Speculation: Armchair GM and Rumors Thread XXII - FLAMES RELATED (Matt Stajan Appreciation inside)

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DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
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Not as positives no. Signing free agents any club can do. Brouwer and Frolik are overpayed. That's what happens with FA.

Good GMs add players to their organizations from Europe, college FA, and cheap deals around a million. When has Treliving ever had a successful move? Keep trashing me if you like. But no one can assert that question because it hasn't happened... In three seasons. That's extremely concerning to me.

- Signed Jakub Nakladal
- Signed Daniel Rittich
- Claimed Schlemko off waivers
- Signed Linden Vey (still waiting to see how that plays out but it is a cheap deal under $1M)
- Signed Daniel Pribyl
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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I think it's more than what exact players Tre has brought in or let go. It's the path he's put the team on. He's known we're a rebuilding team and likely figured there was no point in bringing in anyone decent in the first few years so we could stock the cupboards with prospects and good young talent. That along with the anchor contracts coming off at the end of this year, I think this trade deadline and next off season is where we see Treliving really put his stamp on this franchise.

He's locked up the core long term (assuming Johnny's 6+ years) and is likely biding his time until he has actual cap space to bring in that competitive middle 6.

It's true there are lots of aspects he does great. Don't get me wrong. He's not the worst GM. He's good at trading, he's the best negotiator around contract wise (I think). It's just his/our managements ability to identify and aquire cheap yet effective players that fill out the roster.

We are going to be close to the cap and if we are going to be successful for a long time we are going to have to start bringing in cheap talent. We cant give 30 year old free agents 4 year deals anymore. We'll lose a star player if we do.

That's concerning to me.
 

MonyontheMoney

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Apr 5, 2015
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Like I said, it wasn't directed at you, Volica just thought I'd throw in a blanket statement in my quote rather than double posting.:laugh:
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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I wonder if Sven Androghetto is available. He's a good little player and I think he could improve our top 9. He might not make Montreal's roster so he could be had on the cheap.
 

MonyontheMoney

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- Signed Jakub Nakladal
- Signed Daniel Rittich
- Claimed Schlemko off waivers
- Signed Linden Vey (still waiting to see how that plays out but it is a cheap deal under $1M)
- Signed Daniel Pribyl

- Was Hathaway a Treliving move?
- F. Hamilton for a conditional 7th (which I don't believe we ever gave up)
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Add Schneider, DBU.

Not as positives no. Signing free agents any club can do. Brouwer and Frolik are overpayed. That's what happens with FA.

Good GMs add players to their organizations from Europe, college FA, and cheap deals around a million. When has Treliving ever had a successful move? Keep trashing me if you like. But no one can answer that question because it hasn't happened... In three seasons. That's extremely concerning to me.

As for the draft. That's Button that gets credit. Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk were all painfully obvious picks.

Well, putting aside the fact that Treliving has signed guys in every one of those categories (how could you write that post and not think of all the European, college and reclamation contracts he's signed?), that's a fairly arbitrary evaluation tool. A GM's job encompasses a lot of different things. Read Jim Rutherford's article to get a better sense of it. There's trades, there's free agent signings, there's scouting, there's managing of personalities, there's hiring the front office, and above all else it is the GM's (boring) job to ensure the profitability of the organization.

Personally, I have not liked Treliving's trades in general. I've liked his "sells" but disliked his "buys." But every other part of his job I've found to be very good, with the obvious exception of waiving good-bye to Lord Byron.
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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- Signed Jakub Nakladal
- Signed Daniel Rittich
- Claimed Schlemko off waivers
- Signed Linden Vey (still waiting to see how that plays out but it is a cheap deal under $1M)
- Signed Daniel Pribyl

Sclemko was smart. Then we let him go for nothing :laugh:

Nak played like 15 games

Vey/Rittich.TBD

Pribyl is hopefully the next Robert Lang that Treliving compared him to. That would be amazing although I'm sceptical.

Jokkipakka was good.

