Proposal: Arizona/Ottawa 6 player swap

[Mosby]

To Arizona:
Chris Tierney
Anders Nilsson

To Ottawa:
Derek Stepan
Vinny Hinostroza
Antti Raanta
Marian Hossa

Key points:

This is largely to help Arizona create cap space to re-sign Taylor Hall.

The deal shifts about $12M in cap to Ottawa but only increases their existing budget by about 800k since Stepan and Raanta have already been paid signing bonuses, more than half of their contracts for next season.

Hossa is only owed $200k after LTIR insurance. Hossa also helps Ottawa stay above the floor if they move out a salary like Anisimov midseason.

Raanta becomes the starter in Ottawa (assuming Anderson is done) but still leaves enough playing time for Hogberg. Nilsson backs up in AZ.

Both Tierney and Hinostroza are RFAs.

Click to read more...

 

[rt]

To Arizona:
Chris Tierney
Anders Nilsson

To Ottawa:
Derek Stepan
Vinny Hinostroza
Antti Raanta
Marian Hossa

Key points:

This is largely to help Arizona create cap space to re-sign Taylor Hall.

The deal shifts about $12M in cap to Ottawa but only increases their existing budget by about 800k since Stepan and Raanta have already been paid signing bonuses, more than half of their contracts for next season.

Hossa is only owed $200k after LTIR insurance. Hossa also helps Ottawa stay above the floor if they move out a salary like Anisimov midseason.

Raanta becomes the starter in Ottawa (assuming Anderson is done) but still leaves enough playing time for Hogberg. Nilsson backs up in AZ.

Both Tierney and Hinostroza are RFAs.

Just because it's bound to come up again and again, I thought I'd reiterated your point:

"...deal shifts about $12M in cap to Ottawa but only increases their existing budget by about 800k since Stepan and Raanta have already been paid signing bonuses..."

 

[Meeqs]

Thats actually not a bad proposal.

With that being said, I think with the number of teams that will seriously need to clear cap space, Ott will have a lot of options to really get some great deals. So while this does an excellent job addressing needs of both teams, Arz might need to sweeten the deal more than usual due to the competition for Otts weaponized cap space.

Overall well done and well thought out

 

[howkie]

I think Senetots would want more value. They can take lot of contracts for 12 mil with attached assets. Here they get really nothing....

 

[h2]

I'd do it.

 

[Mosby]

Also worth noting how effective Antti Raanta has been, especially since his first year in NY onward. Among goalies with 140 GP since 2015-16:

1. Raanta, 147 GP, .923
2. Bishop, 243 GP, .922
3. Kuemper, 152 GP, .921
4. Lehner, 215 GP, .920
5. Grubauer, 154 GP, .920
6. Vasilevskiy, 244, GP, .919
7. Crawford, 220 GP, .919
8. Gibson, 261 GP, .918
9. Rask, 270 GP, .917
10. Hellebuyck, 270 GP, .917

Yeah there's been some durability issues, although some of that has been fluky injuries (car accident, skate blade coming off his skate, etc.), but Raanta is a phenomenal goalie, all for $2.25M in real dollars. You're lucky to get a decent backup via UFA for that price these days. Arizona would love to keep him, but it just seems unlikely given current cap constraints and the emergence of Kuemper.

 

[rt]

I think Senetots would want more value. They can take lot of contracts for 12 mil with attached assets. Here they get really nothing....

Ottawa doesn’t get “nothing”. They get quality veteran players that can really help their team, and be good for their youngsters. Help those players get experience in more competitive games, and have a more competitive season.

Over the last three seasons, there isn't a single goalie in the NHL (at least 50 total games played) with a higher combined SV% than Antti Raanta. There are only 5 NHL goalies (with at least 50gp in that time) with a better GAA in that span.

The incentive is that both are on expiring contracts. Both can help Ottawa stay in games. Stepan is an excellent defensive forward and renowned leader. Viewed as a player/coach. Mentor for young players. When he’s healthy, Raanta puts up top 5 goalie numbers in the NHL.

These guys are tailor-made to help mitigate the mistakes skilled young players make. To help support them and keep them from getting too badly burned. Edmonton failed to insulate their young stars for many years. And it cost them dearly. Ottawa would be wise to avoid this trap. These young players need to learn how to win in the NHL.

It’s a good deal for Ottawa because it costs them nothing. They get the support, and mentorship from these vets for a season. Given that they have expiring contracts, Ottawa can decide to flip them for assets at the deadline, ride out the season with them, or sign them to cheaper contracts than they’re on.

This isn’t a typical dump of useless players. That’s why you don’t need draft pick now. You can actually get picks later. Teams will actually want these guys at the deadline. Because they’re good players. And they’re on expiring deals. And Ottawa can retain salary.

