Armchair GM III

[Porter Stoutheart]

If we could sign Tatar for a 1yr deal it really doesn’t matter. The cap space is definitely available.

The Cap space is available.

But the lineup space is not necessarily so readily available. We do have 14 forwards already pencilled in, and assuming all our D are ready to go, we really only project to having 13 forward spots. You could even say we have 15 forwards ready if you include Pitlick, who probably IS ready too, just is assumed to be the odd man out, and placed on waivers with the hope he clears to Milwaukee.

So what is Tatar really worth to us on a 1yr deal? Today, I argue he's only really worth whatever draft pick we could flip him for in a contingency scenario where our season goes down the drain and we look to move him at the Trade Deadline. That is maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I wouldn't pre-emptively eliminate Tomasino or Glass from our lineup just to add that extra draft pick.

It wouldn't necessarily be a wrong thing to invite guys to camp on PTOs, however. If an injury crops up, or our thinking is modified by anything else that goes on in camp, then maybe signing that extra depth will work out for us. So for me, I'm definitely down with PTOing a couple of leftover players.

Though I would expect that Tatar is a cut above just accepting a PTO from anybody.

 

[Scoresberg]

The Cap space is available.

But the lineup space is not necessarily so readily available. We do have 14 forwards already pencilled in, and assuming all our D are ready to go, we really only project to having 13 forward spots. You could even say we have 15 forwards ready if you include Pitlick, who probably IS ready too, just is assumed to be the odd man out, and placed on waivers with the hope he clears to Milwaukee.

So what is Tatar really worth to us on a 1yr deal? Today, I argue he's only really worth whatever draft pick we could flip him for in a contingency scenario where our season goes down the drain and we look to move him at the Trade Deadline. That is maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I wouldn't pre-emptively eliminate Tomasino or Glass from our lineup just to add that extra draft pick.

It wouldn't necessarily be a wrong thing to invite guys to camp on PTOs, however. If an injury crops up, or our thinking is modified by anything else that goes on in camp, then maybe signing that extra depth will work out for us. So for me, I'm definitely down with PTOing a couple of leftover players.

Though I would expect that Tatar is a cut above just accepting a PTO from anybody.

If you sign Tatar and trade/bury Grimaldi, you are looking at something like this:

Forsberg - Johansen - Duchene
Tatar - Granlund - Kunin
Cousins - Glass - Tolvanen/Tomasino
Jeannot - Sissons - Trenin
Tolvanen/Tomasino, Olivier

I don't think neither Tolvanen or Tomasino are ready for the 82-game grind. Olivier's not an everyday player. Who knows what Glass looks like.

All-in-all, signing Tatar to a one-year deal as an insurance for these kids would be a good move, imo.

 

[101st_fan]

If you sign Tatar and trade/bury Grimaldi, you are looking at something like this:

Forsberg - Johansen - Duchene
Tatar - Granlund - Kunin
Cousins - Glass - Tolvanen/Tomasino
Jeannot - Sissons - Trenin
Tolvanen/Tomasino, Olivier

I don't think neither Tolvanen or Tomasino are ready for the 82-game grind. Olivier's not an everyday player. Who knows what Glass looks like.

All-in-all, signing Tatar to a one-year deal as an insurance for these kids would be a good move, imo.

The issue with a FA signing is that it requires a side deal such as trading/burying Grimaldi ... and risking losing him for nothing if we try to bury him.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

The issue with a FA signing is that it requires a side deal such as trading/burying Grimaldi ... and risking losing him for nothing if we try to bury him.

I couldn't care less if he's lost for nothing on waivers. There was never anything invested in him, right?

 

[Predsanddead24]

Maybe I missed this but if Tatar is signing a one year deal to try and rebuild his value after his playoff benching why would he want to come to our offensive black hole of a team?

 

[Scoresberg]

The issue with a FA signing is that it requires a side deal such as trading/burying Grimaldi ... and risking losing him for nothing if we try to bury him.

You're right but can't see him having much value around the league.

 

[101st_fan]

I couldn't care less if he's lost for nothing on waivers. There was never anything invested in him, right?

A 6th is better than nothing. It's likely a moot point considering I doubt Tatar takes a relatively cheap, one year deal here. If it's for another 10 goal Grimaldi type player, why make the move when we can just keep the cost controlled option as a perma-scratch?

 

[nine_inch_fang]

A 6th is better than nothing. It's likely a moot point considering I doubt Tatar takes a relatively cheap, one year deal here. If it's for another 10 goal Grimaldi type player, why make the move when we can just keep the cost controlled option as a perma-scratch?

Me not giving a shit if the Preds lose Grimaldi for nothing has nothing to do with all that other stuff. I'm not advocating any moves, just expressing my feelings about Grimaldi.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Maybe Arizona or Buffalo would claim Grimaldi on waivers, at least? I don't think he has any trade value. It's also possible that he could be waived straight to Milwaukee.