Still. Not nearly enough.
 

DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
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Calgary
Sclemko was smart. Then we let him go for nothing :laugh:

Nak played like 15 games

Vey/Rittich.TBD

Pribyl is hopefully the next Robert Lang that Treliving compared him to. That would be amazing although I'm sceptical.

Jokkipakka was good.

Still. Not nearly enough.

It's only been 3 years though, what more were you expecting?

For what it's worth, here's Feaster's first three years with Calgary (as GM, 2008 to 2011)):
- trades for Fredrik Modin (bad)
- trades Erixon+ for Horak+ (good)
- gives an NTC to Babchuk (bad)
- trades for PL3 (bad)
- trades Regehr+ for Butler+ (short version, still a debatable deal in most people's eyes)

So is Tree actually that much worse than Feaster at this point in time? I'd argue no.
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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Answer my question though. Who has Treliving brought in that has helped this team? What NHL caliber players? Only Jooris and we cut him away for worse players in Korpikoski and Higgins.

I don't count FA because it requires overpayment.

I included Smid and Stajan because they were deals signed by our current management (although you might be right Smid might have been signed by Feaster). Burke has a role to play on this team. He deserves criticism for the deals he made. As does Treliving.
So I'm not allowed to use free agents, so that leaves me with trades during a rebuild and draft picks during a 2 year and 4 month tenure? Talk about trying to stack the deck in your favor through manipulating what is "allowed". What a joke :laugh:

Again Smid was acquired in a trade by Feaster, his contract was signed by Kevin Lowe.
 

Skobel24

#Ignited
May 23, 2008
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Look at Sutter. Always found good depth guys.. Tree? Who did he add?

Sutter also wasted countless draft picks and failed to address the biggest need for Calgary in his entire tenure. He's the main reason Calgary had to tear things down shortly after he left.
 

Volica

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May 15, 2012
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Personally, I have not liked Treliving's trades in general. I've liked his "sells" but disliked his "buys." But every other part of his job I've found to be very good, with the obvious exception of waiving good-bye to Lord Byron.

Just out of curiosity, which ones have haven't you liked?
Hamilton for Senyshyn, Forsbacka-Karlsson & Lauzon
Shinkaruk for Granlund
Shore for Knight
Freddie for nothing
Elliott for 2nd & 3rd
Sven for Andersson

I can see not liking the Sven one, but his hands were tied (some folks give Feaster the benefit of the Iggy trade because of hand tying, this is the same situation); maybe the Granlund one? But to be honest, Granny's would be playing behind Monahan, Bennett, Backlund; and his play isn't suited for the fourth line.

Outside of that, I see 3 clear wins and a 'n1curr' move with Knight :laugh:
 

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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Sutter also wasted countless draft picks and failed to address the biggest need for Calgary in his entire tenure. He's the main reason Calgary had to tear things down shortly after he left.
2nds for depth players = success apparently
 

Kahvi

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It's true there are lots of aspects he does great. Don't get me wrong. He's not the worst GM. He's good at trading, he's the best negotiator around contract wise (I think). It's just his/our managements ability to identify and aquire cheap yet effective players that fill out the roster.

We are going to be close to the cap and if we are going to be successful for a long time we are going to have to start bringing in cheap talent. We cant give 30 year old free agents 4 year deals anymore. We'll lose a star player if we do.

That's concerning to me.

edit: nm
 

DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
38,094
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Calgary
Add Schneider, DBU.
Forgot about Schneider. +1

Just out of curiosity, which ones have haven't you liked?
Hamilton for Senyshyn, Forsbacka-Karlsson & Lauzon
Shinkaruk for Granlund
Shore for Knight
Freddie for nothing
Elliott for 2nd & 3rd
Sven for Andersson

I can see not liking the Sven one, but his hands were tied (some folks give Feaster the benefit of the Iggy trade because of hand tying, this is the same situation); maybe the Granlund one? But to be honest, Granny's would be playing behind Monahan, Bennett, Backlund; and his play isn't suited for the fourth line.