 

[Meeqs]

Also worth noting how effective Antti Raanta has been, especially since his first year in NY onward. Among goalies with 140 GP since 2015-16:

1. Raanta, 147 GP, .923
2. Bishop, 243 GP, .922
3. Kuemper, 152 GP, .921
4. Lehner, 215 GP, .920
5. Grubauer, 154 GP, .920
6. Vasilevskiy, 244, GP, .919
7. Crawford, 220 GP, .919
8. Gibson, 261 GP, .918
9. Rask, 270 GP, .917
10. Hellebuyck, 270 GP, .917

Yeah there's been some durability issues, although some of that has been fluky injuries (car accident, skate blade coming off his skate, etc.), but Raanta is a phenomenal goalie, all for $2.25M in real dollars. You're lucky to get a decent backup via UFA for that price these days. Arizona would love to keep him, but it just seems unlikely given current cap constraints and the emergence of Kuemper.

Raanta was hella good but with his age and injury history that doesn't really provide much value for the rebuilding goals of the Sens. There are plenty of teams that would value that but for this specific conversation idk if Ott is one of them.

SJ for example would be a good target

 

[RedWingzz]

I think you'd need to sweeten the pot for the Sens to do this. Add a prospect and I think it makes sense.

 

[TheNewEra]

Thats actually not a bad proposal.

With that being said, I think with the number of teams that will seriously need to clear cap space, Ott will have a lot of options to really get some great deals. So while this does an excellent job addressing needs of both teams, Arz might need to sweeten the deal more than usual due to the competition for Otts weaponized cap space.

Overall well done and well thought out

This is my view. Its a good proposal and if the cap was going up like normal then I would do it. Since the cap is flat for at least 1 season (potentially 3 but lets go with the surefire one) Ottawa would need more. That being said I am not sure what more to ask for since this offseason and circumstances really changes the value of cap space.

That being said again its a good proposal

 

[Pavlikovsky]

Ottawa doesn’t get “nothing”. They get quality veteran players that can really help their team, and be good for their youngsters. Help those players get experience in more competitive games, and have a more competitive season.

Over the last three seasons, there isn't a single goalie in the NHL (at least 50 total games played) with a higher combined SV% than Antti Raanta. There are only 5 NHL goalies (with at least 50gp in that time) with a better GAA in that span.

The incentive is that both are on expiring contracts. Both can help Ottawa stay in games. Stepan is an excellent defensive forward and renowned leader. Viewed as a player/coach. Mentor for young players. When he’s healthy, Raanta puts up top 5 goalie numbers in the NHL.

These guys are tailor-made to help mitigate the mistakes skilled young players make. To help support them and keep them from getting too badly burned. Edmonton failed to insulate their young stars for many years. And it cost them dearly. Ottawa would be wise to avoid this trap. These young players need to learn how to win in the NHL.

It’s a good deal for Ottawa because it costs them nothing. They get the support, and mentorship from these vets for a season. Given that they have expiring contracts, Ottawa can decide to flip them for assets at the deadline, ride out the season with them, or sign them to cheaper contracts than they’re on.

This isn’t a typical dump of useless players. That’s why you don’t need draft pick now. You can actually get picks later. Teams will actually want these guys at the deadline. Because they’re good players. And they’re on expiring deals. And Ottawa can retain salary.

I don't know about the renown leader and player coach part because I've never heard that about Stepan and after seeing what happened to him in the OTT-NYR playoffs a few years back i'm not sure he could be called either, him and Tierney are basically a wash same age similar stats with it favoring Tierney.

Edmonton had way more problems than that it was combo of their management, coaching decisions, and failure to develop their prospects more than anything that screwed them over.

Stepen and Hinostroza do not offer that any more support or mentorship than Tierney and Hossa is off sipping drink on the beach while on LTIR he's the only one who could offer that

All in all at best this is neutral for Ottawa could turn out good if Raanta plays well but taking 12mil of cap for neutral is not happening.

 

[howkie]

Ottawa doesn’t get “nothing”. They get quality veteran players that can really help their team, and be good for their youngsters. Help those players get experience in more competitive games, and have a more competitive season.

Over the last three seasons, there isn't a single goalie in the NHL (at least 50 total games played) with a higher combined SV% than Antti Raanta. There are only 5 NHL goalies (with at least 50gp in that time) with a better GAA in that span.

The incentive is that both are on expiring contracts. Both can help Ottawa stay in games. Stepan is an excellent defensive forward and renowned leader. Viewed as a player/coach. Mentor for young players. When he’s healthy, Raanta puts up top 5 goalie numbers in the NHL.

These guys are tailor-made to help mitigate the mistakes skilled young players make. To help support them and keep them from getting too badly burned. Edmonton failed to insulate their young stars for many years. And it cost them dearly. Ottawa would be wise to avoid this trap. These young players need to learn how to win in the NHL.

It’s a good deal for Ottawa because it costs them nothing. They get the support, and mentorship from these vets for a season. Given that they have expiring contracts, Ottawa can decide to flip them for assets at the deadline, ride out the season with them, or sign them to cheaper contracts than they’re on.

This isn’t a typical dump of useless players. That’s why you don’t need draft pick now. You can actually get picks later. Teams will actually want these guys at the deadline. Because they’re good players. And they’re on expiring deals. And Ottawa can retain salary.