I just find it a little bit... sad... if that's truly the state of things. Because for all that Hynes may not use him or want to use him, he's actually a pretty good little player, and from his playoff rise, through the line with Bonino and Smith where he really played well, and even with his 10 goals in extremely limited usage last year... he SHOULD be in the NHL somewhere. But if all 32 teams say, "sure, but... not here"... well that seems a little bit unjust.

I guess that's hockey, though, he is getting paid $2M either way, so even if justice is not entirely served, he has a fair bit of consolation!

End of the day if you take that and go make a few million more in a nice city in Russia or in Switzerland or somewhere, you've had a pretty good ride.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Uh, any takers for Evander Kane?

Imagine if it's not "worst case" with him. He's cleared of actually betting on his own games or whatever. He remains a loose cannon, gambling addict (hopefully "former"), assaholic type... but... also one of the best pure power forwards in the game today. For $7M for 4 years.

It's pretty hard to argue against his potential value on the ice. I would say the vast majority of us wouldn't take his off-ice baggage, even if he's cleared of the "worst case" stuff.

But anybody want to take a different position? Say he's cleared and SJ is giving him away "for free". Anybody?

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Uh, any takers for Evander Kane?

Imagine if it's not "worst case" with him. He's cleared of actually betting on his own games or whatever. He remains a loose cannon, gambling addict (hopefully "former"), assaholic type... but... also one of the best pure power forwards in the game today. For $7M for 4 years.

It's pretty hard to argue against his potential value on the ice. I would say the vast majority of us wouldn't take his off-ice baggage, even if he's cleared of the "worst case" stuff.

But anybody want to take a different position? Say he's cleared and SJ is giving him away "for free". Anybody?

He might get cleared but he brings a lot of baggage and San Jose would probably need to retain for someone to take him. I’ve watched a lot of Kane last year with him being on my fantasy team in my money league and I will say he is solid. I think he will cleared of the gambling on his team. And if he’s cheap and they retain I would think hard about it. He’s not gonna be look on to being a leader but he can definitely put pucks in the net

 

[OldFan]

He might get cleared but he brings a lot of baggage and San Jose would probably need to retain for someone to take him. I’ve watched a lot of Kane last year with him being on my fantasy team in my money league and I will say he is solid. I think he will cleared of the gambling on his team. And if he’s cheap and they retain I would think hard about it. He’s not gonna be look on to being a leader but he can definitely put pucks in the net

We know not every player is a choir boy but this guy has problems. The current accusation is suspect but nevertheless this is not a player for your young guys to look to for leadership. Vote no on him.

 

[Gh24]

Some players gets called locker room cancer way too easily, but if his teammates don't want him back this season then I think it's safe to say Kane really is one.

 

[PredsV82]

Uh, any takers for Evander Kane?

Imagine if it's not "worst case" with him. He's cleared of actually betting on his own games or whatever. He remains a loose cannon, gambling addict (hopefully "former"), assaholic type... but... also one of the best pure power forwards in the game today. For $7M for 4 years.

It's pretty hard to argue against his potential value on the ice. I would say the vast majority of us wouldn't take his off-ice baggage, even if he's cleared of the "worst case" stuff.

But anybody want to take a different position? Say he's cleared and SJ is giving him away "for free". Anybody?

No. Effing. Way.
#hardpass

 

[101st_fan]

Me not giving a shit if the Preds lose Grimaldi for nothing has nothing to do with all that other stuff. I'm not advocating any moves, just expressing my feelings about Grimaldi.

Rocco is a bottom six energy guy who can occasionally chip in. Not a star, not something I want to lose for nothing. A late round pick, longshot prospect, or him as part of a trade package for a full time, middle six forward is what I'd expect coming back if we do move on from him while still under contract. He's that guy fans want to cheer for but we all know isn't going to make a leap up from where he's been the past few years.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Whatever, get whatever you can or get nothing through waivers if he's in the way of keeping up a youngster that is performing. MY point is that I don't give a shit if it's something or nothing, I'm not going to lose sleep either way.

If need be Poile will either try to force him through waivers when there is a glut of available players and teams are trying to get down to the roster limit or he'll send a youngster down to protect Rocco and most likely try to find a trading partner at some point during the season. I fully understand how these things work but again, I don't give a shit which one he does or if Poile gets value for him as long as Rocco isn't in the way of a youngster.

Feel free to feel another way and have your opinion of Rocco, I've stayed mine.

