 per game. #1 was like 33? A few less hits from Phillips on a limited use 4th line would maybe drop us a couple spots down at worst and I think we'd still be above average league wide for hits. Surely we aren't a team that is abused and injured on the regular like the 2015 Flames... right?

IIRC our man games lost per game since GG has be ridiculously low. This is partially why I suggested previously to have a rotating cast of prospects vs automatically hiring vets to munch popcorn.

In comparison, Edmonton was sitting at 20 something ranking with like 18 hits per game. That's a 30% difference and IIRC, they weren't even the bottom 5 for least hits per game. Their regular season was respectable points wise, so it's all about hits.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Soft?

I saw a chart the other day (forget where I saw it) and the Flames are around the top 10 in the league for hits at something like 28 per game. #1 was like 33? A few less hits from Phillips on a limited use 4th line would maybe drop us a couple spots down at worst and I think we'd still be above average league wide for hits. Surely we aren't a team that is abused and injured on the regular like the 2015 Flames... right?

IIRC our man games lost per game since GG has be ridiculously low. This is partially why I suggested previously to have a rotating cast of prospects vs automatically hiring vets to munch popcorn.

In comparison, Edmonton was sitting at 20 something ranking with like 18 hits per game. That's a 30% difference and IIRC, they weren't even the bottom 5 for least hits per game. Their regular season was respectable points wise, so it's all about hits.

Soft after the Avs series yes. It was a big part of why we brought in Lucic.

 

[Kranix]

Do you think it's possible to manipulate Weisbrod to have Vancouver take Jankowski's and Gilles' rights for a late pick or maybe Markstrom's rights?

TBH, I'm surprised they haven't targeted Sieloff yet.

Jankowski should be in every trade offer to Van. If Weisbrod doesn't take him he's a darn hypocrite.

 

[Mobiandi]

I think the general consensus by fans around the league is that we're one of the more thuggish teams.

 

[Nanuuk]

Soft?

I saw a chart the other day (forget where I saw it) and the Flames are around the top 10 in the league for hits at something like 28 per game. #1 was like 33? A few less hits from Phillips on a limited use 4th line would maybe drop us a couple spots down at worst and I think we'd still be above average league wide for hits. Surely we aren't a team that is abused and injured on the regular like the 2015 Flames... right?

IIRC our man games lost per game since GG has be ridiculously low. This is partially why I suggested previously to have a rotating cast of prospects vs automatically hiring vets to munch popcorn.

In comparison, Edmonton was sitting at 20 something ranking with like 18 hits per game. That's a 30% difference and IIRC, they weren't even the bottom 5 for least hits per game. Their regular season was respectable points wise, so it's all about hits.

Soft doesn't mean we aren't hitting. To me it means we are easily separated from the puck or that players avoid corners or the slot and deliver excuse me checks.

From what I've read about Phillips (I really haven't seen him play a lot) is that he is tenacious and not timid about going into the hard areas. Combined with his speed and skill, I'd bring him up and put him in. 1st line, 4th line, I don't care.

Speaking of the 4th line. Where is it written that they only play 10 minutes or less in a game just to provide energy? My philosophy is that you ice 4 very good lines and skate the other guys into the ground.