Speculation: Armchair GM and Rumors Thread XXIII - FLAMES RELATED (Mikael Backlund Appreciation)

[Tkachuk Norris]

Lots of good info in there Calc, thanks for sharing.

The highlight for me was this:



Particularly the latter half.

Hamilton trade rumours = chupacabre

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

For discussion's sake though, would Nylander be a good return? I don't like that we'd be left short on D, but we're definitely not getting Reilly back. Don't need another center either...

A power-play specialist winger for a top pairing, possession-monster, point-producing right shot defenseman?

Would be terrible return.

 

[Rangediddy]

A power-play specialist winger for a top pairing, possession-monster, point-producing right shot defenseman?

Would be terrible return.

I've never watched Nylander play other than maybe the one game we played last year he was in.

I thought he was a center as well? I've heard Leafs fans (so obviously take it with a grain of salt) that he's a potential #1 center on most teams.

I just likened that to us saying Dougie has potential to be a #1 dman on most teams as well. Had to think value was close in some way.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I've never watched Nylander play other than maybe the one game we played last year he was in.

I thought he was a center as well? I've heard Leafs fans (so obviously take it with a grain of salt) that he's a potential #1 center on most teams.

He was a centre in the AHL but he's absolutely a winger in the NHL. This season he's spent the whole year on Matthews' wing. The Leafs only have one future #1 centre and that is Matthews. Marner/Nylander are wingers, Kadri is a #2, and Bozak is a #3.

 

[Rangediddy]

He was a centre in the AHL but he's absolutely a winger in the NHL. This season he's spent the whole year on Matthews' wing. The Leafs only have one future #1 centre and that is Matthews. Marner/Nylander are wingers, Kadri is a #2, and Bozak is a #3.

Because he (would be) behind Matthews as #1 Center is like saying Malkin is a #2 center on Pittsburgh. It doesn't mean he's not a #1 caliber center.

I'm not arguing that he is or isn't, that's just the picture I've seen painted for his value. Is he only playing on Matthews wing because of chemistry early or is their plan to keep him as a winger for the long term?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He was a centre in the AHL but he's absolutely a winger in the NHL. This season he's spent the whole year on Matthews' wing. The Leafs only have one future #1 centre and that is Matthews. Marner/Nylander are wingers, Kadri is a #2, and Bozak is a #3.

Nylander has played centre everywhere he's been, including the 22 games he played with the Leafs last year. Babcock is just starting him on the wing at the start of his career, which isn't unheard of for centres.

Because he (would be) behind Matthews as #1 Center is like saying Malkin is a #2 center on Pittsburgh. It doesn't mean he's not a #1 caliber center.

I'm not arguing that he is or isn't, that's just the picture I've seen painted for his value. Is he only playing on Matthews wing because of chemistry early or is their plan to keep him as a winger for the long term?

I'm not in Leafs management's head but the plan shouldn't be to have him on the wing long term. It'd be a complete waste of his talent. Nylander looks better when he's at centre than when he's at wing.

 

[BigRangy]

Nylander will be a good player, somewhere in the Forsberg tier, but he's not a guy that you trade a Hamilton or Brodie for.

The Flames already have 4 supposed offensive studs up front, let them develop before trading down your defensive talent.

 

[SKRusty]

I've never watched Nylander play other than maybe the one game we played last year he was in.

I thought he was a center as well? I've heard Leafs fans (so obviously take it with a grain of salt) that he's a potential #1 center on most teams.

I just likened that to us saying Dougie has potential to be a #1 dman on most teams as well. Had to think value was close in some way.

Dougie is vying with Gio for #1 as we speak talent wise. Talent wise it is like comparing Matthews and McDavid as equals to Nylander.

It is akin to comparing Dougie, Ekblad, Lindholm, Ekmann-Larsson to Dumba who may be a #1 D on some teams.

For Dougie to Toronto Nylander, Jake Gardiner and a 2nd at least.