 

[101st_fan]

If burying Grimaldi is due to bringing in a FA forward then we're still sending a youngster down, plus Grimaldi. Bringing in a Tatar-like player on a short term contract means he isn't in contention for Milwaukee and as it stands right now we have Pitlick (waiver exposed), Tomasino, Jeannot, Olivier, and Glass ... at a minimum ... fighting for roster spots before bringing in a FA forward. That's assuming Trenin, Forsberg, Johansen, Duchene, Granlund, Sissons, Kunin, Cousins and Tolvanen are safe with Grimaldi fighting with the youngsters for a slot during camp ... 15 forwards for 12 starting slots ... plus any FA signings. The numbers show a trade will have to happen either for prospects/picks to clear space for a FA signing or for an asset in lieu of signing a FA.

Having multiple players fighting for slots during camp and a large percentage of them on two-way deals and waiver exempt is a good thing. Let the ones that EARN a spot on the 2nd and 3d lines stay up, send the others down to Milwaukee for further development. Duchene, Johansen, Forsberg likely heading into the season as the top line ... Granlund, Tolvanen, Kunin, Cousins (barring trade), comprising the bulk of the 2nd and 3rd lines. Sissons, Trenin and probably Jeannot as the 4th.

 

[Armourboy]

Whatever, get whatever you can or get nothing through waivers if he's in the way of keeping up a youngster that is performing. MY point is that I don't give a shit if it's something or nothing, I'm not going to lose sleep either way.

If need be Poile will either try to force him through waivers when there is a glut of available players and teams are trying to get down to the roster limit or he'll send a youngster down to protect Rocco and most likely try to find a trading partner at some point during the season. I fully understand how these things work but again, I don't give a shit which one he does or if Poile gets value for him as long as Rocco isn't in the way of a youngster.

Feel free to feel another way and have your opinion of Rocco, I've stayed mine.

I get the sentiment but losing him for nothing is silly even if it just a very late round pick. Occasionally those guys hit ( Rinne and Hornqvist in our case) so might as well get it and take a stab at it if you can.

Grimaldi isn't going to block anyone if they earn the spot. If they get sent down it's not going to be to keep him.

 

[desmondtootoo]

Preds fan base is the proverbial “champagne tastes on a beer budget”.

But it’s an odd version of that. Instead of it being based just in money, it’s in a very odd view of the value of players.

The “royal we” is just head over heels in love with guys like Grimaldi, Fabbro, Pitlick, Tolvanen, Smith, Jarnkrok.

Yet players like Kessel, Kane, Tatar, Domi …. Are horrible, worthless. Really quite poopy and stinky if you read some of the chatter here, lol.
These are guys who could actually make a difference on the ice, in the locker room, in the team’s weak constitution and offense.
But nooo, instead, let’s never let loose of a bunch of guys who are in year 7 of “he’s really gonna do it this year”.
Oh, and let’s avoid scoring goals, like forever.

 

[Gh24]

Preds fan base is the proverbial “champagne tastes on a beer budget”.

But it’s an odd version of that. Instead of it being based just in money, it’s in a very odd view of the value of players.

The “royal we” is just head over heels in love with guys like Grimaldi, Fabbro, Pitlick, Tolvanen, Smith, Jarnkrok.

Yet players like Kessel, Kane, Tatar, Domi …. Are horrible, worthless. Really quite poopy and stinky if you read some of the chatter here, lol.
These are guys who could actually make a difference on the ice, in the locker room, in the team’s weak constitution and offense.
But nooo, instead, let’s never let loose of a bunch of guys who are in year 7 of “he’s really gonna do it this year”.
Oh, and let’s avoid scoring goals, like forever.

There's more to it than just a player's value in a vacuum.

Kessel would bring value to us this season, but if it means it stalls someone's development, then the price of it isn't just the assets that were used to acquire him. After one season we could be without both Kessel and said assets. Are we one Kessel away from being a cup contender? I don't know, but that is something to consider. I'd like to see Kessel in Preds, but he's...unique. Locker room dynamics is a thing and if there's someone who is known for having trouble into buying into team strategies then it's a good question if he should be added to the group or not.

Kane would definitely make a difference in the locker room. A negative one, though. His current teammates wants him out and is apparently disregarding team rules by being late etc. that has a ripple effect on the younger players. Ooooh I'd love to have a player like that to show the way to the kids. Maybe he can give them few gambling tips and take them out for drinks too?

If Domi plays wing I'd be on board, IF the cost isn't too high. He's what, 26 and on his way out of third or fourth team? Raises questions, but yes, could be a difference maker.

Tatar is likely looking for a multi year deal and depending on the situation with Ekholm and Forsberg there's a good chance we don't want to commit to him that long. He would be good for us right now, but if he's asking for something like 4 million a season and our younger players break out then we will end up paying a 3rd liner top 6 money and we're calling out Poile for making terrible deals?