Outside of that, I see 3 clear wins and a 'n1curr' move with Knight :laugh:

Agreed with this; overall, Treliving's "purchases" have gotten progressively better over the years.
 

Skobel24

#Ignited
May 23, 2008
16,789
920
Winnipeg
Just out of curiosity, which ones have haven't you liked?
Hamilton for Senyshyn, Forsbacka-Karlsson & Lauzon
Shinkaruk for Granlund
Shore for Knight
Freddie for nothing
Elliott for 2nd & 3rd
Sven for Andersson

I can see not liking the Sven one, but his hands were tied (some folks give Feaster the benefit of the Iggy trade because of hand tying, this is the same situation); maybe the Granlund one? But to be honest, Granny's would be playing behind Monahan, Bennett, Backlund; and his play isn't suited for the fourth line.

Outside of that, I see 3 clear wins and a 'n1curr' move with Knight :laugh:

I didn't like Shore for Knight. I really liked Knight, and saw him as the future #4 C.

I disliked the Sven trade at the time, but it wasn't really about the value. I was just disappointed knowing that even if they hadn't traded him, he wouldn't re-sign with Calgary. He was supposed to be the future of Calgary.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
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Sutter also wasted countless draft picks and failed to address the biggest need for Calgary in his entire tenure. He's the main reason Calgary had to tear things down shortly after he left.

I agree. I don't like the way the team was managed when he was here. Feaster made some bad moves too.

But in general. Other than high first round picks and FA, Treliving hasn't added much talent to this roster to this point. That's concerning to me. That's all I'm arguing. When it comes to depth the majority of the moves have been negative. Don't see how anyone can argue differently.

We need to do better in the future or this team is going to continue to be held back by its lack of depth up front.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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I take it back now that you list the trades. I have been hung up a little on my first impression... Bollig for a 3rd. Still not sure about the Hamilton trade until he really blossoms.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Victoria
I agree. I don't like the way the team was managed when he was here. Feaster made some bad moves too.

But in general. Other than high first round picks and FA, Treliving hasn't added much talent to this roster to this point. That's concerning to me. That's all I'm arguing. When it comes to depth the majority of the moves have been negative. Don't see how anyone can argue differently.

We need to do better in the future or this team is going to continue to be held back by its lack of depth up front.

This is true of every team. Teams are built through the draft, and other than that you rarely get something for nothing.
 

Flames Fanatic

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Aug 14, 2008
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Just to get my two cents in before a new thread starts, Treliving has been solid, but not perfect. Better than I expected to be honest when we hired him. He's made some solid deals.

And as much as people moan about the Brouwer signing, people would be even more upset if we were going into training camp with Chiasson and Frolik as our only legit RW players, and Frolik and Gaudreau as the only legit top six wing options.

Lets see how Brouwer does as well this season. I really feel like he could be the Hudler like influence for Bennett and Tkachuk.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Victoria
I don't understand any complaining about the Frolik and Brouwer signings. In a perfect world, we'd have prospects ready to take those roles, but we didn't. We had to go out and get guys, and we got guys on reasonable deals for UFAs.
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
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Spector's saying if EDM trades Yak to the Hawks, it'll be for AHLer's w/Edmonton retaining salary. Has he really been that horrible!?
 

SmellOfVictory

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Jun 3, 2011
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I don't understand any complaining about the Frolik and Brouwer signings. In a perfect world, we'd have prospects ready to take those roles, but we didn't. We had to go out and get guys, and we got guys on reasonable deals for UFAs.

The Frolik signing was amazing, because he's an excellent player. The Brouwer signing was only bad because he got overpaid. Brouwer at 3.5? Sure. At 4.5, though, you're paying a lot for a guy who relies heavily on lots of PP time to put up points, is on the older side, and is effectively a 3rd liner at even strength.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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How not to manage an asset 101 by the Edmonton Oilers.

Hard to see Yakupov working out under Quenneville though. W
 
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