 

[Mobiandi]

Just wondering. How open would any of you guys be to trading our 1st round pick after the draft lottery?

 

[Calculon]

Friedman:

11. With Burns signed, the top free-agent defencemen are probably Washington’s Karl Alzner and Kevin Shattenkirk of St. Louis. Blues GM Doug Armstrong proved with David Backes that if he thinks his team is good enough, he’ll go for it. And we know Washington is all-in. The market for defenders is high, because it’s so hard to find them. Good ones will get what they want. Nick Kypreos reported last weekend Alzner is asking between $5.5M-$6M from the Capitals. I do think they value Alzner — a lot — but don’t see how they could get there without a major corresponding move. Could see Western Canada’s teams throwing themselves at him.

1. Almost certainly an opening number; actual cap hit will likely be lower
2. Capitals have a lot of key pieces to re-sign this summer including Kuznetsov, Oshie, Williams, Burakovsky and Alzner and about 20M to play with. So unless they lose Orpik to Vegas, good chance Alzner should be available this summer.

 

[BigRangy]

Just wondering. How open would any of you guys be to trading our 1st round pick after the draft lottery?

I think that the forwards available around #10 this year are roughly similar to last season, but there are a few very talented euros that might slip due to visibility. I'd really have to see who's on the board when the pick comes up.

Also, I've been scheming some potential Gio trades if he keeps playing well and the season becomes lost. Mostly wishful thinking, but I think the value should be close ish.

Criteria for a Gio trade:

destination is a team that's ready to compete this year or next
return is one future elite stud+cap dumps as necessary

To Montreal:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Sergachev
dump (DD probably)

To Ottawa:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Thomas Chabot
dump(Ryan or Phaneuf) <-the Flames might have to add a decent piece since these guys aren't total dumps. Chabot is the value we're after though.

To Columbus:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Ryan Murray
dump

If I had to pick one to do it would be the Ottawa trade, I'm highest on Chabot out of the three valuable pieces. I think they're quite willing to get rid of Ryan, so maybe the Flames wouldn't need to add that much. Thoughts?

 

[Sparky93]

I think that the forwards available around #10 this year are roughly similar to last season, but there are a few very talented euros that might slip due to visibility. I'd really have to see who's on the board when the pick comes up.

Also, I've been scheming some potential Gio trades if he keeps playing well and the season becomes lost. Mostly wishful thinking, but I think the value should be close ish.

Criteria for a Gio trade:

destination is a team that's ready to compete this year or next
return is one future elite stud+cap dumps as necessary

To Montreal:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Sergachev
dump (DD probably)

To Ottawa:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Thomas Chabot
dump(Ryan or Phaneuf) <-the Flames might have to add a decent piece since these guys aren't total dumps. Chabot is the value we're after though.

To Columbus:
Giordano

To Calgary:
Ryan Murray
dump

If I had to pick one to do it would be the Ottawa trade, I'm highest on Chabot out of the three valuable pieces. I think they're quite willing to get rid of Ryan, so maybe the Flames wouldn't need to add that much. Thoughts?

I think at this point in his career and taking into consideration the contract, we'd be lucky to get Gardiner + Connor Brown. I don't see teams giving up young, cheap future studs for him and I want no part of the Ottawa one.

 

[The CyNick]

Dougie is vying with Gio for #1 as we speak talent wise. Talent wise it is like comparing Matthews and McDavid as equals to Nylander.

It is akin to comparing Dougie, Ekblad, Lindholm, Ekmann-Larsson to Dumba who may be a #1 D on some teams.

For Dougie to Toronto Nylander, Jake Gardiner and a 2nd at least.

Its funny when a fanbase thinks a guy who by all accounts is struggling should fetch more than top dollar.