There's also a difference between hoping to see the younger guys get a real chance and knowing what would be best for our chances for a deep run this year. On one hand you can give the kids more experience and probably not do that great and on the other hand you spend assets to (temporarily) upgrade your team, at least on paper and post-pone bringing the kids in. Optimal solution could be somewhere in between, it's not that black and white, but you have to understand that people view this matter from many perspectives. Short term and long term.

 

[desmondtootoo]

Preds aren’t really supposed to be a developmental team. That’s up to Milwaukee and others. We are in the bigs, where each team should try to win each year.
Of course we all know with reasonable certainty who’s gonna be a winning team and who is not each year, but come on, at least give it the old effort.
Right now we are saddled with bums / bad signings, and 101 prospects. We shouldn’t just accept that as our lot in life.
We could be a team that’s gonna suck from game one onward, or maybe game 15.
But we should at least try to avoid it.
A team who’s big acquisitions are Myers and Glass ….. is not even trying.
We have a GM and a fan base that’s quite happy with the status quo, even when the status quo is hollowed out and shaky. That’s sad. We love our career Admirals, career ‘tweeners, and little euros. All else is ugly and scary.

 

[herzausstein]

We are what we are now. No addition I’d going to make us look great compared to Tampa or Colorado. I’m not saying to pack it in… just we need to accept that this is most likely not our year and let the young players get some development in

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I get the sentiment but losing him for nothing is silly even if it just a very late round pick. Occasionally those guys hit ( Rinne and Hornqvist in our case) so might as well get it and take a stab at it if you can.

Grimaldi isn't going to block anyone if they earn the spot. If they get sent down it's not going to be to keep him.

I don't really care about losing Grimaldi for nothing. In fact, I'd be happy to lose him for nothing.... and see him get a chance on another NHL team.

I'm just being more sentimental in worrying that he doesn't get that chance with another NHL team if we dump him, despite me thinking he is definitely a legit NHL player and should have one.

But I guess there's also a little bit of an argument to be made in this sense: If Grimaldi is basically our 13th forward, and if our coach doesn't plan on using Glass/Tomasino in regular roles where they can actually develop their higher end skills in the NHL and they start falling into pressbox duty instead... then... perhaps there's also an argument for just keeping Grimaldi around as that part-time player here, while Glass/Tomasino get 1st line prime ice in Milwaukee.

 

[Gh24]

A team who’s big acquisitions are Myers and Glass ….. is not even trying.

Trying what exactly? To be competitive this year or to be competitive for several years onward?

 

[101st_fan]

There's more to it than just a player's value in a vacuum.

Kessel would bring value to us this season, but if it means it stalls someone's development, then the price of it isn't just the assets that were used to acquire him. After one season we could be without both Kessel and said assets. Are we one Kessel away from being a cup contender? I don't know, but that is something to consider. I'd like to see Kessel in Preds, but he's...unique. Locker room dynamics is a thing and if there's someone who is known for having trouble into buying into team strategies then it's a good question if he should be added to the group or not.

Kane would definitely make a difference in the locker room. A negative one, though. His current teammates wants him out and is apparently disregarding team rules by being late etc. that has a ripple effect on the younger players. Ooooh I'd love to have a player like that to show the way to the kids. Maybe he can give them few gambling tips and take them out for drinks too?

If Domi plays wing I'd be on board, IF the cost isn't too high. He's what, 26 and on his way out of third or fourth team? Raises questions, but yes, could be a difference maker.

Tatar is likely looking for a multi year deal and depending on the situation with Ekholm and Forsberg there's a good chance we don't want to commit to him that long. He would be good for us right now, but if he's asking for something like 4 million a season and our younger players break out then we will end up paying a 3rd liner top 6 money and we're calling out Poile for making terrible deals?


There's also a difference between hoping to see the younger guys get a real chance and knowing what would be best for our chances for a deep run this year. On one hand you can give the kids more experience and probably not do that great and on the other hand you spend assets to (temporarily) upgrade your team, at least on paper and post-pone bringing the kids in. Optimal solution could be somewhere in between, it's not that black and white, but you have to understand that people view this matter from many perspectives. Short term and long term.

Kessel, Domi, and Tatar are the only three viable options in this latest series of posts (there are plenty of other players not in discussion of late) with the sideshow surrounding E. Kane a disqualifying factor. Tatar is unlikely to jump at an affordable one year deal here making him a long shot. That leaves Domi and Kessel ... Kessel as the more consistent scoring option. It At that point it becomes a question of transaction cost and willingness of Kessel to waive his NTC to come to Nashville if he is the target rather than Domi. Would Cousins/Grimaldi + a couple early to mid round picks (say hypothetically 2022 2nd and 3rd) + maybe Benning be enough to get one year of Kessel? Who knows with the way the Yotes are stockpiling picks for 2022 with seven picks in the first two rounds as of now.