But teams like Toronto, Blues etc etc are looking to free up cap. They maybe a forced to trade players with terms who are younger and would fit Ottawas core much better. Im nice to say the chance of Raanta is healthy near deadline is 50/50 and and Stephan, yeah you maybe could get a decent return.
But say that Toronto needs to dump either Johnson or Kerfoot, I think Ottawa would rather take that player, Blues need to o something to sign Pietro. List is long, why burn all that cap on something that would not be helpful on the long term for the roster.
Ottawa is holding all the cards togheter with Devils. Time to pay up if you want space.
Marlaeu at 6 costed a first. Bickell was attached with TT. Jets lost Armia for 1 year of Mason. 12 mil oh boy Ottawa is getting really nothing

 

[TSA0402]

I just don't really see how this helps the Sens and their rebuild much.

Taking a good amount of cap for a good goalie with tons of injury concerns. Veteran presence? Just sign a UFA.

 

[Mosby]

What UFA of Stepan calibre are you getting for $2 mil cash? Or goalie for that matter?

When you consider where the team is standings wise, arena location, weather, Canadian taxes, off-ice BS, that's a tough sell to UFAs. Suppose you could overpay, but that seems unlikely because Melnyk, and even if you do overpay, you're only getting poor value.

 

[Langdon Alger]

This makes no sense from an Ottawa POV. If you want us to do you a favour by taking Stepan and Hossa, at least make it worth our while. Throw in a draft pick.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Fax the trade in. Think Arizona will have to take two contracts back to even out the slots.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

As a Canes fan, I would be highly interested in Raanta and Hinostroza.

 

[MisterT]

Also worth noting how effective Antti Raanta has been, especially since his first year in NY onward. Among goalies with 140 GP since 2015-16:

1. Raanta, 147 GP, .923
2. Bishop, 243 GP, .922
3. Kuemper, 152 GP, .921
4. Lehner, 215 GP, .920
5. Grubauer, 154 GP, .920
6. Vasilevskiy, 244, GP, .919
7. Crawford, 220 GP, .919
8. Gibson, 261 GP, .918
9. Rask, 270 GP, .917
10. Hellebuyck, 270 GP, .917

Yeah there's been some durability issues, although some of that has been fluky injuries (car accident, skate blade coming off his skate, etc.), but Raanta is a phenomenal goalie, all for $2.25M in real dollars. You're lucky to get a decent backup via UFA for that price these days. Arizona would love to keep him, but it just seems unlikely given current cap constraints and the emergence of Kuemper.

Hard to have a valid comparison when some of the other have played almost 80% more games. The wear and tear of a season doesn't impact Raanta or Kuemper as they never have to endure it being on IL for half of each season.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Stepan is on the decline. He'll walk as a UFA in 2021 anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

Hinostroza and Tierney are a wash (I prefer Tierney). So basically Ottawa does this to add Raanta who will be a UFA summer 2021.

 

[howkie]

What UFA of Stepan calibre are you getting for $2 mil cash? Or goalie for that matter?

When you consider where the team is standings wise, arena location, weather, Canadian taxes, off-ice BS, that's a tough sell to UFAs. Suppose you could overpay, but that seems unlikely because Melnyk, and even if you do overpay, you're only getting poor value.

3 years from now when we look back at the trade, Ottawa sold 12 mil cap, what did they get in return?
For taking Bickells contract, Canes got an almost PPG winger, and they gave up a second and a third. That is good return for taking cap dump.
Montreal took Steve Mason 1 year deal, and have a middle-winger in still playing useful minutes for them.
Canes for 6 mil one year cap dump, got either have a top-4 defender in Skjei (that is what Rangers fans told us for year that Skjei is) or rather decent prospect, depending how you count that 1 rounder.
Hmm what did Arizona get for taking Datsuks contract for just 1 year……...

 

[Mosby]

All good examples but don’t forget the others. Arizona got Hinostroza and Oesterle for three years of Hossa.

Got to pick Chychrun for taking on Datsyuk but also gave up a first and a second.

 

[rt]

3 years from now when we look back at the trade, Ottawa sold 12 mil cap, what did they get in return?
For taking Bickells contract, Canes got an almost PPG winger, and they gave up a second and a third. That is good return for taking cap dump.
Montreal took Steve Mason 1 year deal, and have a middle-winger in still playing useful minutes for them.
Canes for 6 mil one year cap dump, got either have a top-4 defender in Skjei (that is what Rangers fans told us for year that Skjei is) or rather decent prospect, depending how you count that 1 rounder.
Hmm what did Arizona get for taking Datsuks contract for just 1 year……...

Ton of revisionism here.

 

[rt]

Fax the trade in. Think Arizona will have to take two contracts back to even out the slots.

Carcone would make sense. No NHL future and a 2way contract.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I'm sure the Sens could deal Raantta away for pick(s)

Stepan can be a deadline trade.

Hinostroza,not sure of his contract status could be a good, long-term depth player.

Hoss retires a sen.

Does Arizona need to shed cap ?

 

[TGWL]

They should do this just because Stepan is maybe the most well liked guy in any locker room. With one of the best personalities you'll find.