Anything is possible, but I think most people would say Hamilton's contact doesn't look so good right now, so his value is probably lower than the Flames value him. He was worth a 15th, 45th, and 52nd pick. You're asking for 2 1sts and a 2nd. We've been down that road, don't see this management group making the same mistake.

 

[Rangediddy]

Dougie is vying with Gio for #1 as we speak talent wise. Talent wise it is like comparing Matthews and McDavid as equals to Nylander.

It is akin to comparing Dougie, Ekblad, Lindholm, Ekmann-Larsson to Dumba who may be a #1 D on some teams.

For Dougie to Toronto Nylander, Jake Gardiner and a 2nd at least.

I didn't say all #1Cs are equal, but saying someone is a #1C just means they could be a #1C on any team if they didn't already have one. It's not comparing Nylander to Matthews or McDavid, its just a broad label for a player and it's used all the time, I'm pretty sure it's a widely understood practice.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Just wondering. How open would any of you guys be to trading our 1st round pick after the draft lottery?

Depends on the return. I would love to add a player like Brock Boeser even if it cost our first. And yes, I think Boeser will be better than Nolan Patrick when it's all said and done.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Its funny when a fanbase thinks a guy who by all accounts is struggling should fetch more than top dollar.

Anything is possible, but I think most people would say Hamilton's contact doesn't look so good right now, so his value is probably lower than the Flames value him. He was worth a 15th, 45th, and 52nd pick. You're asking for 2 1sts and a 2nd. We've been down that road, don't see this management group making the same mistake.

How is Hamilton struggling?
He's been arguably our best d-man this season. Him and Giordano still haven't allowed an ES goal against since being paired together ~10 games ago.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Just wondering. How open would any of you guys be to trading our 1st round pick after the draft lottery?

If it's not a top 3 pick, and it (the return) fills a long term need, sure.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Friedman:



1. Almost certainly an opening number; actual cap hit will likely be lower
2. Capitals have a lot of key pieces to re-sign this summer including Kuznetsov, Oshie, Williams, Burakovsky and Alzner and about 20M to play with. So unless they lose Orpik to Vegas, good chance Alzner should be available this summer.

Hopefully we pursue Alzner hard in the off-season.
Our top 4 would look something like this:
Giordano-Brodie
Alzner-Hamilton

or

Giordano-Hamilton
Alzner-Brodie

Then you can play either Jokkipakka or Kulak (assuming we lose one to Vegas) on the 3rd pairing with a depth signing or maybe a Kylington, Wotherspoon or Andersson assuming they make the jump.

If we can't get Alzner I'd love to get Oduya, he's still solid defensively and he's familiar with Kylington!

 

[BigRangy]

Its funny when a fanbase thinks a guy who by all accounts is struggling should fetch more than top dollar.

Anything is possible, but I think most people would say Hamilton's contact doesn't look so good right now, so his value is probably lower than the Flames value him. He was worth a 15th, 45th, and 52nd pick. You're asking for 2 1sts and a 2nd. We've been down that road, don't see this management group making the same mistake.

By all accounts is struggling? This narrative couldn't be further from the truth.

Leads Calgary D in points, -3 when T.J. Brodie is -goddamn 14, adding a mean streak to his game.

Leafs fans need to pull their heads out of their *****. Sweeney traded him for a quarter of his value last summer. Our GM will not make the same franchise-disrupting and rebuild-destroying mistake.

Would the Sabres take JVR+spare parts for Risto? Would Anaheim take JVR+spare parts for Lindholm? This is the kind of asset you're trying to acquire here. Dougie is 23 years old and is already an elite offensive force from the backend. Young RHD don't get any better. Just last year, Johansen got traded for Jones. JVR+spare parts isn't even close to the value of a young, RFA, 1st line centre. That is the minimum bid for Hamilton.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

How is Hamilton struggling?
He's been arguably our best d-man this season. Him and Giordano still haven't allowed an ES goal against since being paired together ~10 games ago.

Wait actually? That's like super impressive